Weapon placement with kids around?

[Firepower!]

Hello
This might concern those of us who have kids and are worried about how to keep their weapons handy, while also keeping is out of the reach of kids.

I would like to know what measures or techniques have you developed to over come this issue.

I have either my Aks74U, M4A1 or Ak47 hanging from bed post high enough to be out of reach, and safety always on because a gun that is not in my possession is not in my control.

[MTT TL]

Pistol on the hip.

HD Rifle/ shotgun, open storage, condition 3. This won't work for everybody but it has worked for us for as long they have been alive (12 years now).

[pax]

During the day: Pistol on the hip. Other guns inside a locked safe designed to deter an adult thief.

At bedtime: bedroom door locked, pistol and accoutrements in fanny pack inside small fast-access safe with door open. If a kid calls for me, shut the door to the safe before opening bedroom door. If a knock on the front door or other household disturbance, don fanny pack then robe. In either case, never unlock or open bedroom door unless gun is secure.

Having raised five boys, I'm of the firm opinion that "childproof" anything is a sick joke, and "out of the kids' reach" is a fantasy engaged in by the sorts of foolish people who are convinced that their children never did figure out where the Christmas presents are stored or get into them prematurely.

pax

[threegun]

My States law says its unlawful to store or leave a firearm in any place within the reach or easy access of a minor so be careful. That said there are companies making full length gun lockers with push button or finger print recognizing locks. You can also use trigger locking devises.

I overcame this situation as follows.........kept firearms high until they started climbing.........then locked away long guns and bought a pair of stack-on gun lockers (push button entry). One for the bedroom and one for the livingroom........pistola in each.

Now boys are 10 and 13. They are regulars at the range and safer than most of the adults I baby sit as a Range Officer. They are part of the family security now they just don't have access to the guns. Mom or I can grant access in seconds however if an emergency every happened.

[MTT TL]

Five is a basketball team.You have very different dynamics than with 2.

I am not so sure I would trust my hip with five.

[dabigguns357]

As said by others I carry all the time on my hip when awake.Other than that i keep all guns in my bedroom or in my safe.My wife and i lock our bedroom door so no little ones get to anything they shouldn't,and between my wife and i there is always someone home.At bed time we keep the door locked behind us and turn on night vision camera's that are connected to my tv from both inside and outside.I have gone throught and put locks on everthing from our bedroom door to every cabnet and drawer in the kitchen and both bathrooms plus i have put up kiddy gates on both the entranceways to the kitchen.Kids are like dogs,what you think they can't get to,they will find a way and will end up getting you or them hurt.

The biggest thing that we both do is when we leave,we lock everything up in the safe and take both keys with us.When we are home both our sets of keys are our pocket.

[pax]

MTT ~



Rifle team, actually. Gotta keep it on topic!

pax

[Firepower!]

threegun, i like your idea about keeping them high enough until they start climbing, and that is what I meant when I mentioned hanging my assualt rifle from high bedpost. I think pax made a little stretch there calling all foolish who did this cuz I certainly wont keeping tthe hanging measure in effect when kids start to the age when the can climb. The problem is how will my strategy change then. I have many dman guns that these storage devices i see wont do. Perhaps, i should dedicate a large space of about size of two rooms in that house for them that remains locked up except for my on person weapon?

[mrnkc130]

When my son gets a little older I plan on buying on of those small pistol easy open safes that you can bolt to your night stand. right now we use the door locked weapon on the night stand condition 3.

[Dannyl]

HI,
I have a 10 YO boy who goes shooting with me twice a month, sometimes more often so his curiousity for firearms is fairly well catered for.

Regardless of that, he is a kid so unless a firearm is on me or at arms reach it is locked in a safe. ( the same applies to my wife's firearms off course)

All live ammo and reloading components are also locked away.

Brgds,

Danny

[threegun]

Firepower, Yup......a three year old isn't climbing up an in my closets top shelf.......pretty safe.....now perhaps at 4 plus he can start stacking chairs to get up there......just error on the side of caution.

There was a company that made a locker that mounted in the wall between studs and fit flush. A few sizes to accommodate pistols or rifles. Very fast to open and they hold several weapons each. No key needed.

I chose the pistol lockers because i have hardened my home to the point that I will probably have the time I need to get my big safe open for the Ar's and shottys if I need them. Alarm system, Burglar Bars, motion lights, DVR w/ Ir cameras etc.

Dannyl, How true this statement....

I have a 10 YO boy who goes shooting with me twice a month, sometimes more often so his curiosity for firearms is fairly well catered for.

.........Plus they know 1. how to safely handle firearms 2. the power they posses 3. how to load and unload.

I have no doubt that I can leave any of my weapons anywhere in my home loaded and I wouldn't have an issue from my boys however I still error on the side of caution and the law.

They each have there own guns and can handle them anytime they like by simply asking. Funny how rarely they ask since we also shoot regularly. I will say that since ammo has doubled in price I force my older boy to shoot his S&W 41 and my younger boy his Walther P-22 way more often LOL

[Skans]

Many of y'all won't like this, but this is what I do:

I keep it in a mini-vault in my night stand with the key in the lock. The biggest problem I had with the mini-vault is that the batteries last about 2-3 months before you need to replace them - they just ain't going to get replaced at that rate!! So, I just keep the key in the key-lock of the mini-vault. The kid knows about guns, knows not to go into my stuff, knows not to touch my guns and at this time has no interest in them. I'll have to continue to minitor this situation as kid gets older. The mini-vault would have been a perfect design if they could make it run on a battery that lasted 2 years instead of 2 months. Oh, BTW, mine takes 8 double A batteries - I'd have more money into batteries than ammo at that rate.

[pax]

Firepower,

No, I meant what I said. Trusting that the kids -- even very young kids -- can't or won't climb is dangerous and foolish. Sorry if that offends you.

Of course, I had a more extreme introduction to raising kids than most: our five boys were born less than six years apart (the oldest was 5 when the youngest was born). No twins, just the baby-a-year plan for five years running.

Every single one of my sons could climb out of the crib, unassisted, by the time they were 12 months old. Two of them did so at 10 months.

Every single one of them could defeat "childproof" cabinet locks from the time they were 10 or 11 months old. Every one of them could defeat a "childproof" babygate by the time they were a year old, although they had different strategies for doing so (the oldest was clever, and used a toy as a prybar; one of the middle boys just ran full-tilt into the gate and crashed it down; one could roll into it from the bottom and lever it out from there. The other two simply climbed over). There wasn't a cabinet in the house that they couldn't get into, except the ones we locked with a real lock.

I walked into my kitchen one afternoon during naptime and found my redhead, my middle son, sitting on top of the refrigerator. He had pulled out the drawers on the kitchen cabinet to form a "stairway" to the counter, then stacked the toaster and our breadbox so he could clamber up to reach the top of the fridge. He was 23 months old.

So don't tell me that a three year old isn't smart enough to use a chair to climb. If he wants to get there badly enough, he'll find a way.

Insulting as it is to say so, not everyone's kids are actually perfect. Smart parents know better than to really believe that their children will always behave themselves perfectly in their absence. It's kind of like -- well, a few years ago, a friend of mine spent the night in the living room at another friend's house. That family had a big dog, and as soon as the family left the room, the dog jumped up on the couch and spread out. Whenever the one of the family members came down the hall, the dog would slither off the couch and curl up innocently on the floor. My friend thought it was funny, watching the dog sneak up and down off the furniture as the family came in & out of the living room. In the morning, the woman of the family mentioned that they'd be purchasing a new couch "now that we've finally got the dog trained to stay off the furniture." She really thought they had!

Anyway, I'm a big believer in teaching kids about firearms, satisfying their curiosity and encouraging them to understand what it's all about. I'm all for taking them to the range so they know how much damage a firearm can do, and again to disarm their curiosity. But I think it's a very, very foolish person who relies on that training alone to keep their children out of trouble. The stakes are simply too high.

If you love your children, don't bet your children's lives on them being either stupid or perfect. Lock up your firearms with a lock designed to defeat a determined adult.

pax

[Rangefinder]

Well, my daughter isn't goig to be a worry yet, since she's steaming-fresh outa the "oven" as of last week---I have some time to get her aquainted with the do and don't issues. My son, however, is 13 now. And grew up with guns and swords and armor everywhere. Until he was about six, he thought it was strange when people DIDN'T have a museum in their house. So it's all perspective. There's no mystery for him. He knows a lot about many things on my walls, and if he doesn't, I get questions---lots of questions. For shooting specificly, he's been shooting off my lap since he was just a little guy. He's safer in knowledge and practice than most adults I know. I have no reason in the world to lock my guns away from him--honestly, as much time as he's spent with some of them, they're as much his as they are mine. The general rule of the house is--"There are two reasons for you to pick up any of the guns when I'm not around: 1)someone is breaking in (we have procedures for this scenerio in place). 2) The house is on fire (he knows which ones to grab first).

Don't hide the topic of firearms from your kids. That forces them to rely on what they see from movies and video games. Those are really bad teachers. Disarm the mystery. Do it safely, but don't let curiosity fuel ambition.

[mrclean77]

I think I fall somewhere in between pax and some others

my daughter just turned 2 in July, but is kinda big for her age & is getting larger and wiser (and trickier) every day

I am certain she cannot get to the very top shelf in my closet (I have to stretch and am 6'4" with ape arms), but this will all be a moot point by the time she is 3 - I plan on having at least the small, 1-2 handguns safe



I still believe, currently (today), she cannot reach the pistola, but I am not leaving this to chance very much longer, she is not quite the accomplished escape artist as the 'Pack o Pax', but everything she HAS done/figured out, she did it well before we thought she would (being able to open the fridge by herself was quite a change in the house dynamic )

[howwie]

I just had my first 2 months ago Little boy, so I am really taking notes here! He cant's hold his head up quite yet so we're saffe for now...but I know it won't be long. Right now I just have the shotgun under the bed and pistol in the nightstand. But I am in the process of changing habbits, so please keep the postings coming, it has been very helpful thus far.

[rodwhaincamo]

A friend interested in a pistol for HD is of the mind to go with an auto since the magazine can easily be kept out of reach, but easily (to some degree) ready for use. Makes some sense I suppose. Handgun can be kept anywhere. Wouldn't work so well in an imediate threat situation, but over all a way to work it. I wouldn't/don't carry around the house (mine are very little), but may be the best way to be secure and ready when the time comes to be concerned about little hands and curious minds. Even a firearm kept up high can be had by a child. For that maybe a trigger lock with the key hidden but easy to get to and use? That is the hard part. Easy to get to and use, but out of harms way....

[Dannyl]

Skans,
Sorry, but how long before your child figures how to open the lock that has a key in it?

When I was a very young boy my dad had two break-top shotguns that he used for wing-shooting on odd occassions.
He thought that he was careful by stripping them to 3 main components (stock, barrel and fore-end) and placing the parts in different places in the garage.


What he did not think about was that I was always with him when he did that , and I must have been younger 7 by the tim I figured how to assemble one of them. he came home to find me playing with his shotgun, a mexican hat on my head and his cartridge belt accross my chest. lucky that he had tought me that guns may only be loaded when you are about to shoot and I knew that I was not going to shoot "for real".
Some 40 years later I still remember the hiding I got and I also remember that kids have an uncanny ability to surprise you with what they can do, usually earlier in life than you would have expected. ( this belongs also in the thread about "stupid things I did with guns")

Brgds,

Danny

[Parapliers]

Seems like everyone agrees that some special consideration is in order where there is the likelihood that children will be present. Shouldn't we consider that there is always that chance and that an unforeseen event with unknown kids with unknown upbringing is even more problematic?
Who hasn't had to endure a drop in visit by relatives with unruly children? I'd rather not have to run around my house hoping that I have accounted for all the firearms or components. I have been surprised by adults who have no concept of propriety who need the same oversight that a two year old requires. For example, if my boss came over for dinner I would have to childproof my house because he is an idiot.

[sophijo]

Mine are locked up except for carry. Bed-time unlocked with access to loaded pistol and shotgun. Having said that; I grew up on a farm and firearms were kept on the enclosed porch in an unlocked closet, with ammo. Dangerous machinery and animals all over the place. Kids learned quick to pay attention and to "mind". Ofcourse my bus driver, a WWII Vet with one eye, carried a shotgun on the bus during pheasant season and would take a pop once in awhile. If he got a bird the Principal would announce it on the intercom and we'd all cheer! At the end of every schoolday the Safety Patrol would lower the flag, fold it, and return it to the office. It wasn't uncommon for a local to pull to the curb, get out of the car and stand at attention until the Flag was folded. Different world isn't it?

[WW2]

I have a locked cabinet for my guns. Inside the guns are unloaded and locked inside their soft cases (okay, a scissor can defeat that lock, but the damage would alert me that someone had been messing when the ought not to be messing). If someone gets in to the cabinet and cuts the locks off the cases, they then need to get past the trigger locks. After that, on the shotgun, they need to find the tool that unlocks the safety. Sure would like that locking safety on the rifle! The tool is not in the cabinet but is locked up with the ammo.

So after getting past all of these locks, they need to find the case with the ammo and defeat its locks. Only then would they have a fully loaded firearm.

All keys are on my keyring on my person at all times.

[Firepower!]

Some very interesting posts. I must confess that I am not an experienced father so I know very little about the scenarios pax has illustrated.

I dont have access to quality cabinets that are made for firearms here. I will have to devise a startegy soon for firearms and for kids trying to stack up chairs and climb to reach for something. Both are dangerous.

The firearms are laying all over the place. I didnt even factor in the kids of my brother and sisters running about now and then.

[kazanski612]

I highly recommend "Gunproof your Children" by Mas. Ayoob (http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Proof-Chil.../dp/0936279052)

I disagree with one point he makes, however - he recommends teaching your children to unload any gun they're familiar with that they come across at, say, someone else's house. That scares me. I don't want my kid touching a friend's Dad's gun. But the rest of the book is awesome and eye-opening (and it's really short, which is good for ADD types like me).

But what Pax is saying is gold - the risk is too high not to take every precaution around your children (and for the record, my EDC is on my hip all day, every day and I have a 2-year old).

Stay safe.

[koolminx]

My children (my daughter especially) are acquainted with ALL of my gun's and there is only one that's not kept in the safe or in the back of a closet at any given moment, and they know what to do, which is leave it the hell alone, but she also knows how to handle it and to unload it should it be discovered by a snoopy outsider. {I.E. a school mate where they shouldn't be while playing at our home}

Other than that there's no need to be concerned at my home.

[Piper Cub]

OP Hello
This might concern those of us who have kids and are worried about how to keep their weapons handy, while also keeping is out of the reach of kids.
I must confess that I am not an experienced father so I know very little about the scenarios pax has illustrated.
NO KIDS?