Cleaning a Hawken

[Cascade1911]

TC kit gun I put together in 1982. At the time the conventional wisdom was ivory flakes in the hottest water possible. Kind of a pain and messy but its what I've always used and it does work. Just wondering what others are using to clean fixed breach long guns. I use pyrodex and shoot both patched balls and sabots.

[Rifleman1776]

Some folks make a big ritual and mystery out of cleaning traditional muzzle loaders. All it takes is time and being thurough. You can remove the barrel from the rifle since it is a patened breech. Just put the breech end in a bucket about half filled with soapy water. What kind of soap is not real important, I usually use dishwasher soap. Then put a double or triple thickness of patching on the jag of your ramrod. You may have to wet it to get in the barrel. Once in, simply work up and down several times. The soap solution will be pulled in at the nipple. Make sure you do the full length of the barrel. When done repeat with clear water. Drain barrel, swab with dry patches, oil with your favorite protective oil. I use WD-40 for short term, RIG for long term. It takes work, not midnight full moon incantations like some might suggest.

[Pahoo]

There are three basic cleaning methods;

1. Soap and water as Rifleman1776 and yourself, have listed.
2. Solvent washes; again, much like the soap and water process.
3. A combination of both.

"What I do"
Personally, I stopped using soap and water years ago as I no longer use any Sulphur based propellants. Before I leave the range, I give it a good washdown or coating of ballistol. When I get back to the shop, I pull the barrel and completely submerge it in a verticle mounted PVC pipe, filled with mineral spirits and NO, mineral spirits will not remove the blueing. Being completely submerged, nothing bad is going to happen and that starts the cleaning process. I can let it sit for a couple of days and complete the cleaning whenever I get time. I only remove and clean the nipple about every fourth cleaning. .....

For your propellant, I might suggest doing the soap and water, followed by the mineral spirits. You will have to measure it's performance. .....


Be Safe !!!

[hongrn]

Speaking of cleaning, does anyone recommend rinsing the gun with rubbing alcohol to dry off the water and prevent rusting? Thanks.

[4V50 Gary]

I use hot soap and water. It worked then, it'll work now.

Be careful about WD-40. It displaces water, but so will a hot oven or even residual heat if you use boiling water when you clean your gun. WD-40 leaves a film, which is why Remington teaches its pupils at armorers' school not to use it.

As for alcohol, I've never used it to remove the water. I simply dry and apply some modern oil.

[Pahoo]

Speaking of cleaning, does anyone recommend rinsing the gun with rubbing alcohol to dry off the water and prevent rusting? Thanks.

I do use Denatured Alcohol but ony in prep for loading and shooting. This helps to remove any oils that were applied during the previous cleaning.

The mineral spirits will evaporate any water, from the soap/water cleaning process. Keep in mind that mineral spirits is mostly water and will evaporate. ..


Be Safe !!!

[hongrn]

Which brand of mineral spirits do you use? Aren't they flammable and stink up the whole garage? Thanks.

Hong

[Hawg]

WD-40 leaves a film,

I've never seen any film. I've read the internet stories about how it leaves either a gunky residue or a kind of varnish and how it gums actions up. My dad used WD-40 religiously for many years and when he died his guns had no sludge or varnish buildup. There was no rust either even tho now it's well known WD-40 has little lube qualities and has no rust protection.

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks, HH. You beat me to it.
The film/gunk stuff is pure myth. But for those who want to believe it they won't change their minds. Facts have no effect on their misguided beliefs.
WD-40 is a pure petroleum product. But we digress from the thread. Sorry.

[skinsman]

Ok, I am fairly new to BP, and I was under the impression NOT to use oil as it dirties the gun faster, I have only been using bore butter. Am I screwing myself as far as rust goes???

[elnielsen]

I shoot a .58 cal Hawken rifle. When I clean it, I use a shotgun bore brush, it has brown colored plastic filaments and I can't remember if it's 12 or 20 gauge but its the right fit. I take the barrel off and nipple and dump it in the garage deep sink, pour in hot water and soap, and soak and punch the bore (I have goex and pyrodex, but the crusty knowledgeable guy with a shop in san jose cursed at the pyrodex and sold me something different so I'll use that. I ream the chamber and punch the bore and it seems to work very well. I then use the compressor to blast air through the bore to dry it up, then I punch it with an oil gooped patch. The shotgun bore brush does not deform over time.

With my 1851 Navy and Lemat, I remove the cylinder and the nipples from that. I put a bore brush on the end of a drill and I ream the crap out of em, I do that also with my Vaquero. Because there is always this gnarly ring of powder right where the end of the casing is, and its always the toughest to remove.

Back to the rifle. I got a ball stuck in the barrel at the last shoot, I had 6-7 friends round robin shooting that thing, the people love shooting black powder. I had just punched the bore with a patched jag (after like 25 rounds) and the next ball would not seat. It broke my original ramrod (forgot my fiberglass that day). The RSOs directed me to a gentleman also shooting black powder, also a .58 hawken. He shows me "look at this minute crack near your chamber.. you can unscrew the back end off the rifle and push that ball out with a ramrod." I didn't know that part removed, it looks seamless until you really take a good look. I have just been enlightened about KANO Silikriol. They can no longer sell it in Kalifornia, but I'm able to get some. It's not their "bore cleaner" but it is automotive super-wd40. I figure it's going to take that to get that removed, and then I'll finally be able to inspect my rifling. However I dont know that I'm going to go through with it as I get the feeling my method of cleanup gives me good results from visual inspection of the outside, as well as the feel of the balls and conicals as I load and seat them.

On that note, I think I'm going to go outside and cast some conicals.

[Hawg]

I don't use a brush. I use a 20 gauge bore mop in my 54 and 58 both.

[Pahoo]

Which brand of mineral spirits do you use? Aren't they flammable and stink up the whole garage? Thanks. Hong

Really doesn't make a big difference as to what brand you buy as they are all pretty much the same and yes, some are flammable but not very volital. just have to use the usual precautions. They do make a low odor type and a white milky type that is not volital. That said, I only use it in my shop and/or gargare and follow the usual precautions. .....

The RSOs directed me to a gentleman also shooting black powder, also a .58 hawken. He shows me "look at this minute crack near your chamber.. you can unscrew the back end off the rifle and push that ball out with a ramrod." I didn't know that part removed, it looks seamless until you really take a good look.

WOW !!! i have never had to remove a breech plug from a SideLock, nor do I care to. We routinely pull these with a screw jag and even create this dry-ball condition as a training excersize. Sabots are easier to pull. It's your rifle but personally, I would not remove the breech plug. I have seen more than my share of barrels where folks have tried and failed. Use a CO2 pusher if you have to. Don't be afraid to try the screw jag as it's really not all that hard but you have to prep the bore a bit. ....

Be Safe !!!

[Pahoo]

Ok, I am fairly new to BP, and I was under the impression NOT to use oil as it dirties the gun faster, I have only been using bore butter. Am I screwing myself as far as rust goes???

No, you're okay ... The point is to keep any pertochemicals out of the bore, while shooting and instead use a natural product, like bore butter. Now, after the cleaning and going into storage, you can and should use any good oil as bore butter is not a very good rust preventer again, we are talking about the bore. Now, in prep for shooting, swab as much of the oil out of the bore with denatured alcohol. Run a patched rod down the bore, pop a cap or two and capture the "Mud" onto your cleaning patch. .....


Be Safe !!!

[hongrn]

Thanks pahoo!

[Hawg]

WOW !!! i have never had to remove a breech plug from a SideLock, nor do I care to

Not to mention the fact that it may not line back up when you put it back in.

[mykeal]

Plain water. It worked then and it still works today.

[kwhi43]

Another vote for plain water. Been using it for over 40 years, dry then WD-40.

[skinsman]

Thanks for the info Pahoo. I have been using the bore butter for everything. In the bore that is. Ill use rem oil as I do my other firearms from now on.

[Hawg]

I use Bore Butter in my bores and chambers and I get no rust.

[Fingers McGee]

All I've ever shot in my single shot muzzleloaders is real blackpowder and all I've ever used to clean them for 20+ years is Hoppes #9 plus Blackpowder Solvent.

C&Bs and BP cartridge guns get Balistol, hot water and Birchwood Casey BP solvent.

[B.L.E.]

I'm another long time muzzleloader who uses plain water for cleanup followed by WD-40 to displace the water, followed by annointing the barrel with a more long lasting rust preventer like RIG.

[bedbugbilly]

+1 to just about everything that's been said - I've used hot water for years. If I'm not going to shoot for a while, I'll use hot water and maybe add a little soap. Afterwards, I make sure all is completely dry and then use WD-40. Everyone has their own opinions on that as stated - I've used it for years with no sludge or "gunk" - it works for me and I'm a whole lot happier spending the money on WD-40 than some high priced "speciality" product that doesn't work any better. If I can remove the barrel from the stock - such as a patent breech or a military musket by removing the barrel bands and tang screw, I put the breech in a bucket of water, use several patches on a jag and pump the ramrod up and down like a piston which will draw the water in and push it out the barrel. After initial cleaning, I change to fresh hot water. If it is a "pinned" barrel, I usually remove the lock and I have a plastic tube and adapter to screw in after removing the vent on a flinter or a nipple on a percussion. At the end of a shooting season (NSSA when I shot that), I'd remove the breech plug and do a complete cleaning before putting away for the winter. I do have to say though, that on many, many originals, once built, the breechplug was never removed. My grandfather was born in 1867 and he used a half stock plains style rifle in 45 cal. - he never removed the breechplug and he cleaned it with hot water. As stated - "it sworked then and it works now". If it ain't broke, why fix it? I shoot rifle and smoothbore - before shooting, I run several patches down the barrel to take out any oil/WD-40. I always put in a powder charge and shoot it off in the air or down range without a projectile. I then run a spit patch down the barrel - then load. On my rifles (round ball), I run a spit patch down the barrel between shots. This is what works best for me and for the rifles I shoot. It keeps the fouling down and makes loading easier - in the long run - helps maintain my accuracy. Everyone has their own metods though - it really boils down to what works best for you and the weapon you're shooting.

[Cascade1911]

Thanks all for the reply's. I was hoping that there had been a magic cleaning method invented in across the years but I guess I'll stick to my hot water and ivory flakes cause as BedBugBilly's Grandpa said: "if it ain't broke, why fix it".

As an aside, I've had limited success with pulling dry balls with a screw, more often than not the screw strips. When that happens my preferred method is to remove the nipple, poke powder into the chamber (doesn't take much) replace the nipple, place a cap and pop the ball out.