Let's talk over/unders

Sundance · April 4, 2002, 08:25 AM

I have several shotguns in my collection.

I have a semi-auto Rem 1187, 3 pump 870s, and a Stoeger SxS Coach...all 12 gauge

I am interested in an O/U.

I don't care to spend a few bucks on it, but I hate to spend a mint if I don't have to.

Please recommend some SPECIFIC makes and models for me to look at.

Not just Ruger Red Label but which particular Ruger Red Label...

I know of the Ruger, the Browning, and the Stoeger...any others.

I am new to the O/U thing...please speak slowly and in layman terms.

Thanks!!!

K80Geoff · April 4, 2002, 09:15 AM

Best bet for quality and looks are the Browning Citori and Beretta 686/687 models. You can't go wrong with one of these guns. Picking one is a matter of what feels better to you. I personally prefer the Berettas but know many shooters who swear by browning. Look at a few and try to arrange to shoot as many as possible. Only you will know the right gun for you.

There are many previously owned guns out there that are reasonable in price.

One overlooked gun is the Belgian Browning (Not the same as the Citori). Used guns are available through specialty dealers and are high quality for B & B prices. In europe the same guns go for 3 to 4X the prices they go for here. Do some research on Belgian Brownings and check out websites like:

www.gunshop.com

Also pick up a copy of Double Gun Journal and look through the ads. Don't be intimidated by the prices for Purdys and Holland and Hollands. There are plenty of quality guns for sale that won't require a second mortgage.

Choosing guns is like finding the right woman, it takes time.

K80Geoff · April 4, 2002, 09:18 AM

Best bet for quality and looks are the Browning Citori and Beretta 686/687 models. You can't go wrong with one of these guns. Picking one is a matter of what feels better to you. I personall prefer the Berettas but know many shooters who swear by browning. Look at a few and try to arrange to shoot as many as possible. Only you will know the right gun for you.

There are many previously owned guns out there that are reasonable in price.

One overlooked gun is the Belgian Browning (Not the same as the Citori). Used guns are available through specialty dealers and are high quality for B & B prices. In europe the same guns go for 3 to 4X the prices they go for here. Do some research on Belgian Brownings and check out websites like:

www.gunshop.com

Also pick up a copy of Double Gun Journal and look through the ads. don't be intimidated by the prices for Purdys and Holland and Hollands. There are pelnty of quality guns for sale that won't require a second mortgage.

Choosing guns is like finding the right woman, it takes time.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · April 4, 2002, 10:33 AM

SPECIFICLY---

I have a Ruger Red Label 12ga--26 in barrels and pistol grip stock.

In the next few days I'm going to purchase a Beretta 687 Silver Pidgeon 20ga---26 in barrels.

A lot of people prefer the 28 in barrels----but I'm a shorter guy---so the 26 in barrelled ones work better for me---lighter and handier too.

FUSILADE · April 4, 2002, 10:34 AM

....Don't buy a Citori, there made in Japan. BUY AMERICAN........... Buy European if you have to. I know Rugers are kind of heavy with their investment cast revievers. You can't go wrong with a Belgium Browning. Unless your waterfoul hunting in a blind using steel shot. Then you don't want a O@U at all.

Bud1 · April 4, 2002, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Choosing guns is like finding the right woman, it takes time.

Geoff is right. I'm still wondering how I ended up with a cheap semiauto shotgun and a "Purdy" wife.

Sorry about that.

TaxPhd · April 4, 2002, 11:25 AM

Game (skeet, Clays, etc.) gun or field gun?

For a Game gun, look at the Browning XS or Beretta 682 Gold series. The 682 Gold has been replaced by the Gold E, but the pre E guns are very nice if you can find one.

Best to shoot a lot of different ones if you have the opportunity. At a minimum, try to at least shoulder and swing the guns in the shop. Fit is everything, and people differ so much in their size/shape/build that it is very diffiult to recommend one gun over another.

My buddies Win. 101 beats the bejeezus out of face. The same load in my 682 Gold is a real pussycat. Only difference is fit.

Berettas 686/687 series are nice, wthout the higher price tag.

Does Beretta still do the Essential series?

huntsman · April 4, 2002, 12:58 PM

If you want an O/U cheaper then the B&B's take a look at American Arms silver II. It's an Italian made with ejectors , not a gun for big time target shooting but a decent fieldgun. I had one in 16 gauge that was nice. if you want a peak at one go to www.countrygunshop.com new shotguns.

Dave McC · April 6, 2002, 06:17 AM

Doubles, either SxS or O/U, can be a quagmire for you and your discretionary income. There's cheap, there's good and rarely the twain meet. There's also expensive junk, to muddy the waters further.

Most Brownings and Berettas are not junk. same for SKB, Weatherby, and the Winchester 101, all made in Nippon.

The best deals oft are not in gunshops, but can be found on the bulletin boards at local ranges.

Go slowly here, take your time and try out a few if you can before buying. Use fairly light loads like target loads, and see how it shoots for you.

Good luck and good shooting....

TaxPhd · April 6, 2002, 01:26 PM

huntsman,

The American Arms guns used to be produced by the now defunct Spanish conglomerate DIARM. I didn't know production had moved to Italy. Do you know who is making them?

bluwing26 · April 6, 2002, 01:27 PM

Sundance- You're in the right place to get info on an o/u. The knowledge and experience on this site is some of the best I've found. They're on the ball when they say look at and if possible shoot every gun in the price range that you have. I have a Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon II sporting with 30" barrels. I spent several months reading brochures from manufacturers, reading posts on this site, and visiting every gun shop and show I could get to before I found what I wanted. I like the Brownings and SKB's, in fact the SKB's I looked at fit me almost as well as the Beretta's did. Sorry I can't be more specific as models and what not, just look and try as many as you can. That way you won't regret your purchase because you know that there isn't an o/u that you overlooked.

huntsman · April 6, 2002, 11:17 PM

taxphd, the one I bought was in 95-96 it was made in val de-trompia area . I believe this area is made up of small workshops that specialize in certain parts of the gun which is latter assembled and sold as different brands. I'm not completey sure but I think the low end beretta's are made this way.

TaxPhd · April 7, 2002, 02:16 PM

Thanks, huntsman!

Sid Post · April 7, 2002, 03:31 PM

Let me chime in and repeat what is mentioned above. FIT is the important thing! A more expensive shotgun that doesn't fit your body type as well as the "cheaper" competition won't serve you well.

Shoes are sold in different sizes for a reason. The same holds true for shotguns. I know it sounds strange because your local gun shop doesn't ask you if want a small, medium or, large. In my case I personally like the aesthetics of the Browning O&U's better then the Beretta's but, the Beretta's stocks are cut to fit me while the Brownings are not.

Unless you are going to get fitted for a shotgun and have the stock made to fit your body profile, focus on well known quality brands with a long term reputation for good quality firearms. Then find the one (or series) that fits you best.

Depending on how big your are, strong you are and, what you intend to do with the shotgun, you may find a specific reason to get a barrel length unusually long or short. In general most people will get a 26 or 28 inch barrel length. If the barrels are light, consider the 28 inch. A little more weight out front will slow your swing down a little but, will help your track and steady the shotgun.

Brand and specifics? In new shotguns, the Beretta and Browning offerings are the way to go. Well known companies with a long and well earned reputation for quality. If you are new to O&U's, stick to the $1K to $2K price range until you really understand what you are buying. That price range offers a lot of value for what you spend. If you have a reputable dealer or very knowledgable friend to help, a used shotgun is a viable option as well. If you don't know what to look for, don't buy one off the street (gun shows, newspaper ads, etc.).

Have you considered a 20 gauge or, are you only looking for a 12 gauge? A 20 gauge can be a significantly lighter weight shotgun if you are going to lug it around the field a lot and shoot it very little. Features to look for? Get a current Browning and Beretta product catalog and educate yourself on the current options for back bored barrels, sport clays features, etc. to ease the buying decision.

In the end, it doesn't matter how much it cost or what features it has if it doesn't fit your body and you can't (or won't) shoot it.

Chuck Graber · April 7, 2002, 09:28 PM

Taxphd,
American Arms is now out of business. Some of their assets were bought out by Tristar Sporting Arms Ltd. Most of the Italian AA guns were made by Stephano Fausti who is now making guns for Traditions Performance Firearms.

The Spanish AAs were made by Zabala Hermanos, Lanber, Indesal, Grulla, and the Diarm consortium.

All of these ran the gamut from solid shooters to near junk.

Chuck Graber

m14nut · April 7, 2002, 09:53 PM

Well, since you mentioned Stoeger, I got their Condor2 about 5 years ago[2 triggers, no screw ins] and although it may not be the purdiest gun in the rack, it FITS me for the length of pull, and FUNCTIONS perfectly.
Yea, it's no Red Label or Citori, but for busting the Jersey hardwoods chasing birds and some occaisonal skeets it's a darn good gun .02cents please!

April 4, 2002, 08:25 AM	#1
Sundance Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 836	Let's talk over/unders I have several shotguns in my collection. I have a semi-auto Rem 1187, 3 pump 870s, and a Stoeger SxS Coach...all 12 gauge I am interested in an O/U. I don't care to spend a few bucks on it, but I hate to spend a mint if I don't have to. Please recommend some SPECIFIC makes and models for me to look at. Not just Ruger Red Label but which particular Ruger Red Label... I know of the Ruger, the Browning, and the Stoeger...any others. I am new to the O/U thing...please speak slowly and in layman terms. Thanks!!!

April 4, 2002, 09:15 AM	#2
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	Best bet for quality and looks are the Browning Citori and Beretta 686/687 models. You can't go wrong with one of these guns. Picking one is a matter of what feels better to you. I personally prefer the Berettas but know many shooters who swear by browning. Look at a few and try to arrange to shoot as many as possible. Only you will know the right gun for you. There are many previously owned guns out there that are reasonable in price. One overlooked gun is the Belgian Browning (Not the same as the Citori). Used guns are available through specialty dealers and are high quality for B & B prices. In europe the same guns go for 3 to 4X the prices they go for here. Do some research on Belgian Brownings and check out websites like: www.gunshop.com Also pick up a copy of Double Gun Journal and look through the ads. Don't be intimidated by the prices for Purdys and Holland and Hollands. There are plenty of quality guns for sale that won't require a second mortgage. Choosing guns is like finding the right woman, it takes time. __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

April 4, 2002, 09:18 AM	#3
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	Best bet for quality and looks are the Browning Citori and Beretta 686/687 models. You can't go wrong with one of these guns. Picking one is a matter of what feels better to you. I personall prefer the Berettas but know many shooters who swear by browning. Look at a few and try to arrange to shoot as many as possible. Only you will know the right gun for you. There are many previously owned guns out there that are reasonable in price. One overlooked gun is the Belgian Browning (Not the same as the Citori). Used guns are available through specialty dealers and are high quality for B & B prices. In europe the same guns go for 3 to 4X the prices they go for here. Do some research on Belgian Brownings and check out websites like: www.gunshop.com Also pick up a copy of Double Gun Journal and look through the ads. don't be intimidated by the prices for Purdys and Holland and Hollands. There are pelnty of quality guns for sale that won't require a second mortgage. Choosing guns is like finding the right woman, it takes time. __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

April 4, 2002, 10:33 AM	#4
Omaha-BeenGlockin Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,183	SPECIFICLY--- I have a Ruger Red Label 12ga--26 in barrels and pistol grip stock. In the next few days I'm going to purchase a Beretta 687 Silver Pidgeon 20ga---26 in barrels. A lot of people prefer the 28 in barrels----but I'm a shorter guy---so the 26 in barrelled ones work better for me---lighter and handier too. __________________ I take the leech that's bleeding me Can't stop to save my soul I take the leash that's leading me -------Metallica

April 4, 2002, 10:34 AM	#5
FUSILADE Junior Member Join Date: March 28, 2002 Location: The hoosier state. Posts: 9	OVER AND UNDER ....Don't buy a Citori, there made in Japan. BUY AMERICAN........... Buy European if you have to. I know Rugers are kind of heavy with their investment cast revievers. You can't go wrong with a Belgium Browning. Unless your waterfoul hunting in a blind using steel shot. Then you don't want a O@U at all. __________________ Ride shoot straight and speek the truth.

April 4, 2002, 11:25 AM	#7
TaxPhd Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 534	Game (skeet, Clays, etc.) gun or field gun? For a Game gun, look at the Browning XS or Beretta 682 Gold series. The 682 Gold has been replaced by the Gold E, but the pre E guns are very nice if you can find one. Best to shoot a lot of different ones if you have the opportunity. At a minimum, try to at least shoulder and swing the guns in the shop. Fit is everything, and people differ so much in their size/shape/build that it is very diffiult to recommend one gun over another. My buddies Win. 101 beats the bejeezus out of face. The same load in my 682 Gold is a real pussycat. Only difference is fit. Berettas 686/687 series are nice, wthout the higher price tag. Does Beretta still do the Essential series? __________________ TaxPhd "Those who live by the sword are probably pretty f***ing good at it." "Instructions for a successful gunfight: Front Sight, Press Trigger, repeat as necessary." - B. Braxton

April 4, 2002, 12:58 PM	#8
huntsman Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2000 Location: ohio Posts: 121	If you want an O/U cheaper then the B&B's take a look at American Arms silver II. It's an Italian made with ejectors , not a gun for big time target shooting but a decent fieldgun. I had one in 16 gauge that was nice. if you want a peak at one go to www.countrygunshop.com new shotguns. __________________ cause he liked the quiet clean country livin and 20 more years slipped away -JB

April 6, 2002, 06:17 AM	#9
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Doubles, either SxS or O/U, can be a quagmire for you and your discretionary income. There's cheap, there's good and rarely the twain meet. There's also expensive junk, to muddy the waters further. Most Brownings and Berettas are not junk. same for SKB, Weatherby, and the Winchester 101, all made in Nippon. The best deals oft are not in gunshops, but can be found on the bulletin boards at local ranges. Go slowly here, take your time and try out a few if you can before buying. Use fairly light loads like target loads, and see how it shoots for you. Good luck and good shooting....

April 6, 2002, 01:26 PM	#10
TaxPhd Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 534	huntsman, The American Arms guns used to be produced by the now defunct Spanish conglomerate DIARM. I didn't know production had moved to Italy. Do you know who is making them? __________________ TaxPhd "Those who live by the sword are probably pretty f***ing good at it." "Instructions for a successful gunfight: Front Sight, Press Trigger, repeat as necessary." - B. Braxton

April 6, 2002, 01:27 PM	#11
bluwing26 Junior Member Join Date: June 17, 2001 Location: North Central Iowa Posts: 11	Sundance- You're in the right place to get info on an o/u. The knowledge and experience on this site is some of the best I've found. They're on the ball when they say look at and if possible shoot every gun in the price range that you have. I have a Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon II sporting with 30" barrels. I spent several months reading brochures from manufacturers, reading posts on this site, and visiting every gun shop and show I could get to before I found what I wanted. I like the Brownings and SKB's, in fact the SKB's I looked at fit me almost as well as the Beretta's did. Sorry I can't be more specific as models and what not, just look and try as many as you can. That way you won't regret your purchase because you know that there isn't an o/u that you overlooked. __________________

April 6, 2002, 11:17 PM	#12
huntsman Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2000 Location: ohio Posts: 121	taxphd, the one I bought was in 95-96 it was made in val de-trompia area . I believe this area is made up of small workshops that specialize in certain parts of the gun which is latter assembled and sold as different brands. I'm not completey sure but I think the low end beretta's are made this way. __________________ cause he liked the quiet clean country livin and 20 more years slipped away -JB

April 7, 2002, 02:16 PM	#13
TaxPhd Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 534	Thanks, huntsman! __________________ TaxPhd "Those who live by the sword are probably pretty f***ing good at it." "Instructions for a successful gunfight: Front Sight, Press Trigger, repeat as necessary." - B. Braxton

April 7, 2002, 03:31 PM	#14
Sid Post Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 1999 Posts: 107	Let me chime in and repeat what is mentioned above. FIT is the important thing! A more expensive shotgun that doesn't fit your body type as well as the "cheaper" competition won't serve you well. Shoes are sold in different sizes for a reason. The same holds true for shotguns. I know it sounds strange because your local gun shop doesn't ask you if want a small, medium or, large. In my case I personally like the aesthetics of the Browning O&U's better then the Beretta's but, the Beretta's stocks are cut to fit me while the Brownings are not. Unless you are going to get fitted for a shotgun and have the stock made to fit your body profile, focus on well known quality brands with a long term reputation for good quality firearms. Then find the one (or series) that fits you best. Depending on how big your are, strong you are and, what you intend to do with the shotgun, you may find a specific reason to get a barrel length unusually long or short. In general most people will get a 26 or 28 inch barrel length. If the barrels are light, consider the 28 inch. A little more weight out front will slow your swing down a little but, will help your track and steady the shotgun. Brand and specifics? In new shotguns, the Beretta and Browning offerings are the way to go. Well known companies with a long and well earned reputation for quality. If you are new to O&U's, stick to the $1K to $2K price range until you really understand what you are buying. That price range offers a lot of value for what you spend. If you have a reputable dealer or very knowledgable friend to help, a used shotgun is a viable option as well. If you don't know what to look for, don't buy one off the street (gun shows, newspaper ads, etc.). Have you considered a 20 gauge or, are you only looking for a 12 gauge? A 20 gauge can be a significantly lighter weight shotgun if you are going to lug it around the field a lot and shoot it very little. Features to look for? Get a current Browning and Beretta product catalog and educate yourself on the current options for back bored barrels, sport clays features, etc. to ease the buying decision. In the end, it doesn't matter how much it cost or what features it has if it doesn't fit your body and you can't (or won't) shoot it.

April 7, 2002, 09:28 PM	#15
Chuck Graber Member Join Date: August 22, 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 74	Taxphd, American Arms is now out of business. Some of their assets were bought out by Tristar Sporting Arms Ltd. Most of the Italian AA guns were made by Stephano Fausti who is now making guns for Traditions Performance Firearms. The Spanish AAs were made by Zabala Hermanos, Lanber, Indesal, Grulla, and the Diarm consortium. All of these ran the gamut from solid shooters to near junk. Chuck Graber

April 7, 2002, 09:53 PM	#16
m14nut Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2002 Location: United States Posts: 375	Well, since you mentioned Stoeger, I got their Condor2 about 5 years ago[2 triggers, no screw ins] and although it may not be the purdiest gun in the rack, it FITS me for the length of pull, and FUNCTIONS perfectly. Yea, it's no Red Label or Citori, but for busting the Jersey hardwoods chasing birds and some occaisonal skeets it's a darn good gun .02cents please!