gun noise ?

rebs · December 10, 2012, 02:59 PM

I am hand loading for my AR 15 using between 20.0 and 25.0 of H335 with 55 grain bullets. When I am shooting at the range quite a few other shooters comment on how loud my AR is. I don't have a muzzle break, just a target crown on the barrel.
Why would it be any louder than any other 223 ? The loads I am using are not that hot are they ?

KenL · December 10, 2012, 03:06 PM

What does your reloading manual say? And are your loads a specific weight that happens to be between those weights or are you just filling the cases and they end up between those weights?

**Unclenick** · December 10, 2012, 03:34 PM

My guess is they may not be used to hearing a .223 without a flash suppressor. The suppressor does drop the gas temperature some, and it directs the gases, both of which could affect report. If the muzzle blast is extra loud, you could also be burning powder inefficiently, making a lower peak pressure and forcing you to use more powder and make more total gas to get the velocity you have than would be the case with better ignition.

H335 is one of the old spherical formulations that CCI reformulated their magnum primers to improve ignition of in 1989. So if you are using standard primers with it, I would go to the CCI #41 primer. It is a military sensitivity primer for added slamfire resistance in the AR action, and they are magnum spec. If you can't find them conveniently, the CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer would be my next choice just because it employs that same magnum formulation that is specifically geared toward that kind of powder. Seat firmly for most consistent ignition.

m&p45acp10+1 · December 10, 2012, 07:26 PM

.223 is a loud round regardless. 25.0 grains of H-335 with a 55 grain bullet is my go to load for my Savage, and few other rifles, it does quite well.

Brian Pfleuger · December 10, 2012, 07:29 PM

How long is the barrel on this thing?

All else being equal, shorter barrels are louder.

m&p45acp10+1 · December 10, 2012, 08:14 PM

H-335 can make a bit more noise, and has some flash in some other loadings. I loaded some with 110 grain bullets in 7.62x54R they were louder than the spam can stuff by a small margin. Thought there was a tremendous amount of muzzle flash.

Oh and my 24 inch barrel on my Savage is just as loud as as any 16 inch AR there is.

the led farmer · December 10, 2012, 08:16 PM

You want to be behind a .223 not next to it that's for sure.

It's got a bark

rebs · December 10, 2012, 09:13 PM

It is a 16" barrel and I load 24.0 for some bullets and 24.9 for my other loads. Both loads are not maximum. Just loud. I guess its normal, I may try the magnum primers with the H335 powder.
Thank you for all the replies.

Brian Pfleuger · December 10, 2012, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebs

It is a 16" barrel

THAT'S why you're loud.

I'll run it through QuickLoad when I get home and get a solid number, but I'm going to guess that your muzzle pressure is somewhere in the 14-17,000psi range, where if you had a more typical 22-24" barrel your muzzle pressure would be more like 8-10,000psi.

**Unclenick** · December 10, 2012, 10:05 PM

20" would be standard NM course AR barrel length. Still a good bit of difference from a 16".

Brian Pfleuger · December 10, 2012, 11:23 PM

Ah.

The 223 runs lower muzzle pressures than I'm used to seeing, due to having a smaller case capacity than anything I use. Even my .204 Ruger had about 30% more capacity.

Anyhow, a 16" barrel with 25.0gr H335 under 55gr bullets is going to run just shy of 11,000psi, while a 20" barrel would run 8,500psi.

8,500 is close to what a "normal" rifle would run, like a .308 or .243 with a 24" barrel.

11,000 is going to be loud. My 15" barrel Encore chambered in 7mm-08 runs about 14,000 and it's much, muUCH louder than a typical rifle.

medalguy · December 12, 2012, 12:24 AM

Try it in a 11.5 inch XM177 barrel. That puppy will really put out a bark!! And a flash that'll nearly blind you at night.

December 10, 2012, 02:59 PM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	gun noise ? I am hand loading for my AR 15 using between 20.0 and 25.0 of H335 with 55 grain bullets. When I am shooting at the range quite a few other shooters comment on how loud my AR is. I don't have a muzzle break, just a target crown on the barrel. Why would it be any louder than any other 223 ? The loads I am using are not that hot are they ?

December 10, 2012, 03:34 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	My guess is they may not be used to hearing a .223 without a flash suppressor. The suppressor does drop the gas temperature some, and it directs the gases, both of which could affect report. If the muzzle blast is extra loud, you could also be burning powder inefficiently, making a lower peak pressure and forcing you to use more powder and make more total gas to get the velocity you have than would be the case with better ignition. H335 is one of the old spherical formulations that CCI reformulated their magnum primers to improve ignition of in 1989. So if you are using standard primers with it, I would go to the CCI #41 primer. It is a military sensitivity primer for added slamfire resistance in the AR action, and they are magnum spec. If you can't find them conveniently, the CCI 450 small rifle magnum primer would be my next choice just because it employs that same magnum formulation that is specifically geared toward that kind of powder. Seat firmly for most consistent ignition. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 10, 2012, 07:29 PM	#5
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	How long is the barrel on this thing? All else being equal, shorter barrels are louder. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

December 10, 2012, 08:14 PM	#6
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	H-335 can make a bit more noise, and has some flash in some other loadings. I loaded some with 110 grain bullets in 7.62x54R they were louder than the spam can stuff by a small margin. Thought there was a tremendous amount of muzzle flash. Oh and my 24 inch barrel on my Savage is just as loud as as any 16 inch AR there is. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

December 10, 2012, 10:05 PM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	20" would be standard NM course AR barrel length. Still a good bit of difference from a 16". __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 10, 2012, 03:06 PM	#2
KenL Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 218	What does your reloading manual say? And are your loads a specific weight that happens to be between those weights or are you just filling the cases and they end up between those weights?

December 10, 2012, 07:26 PM	#4
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	.223 is a loud round regardless. 25.0 grains of H-335 with a 55 grain bullet is my go to load for my Savage, and few other rifles, it does quite well. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

December 10, 2012, 08:16 PM	#7
the led farmer Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2012 Location: so cal Posts: 246	You want to be behind a .223 not next to it that's for sure. It's got a bark

December 10, 2012, 09:13 PM	#8
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	It is a 16" barrel and I load 24.0 for some bullets and 24.9 for my other loads. Both loads are not maximum. Just loud. I guess its normal, I may try the magnum primers with the H335 powder. Thank you for all the replies.

December 10, 2012, 11:23 PM	#11
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Ah. The 223 runs lower muzzle pressures than I'm used to seeing, due to having a smaller case capacity than anything I use. Even my .204 Ruger had about 30% more capacity. Anyhow, a 16" barrel with 25.0gr H335 under 55gr bullets is going to run just shy of 11,000psi, while a 20" barrel would run 8,500psi. 8,500 is close to what a "normal" rifle would run, like a .308 or .243 with a 24" barrel. 11,000 is going to be loud. My 15" barrel Encore chambered in 7mm-08 runs about 14,000 and it's much, muUCH louder than a typical rifle. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

December 12, 2012, 12:24 AM	#12
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	Try it in a 11.5 inch XM177 barrel. That puppy will really put out a bark!! And a flash that'll nearly blind you at night.