gunsmith liability protection

willp58 · November 11, 2000, 08:43 PM

Hello, I, like many others work a full time job (tool maker/designer)and have a gunsmith business that I run part time. I have a pretty good shop with good equipment and a pretty good volume of business. My question is to others in this situation; how do you protect yourself from lawsuits? Do you do trigger jobs and do you have some kind of waiver? Do you carry liability insurance? Are you set up as a LLC? I need some guidelines here as I feel vulnerable lately. One of the large gunshops in this area got sued last year becuse some guy got whacked above the eye with a scope that they put on. The guy won! He got $2,000, the gunshop's lawyer said it would be easier and cheaper to pay it. Nice huh? Thanks, willp58

James K · November 11, 2000, 09:26 PM

I think the first thing is to have a license and be compliant with local laws, including zoning, firearms storage, etc. The reason is that not going that route allows you to be portrayed as a "rogue" gun hacker, who disregards the law, etc.

I believe you do need insurance. I don't know enough about business insurance to know rates or who provides it, but I do know homeowners insurance does not usually cover a business conducted in the home, and is very unlikely to cover that type of business.

The problem is not only liability for work done. If a customer leaves a valuable gun with you and there is a fire, you have to replace the gun or pay its full value, which could get salty.

Frankly, I would not advise anyone to get into the gunsmithing business unless willing to run it as a business, even if only a part time business. In other words, operate out of a business location, not your home, get all the necessary licenses and permits, comply with storage requirements, and go for it. We need more good gunsmiths.

Jim

Wallew · November 11, 2000, 11:04 PM

There is a company that will provide you with liability insurance. Minimum amount that you will need is about $1 million. I believe that insurance can be had, but it's not cheap, in excess of $1500 a year and up. If you don't have that insurance, consider incorporating yourself. You might avoid litigation that could cost you your home, car, and end up oweing some customer the rest of you lifes income over one mistake that you did (or did not) make. I agree with Jim Keenan. If you don't have an FFL and are doing gunsmithing, the BATF can (and often does) put people in jail for a long time for doing gunsmithing without an FFL. Even though I am a gunsmith, I currently only work on my own firearms. I purchase, fix and then sell. Or will custom build, but as the parts are in my name, it's my gun until I finish with it. It is technically legal but I wouldn't want to explain it to an unfriendly judge. So I just don't do it very often. I am considering changing locales to a city/state that is a little less anti gun and a little less anti gun business. Until then, I try to keep my nose clean. The BATF is not a real friendly outfit if they find you've broken THEIR laws. And you need to make sure you have followed all the local, city, county, state and other federal laws when it comes to your gunsmithing business. It's not easy and is being made more difficult all the time. Good luck.

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MOLON LABE!!!

JK · November 11, 2000, 11:48 PM

The American Gunsmith has gunsmith liability insurance available thru an outside agency. If I recall correctly you get $600,000 insurance per year, limited to $300,000 per claim for $425.00 a year. I have a part time gunsmithing business out of my home (with all the required licences and permits). I am going to sign up for this plan. I realize that most people in the business belive that one million is the minimum you should have, but I can't afford that much at this time. $300,000 is better than nothing.
Write them at: American Gunsmithing assoc.
75 Holly Hill Lane Greenwich, CT 06836-7484 800-241-7484
It requires that you belong to the association which costs about $40. a year and includes a great monthly publication on gunsmithing.

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Fight Crime-Shoot Back

James K · November 12, 2000, 06:09 PM

I don't have this for gospel, but I think you need a gunsmith FFL only if you keep customers' guns to do work on them. If you work on the gun while the customer waits or return it the same day, you don't need a license. Definitely check with BATF if this could fit your situation, but I don't know many gunsmiths who work that way.

Jim

willp58 · November 12, 2000, 07:58 PM

Thanks for the responses, I should have mentioned that I do have an FFL also a NYS gunsmith license. I guess my main concern is for the liability insurance, I will contact The American Gunsmith Co. for sure. Thanks again, willp58

November 11, 2000, 08:43 PM	#1
willp58 Member Join Date: November 10, 2000 Location: Jamestown, NY Posts: 48	Hello, I, like many others work a full time job (tool maker/designer)and have a gunsmith business that I run part time. I have a pretty good shop with good equipment and a pretty good volume of business. My question is to others in this situation; how do you protect yourself from lawsuits? Do you do trigger jobs and do you have some kind of waiver? Do you carry liability insurance? Are you set up as a LLC? I need some guidelines here as I feel vulnerable lately. One of the large gunshops in this area got sued last year becuse some guy got whacked above the eye with a scope that they put on. The guy won! He got $2,000, the gunshop's lawyer said it would be easier and cheaper to pay it. Nice huh? Thanks, willp58

November 11, 2000, 09:26 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I think the first thing is to have a license and be compliant with local laws, including zoning, firearms storage, etc. The reason is that not going that route allows you to be portrayed as a "rogue" gun hacker, who disregards the law, etc. I believe you do need insurance. I don't know enough about business insurance to know rates or who provides it, but I do know homeowners insurance does not usually cover a business conducted in the home, and is very unlikely to cover that type of business. The problem is not only liability for work done. If a customer leaves a valuable gun with you and there is a fire, you have to replace the gun or pay its full value, which could get salty. Frankly, I would not advise anyone to get into the gunsmithing business unless willing to run it as a business, even if only a part time business. In other words, operate out of a business location, not your home, get all the necessary licenses and permits, comply with storage requirements, and go for it. We need more good gunsmiths. Jim

November 11, 2000, 11:04 PM	#3
Wallew Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Posts: 910	There is a company that will provide you with liability insurance. Minimum amount that you will need is about $1 million. I believe that insurance can be had, but it's not cheap, in excess of $1500 a year and up. If you don't have that insurance, consider incorporating yourself. You might avoid litigation that could cost you your home, car, and end up oweing some customer the rest of you lifes income over one mistake that you did (or did not) make. I agree with Jim Keenan. If you don't have an FFL and are doing gunsmithing, the BATF can (and often does) put people in jail for a long time for doing gunsmithing without an FFL. Even though I am a gunsmith, I currently only work on my own firearms. I purchase, fix and then sell. Or will custom build, but as the parts are in my name, it's my gun until I finish with it. It is technically legal but I wouldn't want to explain it to an unfriendly judge. So I just don't do it very often. I am considering changing locales to a city/state that is a little less anti gun and a little less anti gun business. Until then, I try to keep my nose clean. The BATF is not a real friendly outfit if they find you've broken THEIR laws. And you need to make sure you have followed all the local, city, county, state and other federal laws when it comes to your gunsmithing business. It's not easy and is being made more difficult all the time. Good luck. ------------------ MOLON LABE!!!

November 11, 2000, 11:48 PM	#4
JK Member Join Date: October 27, 2000 Posts: 75	The American Gunsmith has gunsmith liability insurance available thru an outside agency. If I recall correctly you get $600,000 insurance per year, limited to $300,000 per claim for $425.00 a year. I have a part time gunsmithing business out of my home (with all the required licences and permits). I am going to sign up for this plan. I realize that most people in the business belive that one million is the minimum you should have, but I can't afford that much at this time. $300,000 is better than nothing. Write them at: American Gunsmithing assoc. 75 Holly Hill Lane Greenwich, CT 06836-7484 800-241-7484 It requires that you belong to the association which costs about $40. a year and includes a great monthly publication on gunsmithing. ------------------ Fight Crime-Shoot Back

November 12, 2000, 06:09 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I don't have this for gospel, but I think you need a gunsmith FFL only if you keep customers' guns to do work on them. If you work on the gun while the customer waits or return it the same day, you don't need a license. Definitely check with BATF if this could fit your situation, but I don't know many gunsmiths who work that way. Jim

November 12, 2000, 07:58 PM	#6
willp58 Member Join Date: November 10, 2000 Location: Jamestown, NY Posts: 48	Thanks for the responses, I should have mentioned that I do have an FFL also a NYS gunsmith license. I guess my main concern is for the liability insurance, I will contact The American Gunsmith Co. for sure. Thanks again, willp58