October 6, 2012, 09:55 PM | #2651 | |
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Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill) |
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October 7, 2012, 07:56 AM | #2652 | ||
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Quote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...tory?track=rss Quote:
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October 7, 2012, 07:11 PM | #2653 |
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An interesting way to look at this is what if this had been reversed? What if Mexico had initiated a identical operation to this from its side and we had the effects Mexico got....
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October 10, 2012, 11:32 AM | #2654 |
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This thread is about the ATF's Fast & Furious operation and issues directly related to it. It is not about border fences or immigration policy. Posts on those matters will be treated as being off-topic.
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October 10, 2012, 11:36 AM | #2655 |
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We would be calling it exactly what it is -- an act of war against a sovereign nation.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
October 10, 2012, 11:53 AM | #2656 | |
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We will see what happens now that this guy is back in the U.S. Hopefully, Issa will jump on him like a duck on a June Bug.
SOURCE Quote:
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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October 10, 2012, 04:57 PM | #2657 |
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....And still, no one has been arrested for selling, or directing the sale of, guns to known straw purchasers!
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October 10, 2012, 05:00 PM | #2658 |
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"When the President does it, that means it is not illegal." --Richard Nixon, 1977
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October 10, 2012, 08:34 PM | #2659 | |
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If they basically let them walk unaccounted for then that should be a felony, not some admin boo-boo. Get some of the ATF guys going off to prison and I bet we would hear more singing all up the chain of command.
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October 10, 2012, 09:16 PM | #2660 |
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quoting from another post NWPilgrim offered:
"....And still, no one has been arrested for selling, or directing the sale of, guns to known straw purchasers! " He followed with the following: "Exactly! If they claim protection of it being a LEO operation, then they should have to prove they were responsibly tracking the firearms after they went across the border. They should be held accountable for a full inventory accounting of each firearm." "If they basically let them walk unaccounted for then that should be a felony, not some admin boo-boo. Get some of the ATF guys going off to prison and I bet we would hear more singing all up the chain of command. " -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re his closing, the bit about ATF guys going to prison, while it might be all to appropriate, I suspect that given administration /political CYAing, it is something that is unlikely to happen, barraing the unusual. |
October 12, 2012, 08:37 AM | #2661 |
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Vince Cefalu. BATFE whistleblower, has been fired.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...whistleblower/ |
October 12, 2012, 01:40 PM | #2662 | |
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Quote:
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepa...ys_parking_lot
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October 13, 2012, 12:56 PM | #2663 |
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Who was the incompetent person screwing up a simple video moment?
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October 13, 2012, 02:29 PM | #2664 |
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Re posts 2659 and 2650 and accompanying news items, dealing with the "termination" of BATFE Whistleblower Vince Cefalu, the following might interest some here.
Yesterday afternoon, on NPR, I heard a segment discussing whistle blowing, the people who engage in this activity both in private industry and in government, government employees blowing the whistle, and what all to often happens with government employees, who blow the whistle on legitimate problems. They, the whistle blowers often end up being fired, the people responsible for the problems the whistle blowers exposed are often promoted, action against responsible individuals is almost never brought, which is to say that while criminal prosecution of responsible parties is appropriate, it almost never happens, while the person who brought the problem to the attention of "government" is essentially punished, the fact that they might receive a monetary award being beside the point, for they are often renderedeed "unemployable", and might well end up never working in their field again. The discussion included, as I recall, attorneys from both sides. Seems as if the fate of Mr.Cefalu might go quite some distance in support of the contentions inherent in the segment. Unfortunately, I do not recall which program this segment was part of, it was however broadcast yesterday. |
October 13, 2012, 11:16 PM | #2665 |
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A search at http://www.npr.org turned up nothing for yesterday with the word "whistleblower", "whistle-blower", or "whistle blower" in it. The search was narrowed to the last seven days for all programs and all topics.
The only thing which popped up was the following but that was on 10/10/12. Soldiers Claim Illness After Guarding KBR In Iraq October 10, 2012 ... oilfield plant was riddled with a well-known toxin but ignored the risk to soldiers while hurrying the project along, firing a whistleblower and covering ... By The Associated Press http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=162671029
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
October 14, 2012, 09:01 AM | #2666 |
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jimpeel :
Sorry to have sent you down a blind alley. Having seen your response, I got curious, I must be getting old and feeble minded, managed to jog my "memory" a bit, finding the following. Dater of broadcast: 11 October Show carrying the item: Diane Rehm There is an audio and I assume text version at the Diane Rehm site. The audio runs a bit over 51 minutes. The web site includes comments from listeners, which might or might not be of interest. Once again, my apologies for the misdirection. |
October 14, 2012, 09:59 PM | #2667 |
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I know a lady who brought and won an EEO suit against a supervisor for racial/sexual discrimination in a federal agency. The lady was sidelined and isolated, the perp sent to another office and later promoted twice.
This travesty occurred with people dealing security matters and at the managerial level. The feds, and other major bureaucratic entities, sometimes apparently would rather fail at their supposed mission than accept embarrassment. No wonder people like Newell survive and get well past their level of incompetence and venality.
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October 15, 2012, 12:01 AM | #2668 |
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Thanks, Alan. Was able to find THIS.
Wow! I thought she got full use of her voice back after she lost it several years back. She sounds like she has had a stroke now. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...y/rehm0823.htm
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
October 15, 2012, 06:14 PM | #2669 |
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jimpel:
Re my perhaps failing, certainly less reliable than it once was memory, there is a similarity between my "problem", and Dianes voice situation. We all get old, I didn't use to have gray hair, though I have it these days. Additionally, as has been observed, "getting old ain't for sissies". Anyhow, getting back to F & F, and things more closely related thereto, the following headline raises interesting questions. "Uncooperative Witness on Fast and Furious, Returns to U.S. From Sudden Posting to Iraq". One wonders as to exactly what the fellow might have to say. |
October 16, 2012, 01:14 AM | #2670 |
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I'm sure that the curiosity of many is piqued at that prospect. He knows enough that he is a danger to the administration. Hopefully, he comes clean and we all will revel in his knowledge.
Hopefully, Issa is working on this as we speak.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
October 16, 2012, 07:20 AM | #2671 | |
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Justice Department seeks dismissal of Fast and Furious lawsuit
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...est=latestnews
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Hopefully the court can recognize a trick bag when it sees it. |
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October 16, 2012, 08:46 AM | #2672 | |
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Here's the part that annoys me...
Source: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz29T3PGB33 Quote:
If memory serves, the courts settled an executive privilege dispute before, during the Nixon administration. That was regarding an audio tape (with the infamous 18-minute gap).
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October 16, 2012, 08:58 AM | #2673 |
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Under the "political question" doctrine, courts actually do not resolve, well, political questions. The issue, then, is whether this particular dispute constitutes a political question. Clearly, the administration hopes to convince the court that it does.
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October 16, 2012, 01:26 PM | #2674 |
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An agents death in my mind would seem to make it more than some political theatre, not to mention all the dead Mexican nationals this administration created with this ploy.
If this was done under any other name than the government we would be calling it organized crime.
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October 16, 2012, 05:20 PM | #2675 |
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jimpeel wrote in part:
Thanks, Alan. Was able to find THIS. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe your "THIS" was the DR segment I finally referenced. Otherwise, re the guy thaat suddenly went overseaas, and has now aseemikngly returned, it will be interesting to note whether or not he developes "a failure of memory". Luger_carbine wrote, as the close of his post: Hopefully the court can recognize a trick bag when it sees it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would think that that depends on whether or not the court has the guts to really look at what is being waved in it's face, which it might or might not have. I guess we shall see. |
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