Anti-Gun activist breaks Gun Free Zone Law - Page 5

**44 AMP** · February 22, 2014, 12:56 AM

and what if he "consented" to the pat down?

The Police have a report of a man with a gun, right? I think that could be argued that is the articulable and reasonable suspicion. The are patting down the students before letting them exit the building.

He gets in line, not concerned, because a) he "forgot" he was wearing a gun, or b) thinks because he has a permit, his butt is covered.

Steps up when its his turn, and "oh..what's THIS????!!!!!"

not sure you could make the argument to get the search thrown out IF that's about the way it happened...

KyJim · February 23, 2014, 02:34 AM

If it is consensual, no problem. However, an anonymous tip saying "man with a gun" is not enough. There's actually a U.S. Supreme Court case that says so and with facts more favorable than those here. I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head. Students are in a different category and have diminished rights while at school, though I do not pretend to know much about the parameters of their rights.

My scenario is admittedly speculative. I'm just throwing it out there as a possible way out for everyone involved if they want to open that door.

Added: The case is Florida v. J.L., 529 U.S. 266 (2000). There's a description of it at http://www.fdap.org/downloads/articl...ymous_tips.pdf. Just read the first numbered section. BTW, the Supreme Court has just agreed to review an anonymous tip case.

**44 AMP** · February 23, 2014, 03:25 PM

I can see the clear difference between students at school, and an adult on school grounds. Being minors, and at school means their legal rights are different. agree.

I was giving a possible situation, again, just for consideration. The actual details will determine what applies and doesn't for this case.

Just some things to think about, if you might ever be in a remotely similar situation.

sixgunluv · March 9, 2014, 07:48 PM

Here's an update on the case. Now adjourned until March 27th.

http://wivb.com/2014/03/06/activist-...are-at-school/

sixgunluv · March 27, 2014, 12:34 PM

Transferred to Erie County...........

http://wivb.com/2014/03/27/activist-...ears-in-court/

**Aguila Blanca** · March 27, 2014, 04:09 PM

^^^ Another brilliant example of the demise of journalism in the U.S.

Quote:

Ferguson originally faced a number of charges including one count of criminal possession of a weapon on school grounds and criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree. Now he’s only facing one count.

Erie County Assistant District Attorney Michael Flaherty said, “He was originally charged with possession of weapon in the second degree. That charge has not been held for the grand jury because Mr. Ferguson has a permit. He had a lawful permit for the weapon.”

News 4 asked Ferguson if he wanted to comment. He declined.

Flaherty says this case could be resolved before it’s presented to the grand jury. But Flaherty says it’s too early to know if any charges will be dismissed.

If "any charges" will be dismissed?

If he's only facing one charge, if ANY charges are dismissed he walks. Even a first year journalism student should be able to figure out that one minus one equals zero.

steve4102 · March 27, 2014, 04:47 PM

^^^ yupper^^^

Looks like he is on the fast track to being a free man!

**Spats McGee** · March 27, 2014, 05:52 PM

Anybody know why it was transferred?

wogpotter · March 28, 2014, 09:57 AM

I'll up my bet on him skating to $2.00 U.S. just like I said earlier.

KyJim · March 28, 2014, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Anybody know why it was transferred?

Just a guess, not really knowing anything about N.Y. courts — this was transfer from a court of limited jurisdiction (arraignments, etc.) to one with jurisdiction over felonies. The article linked to states:

Quote:

Dwayne Ferguson waived his right to a felony hearing in Buffalo City Court Thursday morning. Now, his case is being transferred to Erie County Court.

steve4102 · May 31, 2014, 07:47 AM

Update:

Dwayne Ferguson has pleaded guilty to criminal possession of a weapon which is a misdemeanor.

Sentencing won't happen till Aug 19.

http://wivb.com/2014/05/27/plea-deal...uffalo-school/

wogpotter · May 31, 2014, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Betcha a dollar he skates just like the other guy did.

Please mail the $1.00 bills to:-

Brian Pfleuger · May 31, 2014, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogpotter

Please mail the $1.00 bills to:-

Considering that he actually committed a felony and then lied and tried to hide, he certainly did "skate" by pleading to a misdemeanor.

press1280 · May 31, 2014, 02:27 PM

He will lose possession of his guns, so I guess he didn't skate completely.

Mike1234 · May 31, 2014, 02:34 PM

^^^ I don't think a misdemeanor prevents him from owning firearms nor from carrying... not much more than getting a parking ticket keeps one from driving provided one pays the fine on time.

I wouldn't even call this a slap on the wrist.

Dreaming100Straight · May 31, 2014, 03:08 PM

I don't know that he forfeits his guns. That article said he surrenders them as a condition of bail. That sounds like he temporarily forfeits them.

wogpotter · May 31, 2014, 03:12 PM

Surrender is caused by FELONY conviction IIRC. Yet another way to apply some super slick grease to ease the sippin' & slidin'.

Unlicensed Dremel · June 3, 2014, 09:46 AM

Oh, that's rich - yeah I see the David Gregory get out of jail free card being passed around here.

**44 AMP** · June 3, 2014, 10:54 AM

While a misdemeanor conviction (other than domestic violence) does not strip him of his gun rights, ANY conviction (other than a traffic offense -and sometimes even those) can be grounds for revocation of his pistol license.

And any "gun" crime usually is automatic revocation. It may not be a statute requirement, but it is what they do, almost without exception.

This may be the exception, the "crime" was a)non-violent, b)admitted to, c) the guy obviously has some stroke in his local area, D) was an "honest mistake..etc..)

SOO, he might not get his permit pulled, or might get it re-instated (perhaps after a "cooling off" period when attention to the case has faded), if he is nice enough to the right people.

When someone on the anti-gun side breaks a gun law, their side usually tries to make it no big deal, he broke a "rule", simple mistake, no one was hurt, etc. When someone on our side of the issue does exactly the same thing, they scream about violations of LAW! Children could have died, stiff jail time and loss of rights MUST BE APPLIED!, Etc., etc., etc.

Double standard is the mildest thing I can say about it....

psyfly · June 3, 2014, 01:36 PM

IANAL, so I'd like one of ours to comment.

Am I being paranoid to think the case is being carefully adjudicated in order to avoid creating some case law that mignt be used by some real bad guy (like thee and me) to someday skate, as well?

W.

Armorer-at-Law · June 3, 2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Am I being paranoid to think the case is being carefully adjucidated in order to avoid creating some case law that mignt be used by some real bad guy (like thee and me) to someday skate, as well?

Probably a fair assessment.

Brian Pfleuger · June 3, 2014, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44AMP

While a misdemeanor conviction (other than domestic violence) does not strip him of his gun rights, ANY conviction (other than a traffic offense -and sometimes even those) can be grounds for revocation of his pistol license.

And any "gun" crime usually is automatic revocation. It may not be a statute requirement, but it is what they do, almost without exception.

The relevant penal code is 400.11 which states:

11. License: revocation and suspension. (a) The conviction of a
licensee anywhere of a felony or serious offense or a licensee at any
time becoming ineligible to obtain a license under this section shall
operate as a revocation of the license. A license may be revoked or
suspended as provided for in section 530.14 of the criminal procedure
law or section eight hundred forty-two-a of the family court act. Except
for a license issued pursuant to section 400.01 of this article, a
license may be revoked and cancelled at any time in the city of New
York, and in the counties of Nassau and Suffolk, by the licensing
officer, and elsewhere than in the city of New York by any judge or
justice of a court of record; a license issued pursuant to section
400.01 of this article may be revoked and cancelled at any time by the
licensing officer or any judge or justice of a court of record. The
official revoking a license shall give written notice thereof without
unnecessary delay to the executive department, division of state police,
Albany, and shall also notify immediately the duly constituted police
authorities of the locality.

wogpotter · June 3, 2014, 03:14 PM

Quote:

b)admitted to

When? He lied like a rug to conceal it. He tried to spin the answer after he got tagged for telling whoppers about it as well.
Sure after they snagged him he finally admitted it when he couldn't bury the facts any more.

Sorry, that don't cut it as an "admission" in my books.

**44 AMP** · June 3, 2014, 05:46 PM

Quote:

b)admitted to

When? He lied like a rug to conceal it. He tried to spin the answer after he got tagged for telling whoppers about it as well.
Sure after they snagged him he finally admitted it when he couldn't bury the facts any more.

Sorry, that don't cut it as an "admission" in my books.

Agree. But in their books, it does. Part of their "he just made a mistake, and owned up to it, give him a break" attitude.

Unfortunately, there is no law, or extra penalty that can be added for obvious hypocrisy. Or, at least, none I know of...

steve4102 · August 27, 2014, 07:13 AM

Dwayne Ferguson plead guilty to a class A Misdemeanor several weeks ago. He was sentenced on Aug 19th. I can't find any info other than this.

http://www.wkbw.com/news/Anti-Violen...271818161.html

Anyone know the outcome and if he can retain his firearms and carry permit?

I also found this dated June 5.

http://arbalestquarrel.com/dwayne-fe...lose-handguns/

February 22, 2014, 12:56 AM	#101
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	and what if he "consented" to the pat down? The Police have a report of a man with a gun, right? I think that could be argued that is the articulable and reasonable suspicion. The are patting down the students before letting them exit the building. He gets in line, not concerned, because a) he "forgot" he was wearing a gun, or b) thinks because he has a permit, his butt is covered. Steps up when its his turn, and "oh..what's THIS????!!!!!" not sure you could make the argument to get the search thrown out IF that's about the way it happened... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 23, 2014, 02:34 AM	#102
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	If it is consensual, no problem. However, an anonymous tip saying "man with a gun" is not enough. There's actually a U.S. Supreme Court case that says so and with facts more favorable than those here. I can't think of the name of it off the top of my head. Students are in a different category and have diminished rights while at school, though I do not pretend to know much about the parameters of their rights. My scenario is admittedly speculative. I'm just throwing it out there as a possible way out for everyone involved if they want to open that door. Added: The case is Florida v. J.L., 529 U.S. 266 (2000). There's a description of it at http://www.fdap.org/downloads/articl...ymous_tips.pdf. Just read the first numbered section. BTW, the Supreme Court has just agreed to review an anonymous tip case. Last edited by KyJim; February 23, 2014 at 02:43 AM.

February 23, 2014, 03:25 PM	#103
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	I can see the clear difference between students at school, and an adult on school grounds. Being minors, and at school means their legal rights are different. agree. I was giving a possible situation, again, just for consideration. The actual details will determine what applies and doesn't for this case. Just some things to think about, if you might ever be in a remotely similar situation. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

March 9, 2014, 07:48 PM	#104
sixgunluv Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2008 Posts: 200	UPDATE Here's an update on the case. Now adjourned until March 27th. http://wivb.com/2014/03/06/activist-...are-at-school/ Last edited by sixgunluv; March 10, 2014 at 12:20 PM.

March 27, 2014, 12:34 PM	#105
sixgunluv Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2008 Posts: 200	Re: Update Transferred to Erie County........... http://wivb.com/2014/03/27/activist-...ears-in-court/

March 27, 2014, 04:47 PM	#107
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,951	^^^ yupper^^^ Looks like he is on the fast track to being a free man!

March 27, 2014, 05:52 PM	#108
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Anybody know why it was transferred? __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

March 28, 2014, 09:57 AM	#109
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	I'll up my bet on him skating to $2.00 U.S. just like I said earlier. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

May 31, 2014, 07:47 AM	#111
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,951	Update: Dwayne Ferguson has pleaded guilty to criminal possession of a weapon which is a misdemeanor. Sentencing won't happen till Aug 19. http://wivb.com/2014/05/27/plea-deal...uffalo-school/

May 31, 2014, 02:27 PM	#114
press1280 Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2012 Posts: 228	He will lose possession of his guns, so I guess he didn't skate completely.

May 31, 2014, 02:34 PM	#115
Mike1234 Junior member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: Alamo City Posts: 356	^^^ I don't think a misdemeanor prevents him from owning firearms nor from carrying... not much more than getting a parking ticket keeps one from driving provided one pays the fine on time. I wouldn't even call this a slap on the wrist.

May 31, 2014, 03:08 PM	#116
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	I don't know that he forfeits his guns. That article said he surrenders them as a condition of bail. That sounds like he temporarily forfeits them.

May 31, 2014, 03:12 PM	#117
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Surrender is caused by FELONY conviction IIRC. Yet another way to apply some super slick grease to ease the sippin' & slidin'. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

June 3, 2014, 09:46 AM	#118
Unlicensed Dremel Junior member Join Date: February 13, 2014 Location: Flathead Valley, MT Posts: 2,187	Oh, that's rich - yeah I see the David Gregory get out of jail free card being passed around here.

June 3, 2014, 10:54 AM	#119
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	While a misdemeanor conviction (other than domestic violence) does not strip him of his gun rights, ANY conviction (other than a traffic offense -and sometimes even those) can be grounds for revocation of his pistol license. And any "gun" crime usually is automatic revocation. It may not be a statute requirement, but it is what they do, almost without exception. This may be the exception, the "crime" was a)non-violent, b)admitted to, c) the guy obviously has some stroke in his local area, D) was an "honest mistake..etc..) SOO, he might not get his permit pulled, or might get it re-instated (perhaps after a "cooling off" period when attention to the case has faded), if he is nice enough to the right people. When someone on the anti-gun side breaks a gun law, their side usually tries to make it no big deal, he broke a "rule", simple mistake, no one was hurt, etc. When someone on our side of the issue does exactly the same thing, they scream about violations of LAW! Children could have died, stiff jail time and loss of rights MUST BE APPLIED!, Etc., etc., etc. Double standard is the mildest thing I can say about it.... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

June 3, 2014, 01:36 PM	#120
psyfly Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 932	IANAL, so I'd like one of ours to comment. Am I being paranoid to think the case is being carefully adjudicated in order to avoid creating some case law that mignt be used by some real bad guy (like thee and me) to someday skate, as well? W. __________________ Show me the data Last edited by psyfly; June 3, 2014 at 03:56 PM. Reason: Spelling

August 27, 2014, 07:13 AM	#125
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,951	Dwayne Ferguson Sentenced Dwayne Ferguson plead guilty to a class A Misdemeanor several weeks ago. He was sentenced on Aug 19th. I can't find any info other than this. http://www.wkbw.com/news/Anti-Violen...271818161.html Anyone know the outcome and if he can retain his firearms and carry permit? I also found this dated June 5. http://arbalestquarrel.com/dwayne-fe...lose-handguns/

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