Optics for hunting

deerslayerdave · October 21, 2014, 12:28 AM

Alright I've got a noob question here,
I've killed running deer up close with scoped rifles that only go down to 3x, and I've killed standing deer at over 100 yards with rifles that have non-magnified red dot sights and I've noticed neither setup is near ideal for both types of shots.

I'd like an optic for a solid hitting AR like one in 450 bushmaster so I'd really like an optic mounted forward so i don't get idiot cuts... again cough cough

.

Is there a way run a magnifier and red dot sight without magnifying the reticle?

And is there a scope with more eye relief than a standard 3-9x40 that would work well for close and fast shots?

Just wondering here but input would be appreciated.

Doyle · October 21, 2014, 07:35 AM

Quote:

And is there a scope with more eye relief than a standard 3-9x40 that would work well for close and fast shots?

Depends on what you mean by "standard". Eye relief can vary quite a bit among the various manufacturers. Most problems are caused by the shooter himself (or the gunsmith that installed the scope) - either because the shooter is craning his neck too far forward or the scope is mounted too far to the rear. I've always like Leupolds. They have about a half inch more eye relief than most other brands.

MarkCO · October 21, 2014, 08:19 AM

Magnifiers magnify everything in the forward optics reticle.

I run a Burris MTAC 1.5-6 on my .450 Bushmaster. It is pretty close to optimum for that set-up. You could always look at a 1-5 or 1-6, but that will be at least twice the cost of the 1.5-6. Sure, you lose a little speed on follow-ups inside 30 yards or so, but that occasion is rare. The .450BM is pretty much a DRT cartridge if you hit.

gk1 · October 21, 2014, 09:51 PM

While magnifiers do magnify the dot, it's the same size relative to the target, so it would remain a 2 MOA (or whatever) dot.

deerslayerdave · October 22, 2014, 12:20 AM

Good point GK1 I hadn't thought of that, I'll either run a magnified red dot or maybe a Leupold 1.5-4x20 I believe either will take care of bambi just fine, thanks yall.

Erno86 · October 22, 2014, 04:10 PM

May I suggest checking out Vortex's 1-6x Generation II, with a ruggedly built 30mm tube and the crosshair reticle designed by Jerry Miculek --- On sale now at Brownells.

wogpotter · October 22, 2014, 04:16 PM

Really stupid question, feel free.

But what happens if you mount the magnifier in front of the red dot?

Wouldn't it (in theory) magnify the target, but leave the red dot alone?

Snyper · October 22, 2014, 10:25 PM

Quote:

But what happens if you mount the magnifier in front of the red dot?

I doubt the eye relief would allow that

jimbob86 · October 22, 2014, 11:01 PM

I dunno ..... I run a 3x9x32 on a hard kicking .270WIN bolt gun, and have hit running deer ..... never been hit with the scope......

Proper gun mounting, sight height, cheek weld and lots of dry fire, sufficient live fire practice ....... keeping your face where it is supposed to be, out of habit, will prevent that stuff.....

..... OTH, not putting in the practice will get you what my nephew got when he borrowed a rifle a week before season, put 1/2 a box through it from a bench, and when the deer showed up on opening morning, threw the gun to his shoulder, squeezed the trigger and broke his nose......

Recoiljunky · October 22, 2014, 11:09 PM

I have and still do run an eotech 512 with the 3x flip magnifier and the dot on it is still plenty small thru the magnifier for deer and hog out to 200 yards or so. haven't used it further than that. I have been wanting to get my hands on a Leupold mark 4 CQ/T as it seems like it would be a good fit for a close range deer and hog rifle out to about 250 yards. its a true 1-3 power and best part is if your batteries dead you can still see the reticle. down side is the price. so i nominate you to be the guinea pig Dave. and let us know how well it works

Vt.birdhunter · October 23, 2014, 06:40 AM

Quote:

is there a scope with more eye relief than a standard 3-9x40

You can mount a "scout" style scope.
They offer a middle ground for eye relief compared to short rifle ER and long pistol ER. On an AR-15 platform it puts the scope over the hand guard instead of sitting over your receiver.

You can also look for a standard scope with generous eye relief.
Burris timberline and compacts are worth looking at.

wogpotter · October 23, 2014, 09:11 AM

Check out "shotgun" scope sights too, they tend to have an eye relief in between the standard & scout types.

wogpotter · October 23, 2014, 09:13 AM

Quote:

I doubt the eye relief would allow that

Oh well, good idea but I hadn't thought of that

jmr40 · October 23, 2014, 02:06 PM

I just use a lightweight 1-4X20 shotgun scope. On 1X eye relief is more than enough, anyone can easily use one with both eyes open just like a dot. I find them faster to use than a dot up close and at longer ranges, much faster than forward mounted scout type scopes. Move it up to 4X and you have enough magnification for 400+ yard shots. They work bettter in low light and are a lot cheaper for equal quality too. I tried dots, but they are all gone in favor of small scopes.

Eye relief isn't just about preventing the scope from hitting you. Generous eye relief makes it far easier to find the target in your scope without having your eye positioned perfectly behind it. Makes quick snap shots much easier.

October 21, 2014, 12:28 AM	#1
deerslayerdave Junior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Posts: 11	Optics for hunting Alright I've got a noob question here, I've killed running deer up close with scoped rifles that only go down to 3x, and I've killed standing deer at over 100 yards with rifles that have non-magnified red dot sights and I've noticed neither setup is near ideal for both types of shots. I'd like an optic for a solid hitting AR like one in 450 bushmaster so I'd really like an optic mounted forward so i don't get idiot cuts... again cough cough . Is there a way run a magnifier and red dot sight without magnifying the reticle? And is there a scope with more eye relief than a standard 3-9x40 that would work well for close and fast shots? Just wondering here but input would be appreciated.

October 21, 2014, 08:19 AM	#3
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	Magnifiers magnify everything in the forward optics reticle. I run a Burris MTAC 1.5-6 on my .450 Bushmaster. It is pretty close to optimum for that set-up. You could always look at a 1-5 or 1-6, but that will be at least twice the cost of the 1.5-6. Sure, you lose a little speed on follow-ups inside 30 yards or so, but that occasion is rare. The .450BM is pretty much a DRT cartridge if you hit. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

October 22, 2014, 04:10 PM	#6
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	May I suggest checking out Vortex's 1-6x Generation II, with a ruggedly built 30mm tube and the crosshair reticle designed by Jerry Miculek --- On sale now at Brownells. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

October 22, 2014, 04:16 PM	#7
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Really stupid question, feel free. But what happens if you mount the magnifier in front of the red dot? Wouldn't it (in theory) magnify the target, but leave the red dot alone? __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

October 22, 2014, 11:01 PM	#9
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	re: "idiot cuts" I dunno ..... I run a 3x9x32 on a hard kicking .270WIN bolt gun, and have hit running deer ..... never been hit with the scope...... Proper gun mounting, sight height, cheek weld and lots of dry fire, sufficient live fire practice ....... keeping your face where it is supposed to be, out of habit, will prevent that stuff..... ..... OTH, not putting in the practice will get you what my nephew got when he borrowed a rifle a week before season, put 1/2 a box through it from a bench, and when the deer showed up on opening morning, threw the gun to his shoulder, squeezed the trigger and broke his nose......

October 21, 2014, 09:51 PM	#4
gk1 Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2002 Posts: 108	While magnifiers do magnify the dot, it's the same size relative to the target, so it would remain a 2 MOA (or whatever) dot.

October 22, 2014, 12:20 AM	#5
deerslayerdave Junior Member Join Date: February 26, 2012 Posts: 11	Good point GK1 I hadn't thought of that, I'll either run a magnified red dot or maybe a Leupold 1.5-4x20 I believe either will take care of bambi just fine, thanks yall.

October 22, 2014, 11:09 PM	#10
Recoiljunky Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2011 Location: Jupiter, florida Posts: 233	I have and still do run an eotech 512 with the 3x flip magnifier and the dot on it is still plenty small thru the magnifier for deer and hog out to 200 yards or so. haven't used it further than that. I have been wanting to get my hands on a Leupold mark 4 CQ/T as it seems like it would be a good fit for a close range deer and hog rifle out to about 250 yards. its a true 1-3 power and best part is if your batteries dead you can still see the reticle. down side is the price. so i nominate you to be the guinea pig Dave. and let us know how well it works

October 23, 2014, 09:11 AM	#12
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Check out "shotgun" scope sights too, they tend to have an eye relief in between the standard & scout types. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

October 23, 2014, 02:06 PM	#14
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I just use a lightweight 1-4X20 shotgun scope. On 1X eye relief is more than enough, anyone can easily use one with both eyes open just like a dot. I find them faster to use than a dot up close and at longer ranges, much faster than forward mounted scout type scopes. Move it up to 4X and you have enough magnification for 400+ yard shots. They work bettter in low light and are a lot cheaper for equal quality too. I tried dots, but they are all gone in favor of small scopes. Eye relief isn't just about preventing the scope from hitting you. Generous eye relief makes it far easier to find the target in your scope without having your eye positioned perfectly behind it. Makes quick snap shots much easier.