Questions/Opinions on 4350 powders

TexasSeaRay · February 13, 2008, 11:41 AM

I'm a big fan of Accurate powders. Have had outstanding luck with them for many years. Also like how clean they burn. In particular, I really like AA#2 and AA#5 powders for my handgun rounds--I get some very good groups and consistenty with that powder.

Any opinions on AA 4350 as opposed to the other brands fo 4350? Anyone had better luck or results with one particular brand of 4350 over another?

Interested to hear your experiences or opinions on this.

Jeff

saber9 · February 13, 2008, 04:23 PM

There are three different 4350 powders: IMR4350, Hodgdon's H4350, and AA 4350. These are all slow burning powders for use in high capacity rifle cases, such as .270, .30-06, and others. While they are all very similar, the manufacturers all warn against using the same loading data for all of them. Consult reloading manuals and the manufacturers load data for proper charges for each.

I have always used IMR4350, but would unhesitatingly use either Hodgdon or AA but only after consulting the manuals for proper charge weights.

Red_Eagle · February 13, 2008, 06:20 PM

So far the only flavor I've tried is IMR 4350 for my 30-06. Put 3 165gr Sierra Game king BTHPs into an inch at 100yds.

Slamfire · February 13, 2008, 09:50 PM

I have used at least a keg of AA4350 in the 30-06. Used some in the 270 Win, and am using it in 6.5 X 55.

Over my chronograph screens I can not tell any real difference between it and IMR 4350. My H4350 I can tell, and it takes me one grain more of H4350 to get the same velocity as IMR/AA 4350.

As for clean? The stuff seems to shoot as clean as IMR 4895, 4064, 3031. Etc. Stick powders tend to burn quite cleanly in high power rifles. So, the problems you might have with low pressure ammo in pistols is not really a concern.

Personnally, I think you could load all rifle cartridges adequately with two powders: IMR 4895 or IMR 4350.

TexasSeaRay · February 13, 2008, 11:33 PM

This is what I was looking for.

I've loaded with IMR 4350 many years ago early in the reloading process and before I started taking notes on my reloading.

Wasn't sure if there was a significant, or even insignificant, difference in between the brands of supposedly identically constructed powders.

I just like Accurate Arms powders and was thinking of going with their 4350 powder (and manufacturer's load recommendations). Although. . . there are some awful good write-ups and testimonials on the IMR.

Hell. Maybe I oughta just flip a coin.

Jeff

Sevens · February 14, 2008, 10:58 AM

I've always wished there was a trial size of both powder and bullets. Now I fully admit that I'm frugal (that's what I call it, some folks say I'm cheap!) but dropping $22 on a pound of powder may not seem like a whole lot of money, and I don't think it's too much to pay for it. But it becomes a real kick in the nuts when you find that it doesn't work for you and you have 12 ounces of it left over.

Trial size powder--let's say a quarter pound-- 4 ounces. This would allow you to build 30+ rounds of .30-06 which ought to be plenty for getting a few rounds on paper. I realize that it wouldn't cost 1/4 the price, but it would certainly be half as much or less.

An even better idea would be a multi-trial package. Imagine four little containers of different powders, the total weight of a pound or less for one price. You could try powders across different handgun loads and see how they perform. Handgun rounds take minuscule charges... a 4 ounce bottle would build many, many boxes of ammo and you could try 4 different pistol powders all across the different calibers you build on your bench.

Of course, there'd be liability and lawyer speak all around an idea like that-- only takes one numbskull to mix Blue Dot with Bullseye and turn his pistol in to scrap metal, but still... a guy can dream!

Smokey Joe · February 14, 2008, 11:39 AM

for IMR 4350. Have not tried the Hodgdon nor AA flavors.

But the IMR 4350 is MAGNIFICENT in my .30-'06 and its little brother the .243. Also very decent in my 8mm Mauser pseudo-scout.

Have had fair-to-middling results with IMR 4350 in the 6.5x55 Swede Mauser, and I read somewhere that the Swedes do not like IMR 4350 (darn!) so will keep on experimenting.

Texas Sea Ray--I would be leery of marrying one company's products were I you. If the AA's work, and you have tried them against the competition and the AA's outshine the competition, well & good. But if you load only AA because you have only tried AA, you might be missing something even better.

(As an example, I just checked my own powder cache, and found powders from Accurate Arms, Alliant, IMR, Hodgdon, and Winchester. Use what works.)

Wibb · February 14, 2008, 12:11 PM

I use IMR 4350 in everything from my .243 to my 7 Mag, .270, 30-06. I have no complaints and it seems to work in any weather conditions I've tried. I shoot year round here in St. Louis and the temps I've shot in are anywhere from 20 to 80+ in the summer. I found it especially accurate in my .243.

AlaskaMike · February 14, 2008, 12:35 PM

I shoot a lot of H4350 in .30-06, .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H, and I love it. I've never used the other 4350s so I can't compare them.

Mike

TexasSeaRay · February 14, 2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Texas Sea Ray--I would be leery of marrying one company's products were I you. If the AA's work, and you have tried them against the competition and the AA's outshine the competition, well & good. But if you load only AA because you have only tried AA, you might be missing something even better.

Oh, I'm not married to AA. I really do like AA#2 and AA#5 for a few of my better loads, but I also use Bullseye and W231 (two more of my favorites), 2400 for my magnum loads, red dot, blue dot, green dot, AA 2230, and Unique (which I DON'T like, but it's the best all-around standy-by powder ever made).

I'm just kicking tires here trying to see if it would be worth my while to try AA 4350 over IMR 4350--even though my gut tells me "no."

Jeff

Slamfire · February 14, 2008, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Have had fair-to-middling results with IMR 4350 in the 6.5x55 Swede Mauser, and I read somewhere that the Swedes do not like IMR 4350 (darn!) so will keep on experimenting.

Not in my experience. 43.0 grains with a 140 shoots well and is a duplicate of the Swedish service round.

M700 22" barrel

140 gr Hornday Spire Point 43.0 grs AA4350
R-P new brass CCI-200 OAL 2.990"

2 Feb 2008 T = 52 °F

Ave Vel = 2512
Std Dev = 27
ES = 72
High = 2547
Low = 2475
N = 5

143 gr Swedish Ball 1986 headstamp

2 Feb 2008 T = 54 °F

Ave Vel = 2470
Std Dev = 18
ES = 48
High = 2491
Low = 2443
N = 5

crowbeaner · February 14, 2008, 09:36 PM

Hey sevens; I'd be a happy camper if Hodgdon would put theirs and IMR and WW powders IN 4 POUND CONTAINERS! Then I could order just what I need and not have 3-4 lbs. of extra sitting around after loading 500 '06s. JMHO.

FatWhiteMan · February 15, 2008, 07:53 AM

I just bought some H4350 the other day to try in my Krag. I have been told that 40 over a 220 gr bullet is the original load and will be dead on with the rifle's battle sites. I haven't had a chance to try it yet though.

C17A · February 24, 2008, 09:58 PM

I echo the others who state that each brand of 4350 powder must use its own specific data in mind--do not use H4350 data for IMR4350, for instance.

What makes 4350-type powder accurate is its loading density. A load that fills the case to the base of the bullet, as 4350 does, is inherently more accurate than using a different powder with lots of air space.

My 30-06 hunting load is 56gr IMR4350 behind a Hornady 165gr BTSP (Hornady #3045), loaded into Remington or Federal cases with a Winchester WLR primer. My deer rifle is a bolt-action Interarms Mark X. Puts them into less than an inch at 100yds, and is under max load. Killed 14 deer with it, all one-shot stops (once I hit them, that is).

If you load for an M1 Garand, you must use a "service rifle" load that simulates M2 Ball, using a powder with a burn rate between IMR3031 at the fastest and IMR 4320 at the slowest. Using IMR4350 in a Garand will cause excessive port pressure which can bend the operating rod and batter the rifle. I have used IMR4895 and AA2520 to get useful loads, but their loading density is much different than IMR4350. I would never fire one of my hunting loads out of my Garand, not even once. Yet I don't hesitate to shoot service rifle loads out of my hunting rifle.

qajaq59 · February 26, 2008, 07:19 AM

I use the H4350 for my Swiss 7.5 x 55, and the hog hunting loads in my Marlin 30-30. It works well in both.

Smokey Joe · February 26, 2008, 10:56 AM

Further reading tells me from several sources that IMR 4350 works just fine in the Swedes. Since that's such a good powder in several other cartridges I reload, from .243 Win to 8mm Mauser, I'll keep experimenting with it in my 6.5x55 Swede.

Nice to have an all-around "medium rifle" powder.

(Oddly, though, I use H380 in loading .308 Win and .300 WSM.)

ForneyRider · February 26, 2008, 11:10 AM

Reloder 19 measures better than IMR 4350 in my Lee Perfect Powder measure.

But I have plenty of IMR 4350 for loading with scale and trickler.

I have made several loads for 7mm Mag with IMR 4350, RL 19, and RL22 to see what is best for my needs. But weather hasn't been good on days I have time to shoot.

I may also get some IMR 4831sc, H1000 and Reloder 25 for heavier grain bullets in the 7mm Mag.

elkman06 · February 26, 2008, 01:12 PM

IMR4350 in my .270 and 30/06. No complaints, good to very good accuracy depending on the rifle. I'm running very clost to 3k fps and the rifles shoot great.
elkman

W. C. Quantrill · February 29, 2008, 09:58 PM

I use both IMR4350 and H4350 in my .30-06. I have used the max load of 58 gr under a 165 gr boattail with excellent success. As we hunt some very difficult country and the shots tend to be very long, I can get excellent energy but most especially excellent accuracy with this load. At 300 yards normal shooting distance, I am getting excellent bullet performance with MOA accuracy from my Remington M700BDLH.

I cannot scientifically prove this yet, but I am of the notion that the H4350 is not as temperature sensitive as the IMR. Overall, I like the 4350 powder because I can get the performance without the sharp recoil I was getting with some of the other powders previously.

onlybrowning · March 1, 2008, 05:50 PM

Sevens: some companies do offer trial packages of powder. Hodgdon is one of them.

I use H-4350 because I am afraid of having temperature sensitivities. I can attest to all "Extreme" Hodgdon powders being insensitive. I have shot at 0 degrees, and at 90+ degrees and never have to change zero.

I am scared to use all other powders because of this. I am not scientific in my findings of course, because I have very little experience using other brands of powder.

45Marlin carbine · March 1, 2008, 07:14 PM

there is also an online company selling 'sample' packs of bullets including Hornady, Nosler, Berger and a couple others. can't recall the name but I saw it on 'PerfectUnion' site.

hodaka · March 1, 2008, 07:15 PM

I have found AA4350 and IMR 4350 to be pretty much the same as far as my loads are concerned. My favorite for my 6.5-06 and 25-06, although H4831 ain't bad.

FatWhiteMan · March 2, 2008, 07:59 AM

"I cannot scientifically prove this yet, but I am of the notion that the H4350 is not as temperature sensitive as the IMR. Overall, I like the 4350 powder because I can get the performance without the sharp recoil I was getting with some of the other powders previously."

Hodgdon does make that claim on their website:

Extreme Velocity Spread
For Temperatures Between
0o - 125o

Cartridge: 30-06
Case: W-W
Primer: WLR
165 gr. Hornady SP

W. C. Quantrill · March 2, 2008, 11:00 AM

I dont know if I were laying in a snow bank at 0* whether I would notice a 67fps drop in performance or not, but it is nice to know that for once, my suspicions were correct

.

kojak · March 2, 2008, 11:27 AM

It is not true that the 4350s are more accurate than other powders that don't fill the case. It's a classic misconception because of not telling the full story.

Here's what I found out:
I own a .30-06 Tikka and load 150 and 165 grain bullets. My 165 grain load is a full case of AA4350 (57gr or so, slightly below max, too lazy to look in my papers) behind a Hornady Interbond. That load shoots 1 MOA.

my other load is 50 grs. of VV-N140 behind a 150gr Sierra Pro-Hunter. This load shoots .25 MOA despite having much empty space in the case.

All else being equal it is better, more accurate to have a full case. In practice often other things matter more. N140 is significantly more offensive than 4350, so it's obviously far more accurate because there is much less turbulence when the bullet leaves the barrel. The more progressive the powder the more likely the powder is still burning when the bullet leaves the barrel which causes turbulence at this critical moment.

Vihtavuori claims that N140 is the best powder even for 168 grain bullets which is probably true, N150 (their 4350 variant) is only mroe accurate from 180gr onwards.

Despite that findings I still like AA4350 better. Yes, N140 behind the Sierra is far more accurate. But this is a hunting rifle, if I wanted accuracy I'd use Matchkings.. As it happens hunting bullets are far more inaccurate, most of the time even more inaccurate the more expensive. That is because complicated bullet design causes inaccuracy. The Hornady Interbond is a fine unting bullet, bonded, thick jacked. But there is no way this bullet can ever be as accurate as the Sierra with it's ultra-perfect consistent thin jacket. And there's no way the Sierra can ever perform as well on game at all velocity ranges as the Interbond.

In the end we musn't forget that we load for a hunting rifle, it's a tool. If we sacrifice performance on that goal for accuracy gain we are making a mistake. It would be accuracy with no purpose.

Accuracy means for me I choose the components best suited for my hunting goals and then try to optimize accuracy with these components. A good hunting load with 1 MOA accuracy is far better than .25 MOA with a compromised load especially considering 1 MOA is more than I'm capable of shooting when under stress.

February 13, 2008, 11:41 AM	#1
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	Questions/Opinions on 4350 powders I'm a big fan of Accurate powders. Have had outstanding luck with them for many years. Also like how clean they burn. In particular, I really like AA#2 and AA#5 powders for my handgun rounds--I get some very good groups and consistenty with that powder. Any opinions on AA 4350 as opposed to the other brands fo 4350? Anyone had better luck or results with one particular brand of 4350 over another? Interested to hear your experiences or opinions on this. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

February 14, 2008, 10:58 AM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I've always wished there was a trial size of both powder and bullets. Now I fully admit that I'm frugal (that's what I call it, some folks say I'm cheap!) but dropping $22 on a pound of powder may not seem like a whole lot of money, and I don't think it's too much to pay for it. But it becomes a real kick in the nuts when you find that it doesn't work for you and you have 12 ounces of it left over. Trial size powder--let's say a quarter pound-- 4 ounces. This would allow you to build 30+ rounds of .30-06 which ought to be plenty for getting a few rounds on paper. I realize that it wouldn't cost 1/4 the price, but it would certainly be half as much or less. An even better idea would be a multi-trial package. Imagine four little containers of different powders, the total weight of a pound or less for one price. You could try powders across different handgun loads and see how they perform. Handgun rounds take minuscule charges... a 4 ounce bottle would build many, many boxes of ammo and you could try 4 different pistol powders all across the different calibers you build on your bench. Of course, there'd be liability and lawyer speak all around an idea like that-- only takes one numbskull to mix Blue Dot with Bullseye and turn his pistol in to scrap metal, but still... a guy can dream! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 14, 2008, 11:39 AM	#7
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Another vote... for IMR 4350. Have not tried the Hodgdon nor AA flavors. But the IMR 4350 is MAGNIFICENT in my .30-'06 and its little brother the .243. Also very decent in my 8mm Mauser pseudo-scout. Have had fair-to-middling results with IMR 4350 in the 6.5x55 Swede Mauser, and I read somewhere that the Swedes do not like IMR 4350 (darn!) so will keep on experimenting. Texas Sea Ray--I would be leery of marrying one company's products were I you. If the AA's work, and you have tried them against the competition and the AA's outshine the competition, well & good. But if you load only AA because you have only tried AA, you might be missing something even better. (As an example, I just checked my own powder cache, and found powders from Accurate Arms, Alliant, IMR, Hodgdon, and Winchester. Use what works.) __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

February 14, 2008, 09:36 PM	#12
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	Hey sevens; I'd be a happy camper if Hodgdon would put theirs and IMR and WW powders IN 4 POUND CONTAINERS! Then I could order just what I need and not have 3-4 lbs. of extra sitting around after loading 500 '06s. JMHO. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

February 26, 2008, 10:56 AM	#16
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Swedes & IMR 4350 Further reading tells me from several sources that IMR 4350 works just fine in the Swedes. Since that's such a good powder in several other cartridges I reload, from .243 Win to 8mm Mauser, I'll keep experimenting with it in my 6.5x55 Swede. Nice to have an all-around "medium rifle" powder. (Oddly, though, I use H380 in loading .308 Win and .300 WSM.) __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

February 13, 2008, 04:23 PM	#2
saber9 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Location: West Texas Posts: 165	There are three different 4350 powders: IMR4350, Hodgdon's H4350, and AA 4350. These are all slow burning powders for use in high capacity rifle cases, such as .270, .30-06, and others. While they are all very similar, the manufacturers all warn against using the same loading data for all of them. Consult reloading manuals and the manufacturers load data for proper charges for each. I have always used IMR4350, but would unhesitatingly use either Hodgdon or AA but only after consulting the manuals for proper charge weights.

February 13, 2008, 06:20 PM	#3
Red_Eagle Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Western NY Posts: 598	So far the only flavor I've tried is IMR 4350 for my 30-06. Put 3 165gr Sierra Game king BTHPs into an inch at 100yds.

February 13, 2008, 09:50 PM	#4
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I have used at least a keg of AA4350 in the 30-06. Used some in the 270 Win, and am using it in 6.5 X 55. Over my chronograph screens I can not tell any real difference between it and IMR 4350. My H4350 I can tell, and it takes me one grain more of H4350 to get the same velocity as IMR/AA 4350. As for clean? The stuff seems to shoot as clean as IMR 4895, 4064, 3031. Etc. Stick powders tend to burn quite cleanly in high power rifles. So, the problems you might have with low pressure ammo in pistols is not really a concern. Personnally, I think you could load all rifle cartridges adequately with two powders: IMR 4895 or IMR 4350.

February 13, 2008, 11:33 PM	#5
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	This is what I was looking for. I've loaded with IMR 4350 many years ago early in the reloading process and before I started taking notes on my reloading. Wasn't sure if there was a significant, or even insignificant, difference in between the brands of supposedly identically constructed powders. I just like Accurate Arms powders and was thinking of going with their 4350 powder (and manufacturer's load recommendations). Although. . . there are some awful good write-ups and testimonials on the IMR. Hell. Maybe I oughta just flip a coin. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

February 14, 2008, 12:11 PM	#8
Wibb Member Join Date: August 13, 2006 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 44	I use IMR 4350 in everything from my .243 to my 7 Mag, .270, 30-06. I have no complaints and it seems to work in any weather conditions I've tried. I shoot year round here in St. Louis and the temps I've shot in are anywhere from 20 to 80+ in the summer. I found it especially accurate in my .243.

February 14, 2008, 12:35 PM	#9
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	I shoot a lot of H4350 in .30-06, .338 Win Mag and .375 H&H, and I love it. I've never used the other 4350s so I can't compare them. Mike

February 15, 2008, 07:53 AM	#13
FatWhiteMan Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: Appalachia Posts: 96	I just bought some H4350 the other day to try in my Krag. I have been told that 40 over a 220 gr bullet is the original load and will be dead on with the rifle's battle sites. I haven't had a chance to try it yet though.

February 24, 2008, 09:58 PM	#14
C17A Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 37	I echo the others who state that each brand of 4350 powder must use its own specific data in mind--do not use H4350 data for IMR4350, for instance. What makes 4350-type powder accurate is its loading density. A load that fills the case to the base of the bullet, as 4350 does, is inherently more accurate than using a different powder with lots of air space. My 30-06 hunting load is 56gr IMR4350 behind a Hornady 165gr BTSP (Hornady #3045), loaded into Remington or Federal cases with a Winchester WLR primer. My deer rifle is a bolt-action Interarms Mark X. Puts them into less than an inch at 100yds, and is under max load. Killed 14 deer with it, all one-shot stops (once I hit them, that is). If you load for an M1 Garand, you must use a "service rifle" load that simulates M2 Ball, using a powder with a burn rate between IMR3031 at the fastest and IMR 4320 at the slowest. Using IMR4350 in a Garand will cause excessive port pressure which can bend the operating rod and batter the rifle. I have used IMR4895 and AA2520 to get useful loads, but their loading density is much different than IMR4350. I would never fire one of my hunting loads out of my Garand, not even once. Yet I don't hesitate to shoot service rifle loads out of my hunting rifle.

February 26, 2008, 07:19 AM	#15
qajaq59 Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2005 Posts: 139	I use the H4350 for my Swiss 7.5 x 55, and the hog hunting loads in my Marlin 30-30. It works well in both.

February 26, 2008, 11:10 AM	#17
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	Reloder 19 measures better than IMR 4350 in my Lee Perfect Powder measure. But I have plenty of IMR 4350 for loading with scale and trickler. I have made several loads for 7mm Mag with IMR 4350, RL 19, and RL22 to see what is best for my needs. But weather hasn't been good on days I have time to shoot. I may also get some IMR 4831sc, H1000 and Reloder 25 for heavier grain bullets in the 7mm Mag. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done.

February 26, 2008, 01:12 PM	#18
elkman06 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 885	IMR4350 in my .270 and 30/06. No complaints, good to very good accuracy depending on the rifle. I'm running very clost to 3k fps and the rifles shoot great. elkman

February 29, 2008, 09:58 PM	#19
W. C. Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2008 Location: No Man's Land Posts: 354	I use both IMR4350 and H4350 in my .30-06. I have used the max load of 58 gr under a 165 gr boattail with excellent success. As we hunt some very difficult country and the shots tend to be very long, I can get excellent energy but most especially excellent accuracy with this load. At 300 yards normal shooting distance, I am getting excellent bullet performance with MOA accuracy from my Remington M700BDLH. I cannot scientifically prove this yet, but I am of the notion that the H4350 is not as temperature sensitive as the IMR. Overall, I like the 4350 powder because I can get the performance without the sharp recoil I was getting with some of the other powders previously. __________________ NRA Life Whittington Center Life

March 1, 2008, 05:50 PM	#20
onlybrowning Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2005 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 275	Sevens: some companies do offer trial packages of powder. Hodgdon is one of them. I use H-4350 because I am afraid of having temperature sensitivities. I can attest to all "Extreme" Hodgdon powders being insensitive. I have shot at 0 degrees, and at 90+ degrees and never have to change zero. I am scared to use all other powders because of this. I am not scientific in my findings of course, because I have very little experience using other brands of powder.

March 1, 2008, 07:14 PM	#21
45Marlin carbine Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2007 Location: South-Western North Carolina Posts: 1,124	there is also an online company selling 'sample' packs of bullets including Hornady, Nosler, Berger and a couple others. can't recall the name but I saw it on 'PerfectUnion' site.

March 1, 2008, 07:15 PM	#22
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	I have found AA4350 and IMR 4350 to be pretty much the same as far as my loads are concerned. My favorite for my 6.5-06 and 25-06, although H4831 ain't bad.

March 2, 2008, 07:59 AM	#23
FatWhiteMan Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: Appalachia Posts: 96	"I cannot scientifically prove this yet, but I am of the notion that the H4350 is not as temperature sensitive as the IMR. Overall, I like the 4350 powder because I can get the performance without the sharp recoil I was getting with some of the other powders previously." Hodgdon does make that claim on their website: Extreme Velocity Spread For Temperatures Between 0o - 125o Cartridge: 30-06 Case: W-W Primer: WLR 165 gr. Hornady SP

March 2, 2008, 11:00 AM	#24
W. C. Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2008 Location: No Man's Land Posts: 354	I dont know if I were laying in a snow bank at 0* whether I would notice a 67fps drop in performance or not, but it is nice to know that for once, my suspicions were correct. __________________ NRA Life Whittington Center Life

March 2, 2008, 11:27 AM	#25
kojak Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Posts: 98	It is not true that the 4350s are more accurate than other powders that don't fill the case. It's a classic misconception because of not telling the full story. Here's what I found out: I own a .30-06 Tikka and load 150 and 165 grain bullets. My 165 grain load is a full case of AA4350 (57gr or so, slightly below max, too lazy to look in my papers) behind a Hornady Interbond. That load shoots 1 MOA. my other load is 50 grs. of VV-N140 behind a 150gr Sierra Pro-Hunter. This load shoots .25 MOA despite having much empty space in the case. All else being equal it is better, more accurate to have a full case. In practice often other things matter more. N140 is significantly more offensive than 4350, so it's obviously far more accurate because there is much less turbulence when the bullet leaves the barrel. The more progressive the powder the more likely the powder is still burning when the bullet leaves the barrel which causes turbulence at this critical moment. Vihtavuori claims that N140 is the best powder even for 168 grain bullets which is probably true, N150 (their 4350 variant) is only mroe accurate from 180gr onwards. Despite that findings I still like AA4350 better. Yes, N140 behind the Sierra is far more accurate. But this is a hunting rifle, if I wanted accuracy I'd use Matchkings.. As it happens hunting bullets are far more inaccurate, most of the time even more inaccurate the more expensive. That is because complicated bullet design causes inaccuracy. The Hornady Interbond is a fine unting bullet, bonded, thick jacked. But there is no way this bullet can ever be as accurate as the Sierra with it's ultra-perfect consistent thin jacket. And there's no way the Sierra can ever perform as well on game at all velocity ranges as the Interbond. In the end we musn't forget that we load for a hunting rifle, it's a tool. If we sacrifice performance on that goal for accuracy gain we are making a mistake. It would be accuracy with no purpose. Accuracy means for me I choose the components best suited for my hunting goals and then try to optimize accuracy with these components. A good hunting load with 1 MOA accuracy is far better than .25 MOA with a compromised load especially considering 1 MOA is more than I'm capable of shooting when under stress.