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April 11, 2013, 03:21 PM | #51 | |
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April 11, 2013, 03:35 PM | #52 | |
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April 11, 2013, 03:40 PM | #53 |
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Being professionally involved with the DOD bidding process, my experience tells me that the rifle contract was one that had likely been negotiated and planned for almost a year, if not longer. This was not a quick-fix deal. So tinfoilhattery notwithstanding, Remington is a large DOD contractor and would be foolish not to provide the contracted goods in accordance with the provisions in the agreement. We peons can do what we please to coax them out of NY. One thing really has nothing to do with the other.
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April 11, 2013, 05:34 PM | #54 |
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i guess i see this... although i would rather them make their guns here in america then somewhere over seas. remington hires 1000s of americans. just because they are located in new york doesnt mean they have to agree with the people making these laws... just my opinion
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April 11, 2013, 05:39 PM | #55 |
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Warning: I've edited a couple of posts. Let's discuss this like adults, please, without throwing insults around.
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April 11, 2013, 05:51 PM | #56 |
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supporting and protecting our 2A rights is far more important than any number of jobs in any state.
I had a 700 in mind for this fall but will now be looking at some companies that do support my/our 2A rights |
April 11, 2013, 06:24 PM | #57 | |
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It's a bit like allowing a local company to make meth for export only. My moral bs-ometer is red-lined. Sorry, I know that the word "moral" offends some people. Why would I pay for a Remington that is built in NY and help pay for the operation of a state government to keep its own citizens from using what is built there? I realize that the Remington offices may not be able to make a stand as they are not in charge of their corporate destiny, but I can. I choose to avoid the Remington aisle. I always avoided Mossberg, so... In local news, I was a lotta bit bummed about Magpul leaving, but if Colorado is going down the "we don't trust you normal peons with big boy rights" route, then Magpul has every right to walk. If the state began putting random limits, levies and penalties on what I and other citizens could do in my field of livelihood, I would probably have to leave as well.
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April 11, 2013, 06:29 PM | #58 | |
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At this point of this steamrolling by the government we have few choices. #1 is to vote out the people who are voting for these new laws. #2 is to boycott companies that do not support our rights by staying where they cannot even legally sell the product they make. Think about it, New York residents make a gun they cannot legally buy? This is right? We have to choke the state's revenue with our pocketbooks. Or, we can write more letters and emails that were ignored, we can make more phone calls that some minimum wage person fields and rolls their eyes at, we can march at more and more rallys where we are clearly the majority and we are clearly ignored because the lawmakers already made up their mind or we can show any future state that is considering these laws that we will not go there on vacation, we will not buy anything made in their state and we will do whatever we can to keep our money out of their packets. We have our votes and we have our cash. They don't listen to anything else. Yes, if they don't want to support us then they are supporting them. It has become that serious. They are not only not backing off, they are going forward at a faster pace. One state at a time.
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Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Last edited by larryh1108; April 11, 2013 at 06:35 PM. |
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April 11, 2013, 06:54 PM | #59 | |
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Bingo!!! i will continue to buy Remington products. The folks who run Remington have absolutely no say in the matter of moving. The head of Cerberus Global Investments is former vice president Dan Quayle. i'm sure he would take any complaints about the failure of Remington to move to another state. http://investing.businessweek.com/re...ivcapId=139449 |
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April 11, 2013, 06:56 PM | #60 |
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that's to bad. I don't have much need for anything Remington so i suppose This wont affect me much but if i do it'll certainly be used... No new money from me.
Ha. You know how much money the COULD make if they moved? I bet my state/city would LOVE it if a brand new manufacturing company came with a back order of over 12 months and could potentially create upto 1,200 jobs. I bet they'd give them all kinds of tax breaks.
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April 11, 2013, 07:10 PM | #61 | |
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April 11, 2013, 07:41 PM | #62 |
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I dont think it makes since for a company like remington to move there entire manufacturing plant. the people at remington cant control what the state legislature does. all i know is that all of my remington guns are great guns and thats what i care about. i am a fan of remington but id have to say my favorite gun company is ruger. they just seem to do it right.
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April 11, 2013, 08:19 PM | #63 | |
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That might be an additional consideration. |
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April 12, 2013, 02:18 AM | #64 |
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Remington takes the money from NY/Pentagon deal
Yes, if you do business with the govt you will play by their rules and these often include favors to political supporters of the current admin, though this one has been in there for some time through multiple administrations and is baked on now.
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April 12, 2013, 10:44 AM | #65 | |
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"$80 Million in our coffers is far more important than that 'little book' you call a constitution." Maybe you don't see it that way, but I do. By the way, on Mossberg and them not moving, they have at least publicly denounced proposed and passed gun laws. Remington hasn't done that. Remington is happy to take your money while watching the Constitution go up in flames. I do want to make it clear...I don't care if gun manufacturers stay in states that clearly infringe on 2A rights. I say this because the costs of moving in some cases can be too much for a company to handle. If a company chooses to move, that's great, and I fully support it. But if you can't move, that's fine, I just need a statement as to why you can't and showing support for the 2A. |
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April 12, 2013, 12:23 PM | #66 | |
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If you don't believe me then you go through the effort to hunt down the specifications for the contract and show me wrong, I have seen enough of them in the past. As for who is giving who what, This is an Army Contract, the Army put it out, the Army ran the test, the Army announced the winner, The Army will be doing the paying. The Army isn't Congress and the SF Community doesn't offer "backroom deals" for political reasons like this. Everyone get's to make there own decisions on this, but I do not see a reason to boycott or badmouth Remington on this one. Not when I know who these rifles are for, our US Army Green Berets.
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April 12, 2013, 12:32 PM | #67 | |
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What Remington has made is the Army's and the Marines best sniper rifles for about the last 60 years.
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Colt M1911, AR-15 | S&W Model 19, Model 27| SIG P238 | Berreta 85B Cheetah | Ruger Blackhawk .357MAG, Bearcat "Shopkeeper" .22LR| Remington Marine Magnum SP 12GA., Model 700 SPS .223 |
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April 12, 2013, 12:52 PM | #68 | |
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Remington Arms isn't some family business that gets to make such statements as you demand. They were owned by Cerberus, which is a multinational investment corporation that only bought Remington Arms (and Bushmaster, etc) as a business entity. Cerberus specializes in buying distressed companies. But after Sandy Hook, Cerberus has been divesting itself of Freedom Group (Remington, Bushmaster, DPMS) because of the stigma of manufacturing firearms in this climate. Remington firearms are manufactured by a bunch of Joe Schmoes who have nothing to do with the people who make the decisions you're talking about. The people who have the power to do that, instead of making a pro-gun statement, are doing their best to distance themselves from Remington. You're making demands of a group of people that are powerless to do what you say |
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April 12, 2013, 12:55 PM | #69 | |
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April 12, 2013, 12:58 PM | #70 |
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Sort of proves what i said in earlier posts on firearms manufacturers not selling to government agencies. In the end it all comes down to money if one stops selling others will be queuing to take their place. If some of the ones not selling were offered similar contracts you would see a change of attitude.
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April 12, 2013, 01:04 PM | #71 | ||
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I was just going through their products list, those pages were slow.
It's why I said this .... Quote:
I never said Remington should make any statements or take any stance. I never said they even possess the freedom to do so, I do not know what they can and can't do as they are owned by Freedom Group. What I did say is that this Contract was announced for competition over 3 years ago in 2009. It's old business. Only two companies were able or wanted to compete for it. Remington won it, and the award has nothing at all to do with a back room deal to keep Remington silent on the gun control debate. As I said before Quote:
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April 12, 2013, 01:17 PM | #72 | |
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Did you know that if the Government Opens a Contract for Competition that pretty much anyone can compete. You can even start your own brand new Company just to compete for a new contract. They are not generally closed to competition. Actually, more correctly, there are what are called "Sole Source Contracts". These are supposed to be avoided when possible, but they are allowed if only a single source for the required product exists or if for some other reason it just makes too much sense to only buy from the one manufacturor selected. An Example would by Wireless Networking equipment. Unless this has changed recently, only one Company manufactures wireless networking equipment to sufficient standard that it can be used on Classified networks. Therefore if the Government want's to use wireless equipment, they must buy from this company, ergo, a sole source contract. Also, if a contract calls for something that could come from other manufacturers, but the government already has invested significant resources and money into spares, warranties, etc, they can sole source because if they switched manufacturers it would cost them big money in wasted equipment they already have on-hand. These are example that justify a sole source contract. Otherwise it's the wild west, everyone is invited to the party although US Manufacturers are given the prime seat at the table over foreign companies. One thing about Military type contracts when it comes to tactical type equipment, there are usually very serious specifications for things like being able to operate in very harsh climates, and or specific requirements like in this one, the barrels had to be easily removed, ie ... buy the Snipers themselves, not just by an armorer or maintenance guys. I hope this is helpful. EDIT: I said I wasn't going to hunt this down but here is the contract notice anyway. https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...f827e&_cview=1 Notice the date of this notice is Jan. 2008.
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Colt M1911, AR-15 | S&W Model 19, Model 27| SIG P238 | Berreta 85B Cheetah | Ruger Blackhawk .357MAG, Bearcat "Shopkeeper" .22LR| Remington Marine Magnum SP 12GA., Model 700 SPS .223 Last edited by lcpiper; April 12, 2013 at 01:29 PM. |
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April 12, 2013, 03:01 PM | #73 |
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Would not prevent me from buying a Remington if they had what I wanted.
Jerry
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April 12, 2013, 03:20 PM | #74 | ||
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I think I'm going to change the way I look at this then. This might make more sense and be more palatable. Don't think of it as me not giving my support to Remington, or other companies that don't seem to care about individual rights, as long as they're getting paid. Think of it as I'm going to go out of my way to support companies that will get in the thick of the debate, and do everything they can to support 2A. Remington does what Remington does because they have to. That's fine. But if I can buy my new bolt gun from a company that is actively supporting and fighting for my rights, I'll buy from them instead. |
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April 12, 2013, 04:50 PM | #75 | |
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Thank you. I won't not buy from a particular company that is ambivalent but I will go out of my way to buy from companies active in preserving our rights, whether by moving, donating to our cause or making statements against the way things are being done to it's customers. All of my efforts did nothing to change the minds here in CT so I'll let my $$ do the talking. Money seems to be the driving force in this country. I'll go out of my way to make sure it goes to those who care about us. My ex worked for a company that was bought by Cerberus. Cerberus is all about buying a struggling company, cutting jobs, cleaning up the bottom line and then selling it. They are cold, calculated and care only about the bottom line. That's fine. We can be the same way. If Cerberus owns Remington then all the more reason to see that they get none of my money. There are many more choices out there that makes similar products. Brand loyalty means less now than ever.
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