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Old September 18, 2010, 06:35 PM   #26
leadcounsel
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Did the person have an articulable reason to believe that he was in jeopardy? How about preclusion?

What evidence can he provide?
This about sums it up...

Quote:
Two guys emerged from an old sedan about 50 feet away and stated they were out of work out of cash and needed a loan. They kept on walking toward me as though I was dead meat if I didn't fork over.
Given the context, was he supposed to wait and see?

I suppose he could have tried to flee, but my state doesn't require you to flee. It empowers you to stand your ground.
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Old September 18, 2010, 06:42 PM   #27
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Sounds like a modern day Walter Mitty to me. . .

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Old September 18, 2010, 06:51 PM   #28
Glenn E. Meyer
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Two guys emerged from an old sedan about 50 feet away and stated they were out of work out of cash and needed a loan. They kept on walking toward me as though I was dead meat if I didn't fork over.
If any of you reread the OP and think that this is justification, you really don't know very much.

Walking and talking are not a lethal threat. Get real and stop posturing.

Also, if you stand your ground when you can flee just because it's a law, then you are flat out stupid.

You are not empowered to be stupid. YMMV.
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Old September 18, 2010, 07:38 PM   #29
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Hard to tell from that.. but the Texas police seemed to think their judgment was okay.. so who's to argue with that??

I wouldn't have shot the guys until I was sure I was in some serious danger.
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Old September 18, 2010, 08:12 PM   #30
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but the Texas police seemed to think their judgment was okay..
Or so the story goes.
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Old September 18, 2010, 08:22 PM   #31
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Two guys were walking towards you asking for money and you shot them both. Thats your justification for shooting them
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Old September 18, 2010, 09:25 PM   #32
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+1 Walter Mitty

If this story were true, the OP would have given his lawyer a heart attack by posting it.

If this story were true, and the OP never consulted an attorney, the OP would be an idiot.

Ergo, seems false to me.

And not justified, based on the post. It's possible that pertinent facts were omitted.

But wow...
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Old September 18, 2010, 09:36 PM   #33
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50ft is too far and just being asked for money is not cause for a reasonable fear of death or severe injury. Yes, all the warning signs are there: They pull up in a car which needs gas but apparently they need to ask someone who is alone at 1am for money and it takes both of them to do that? It just doesn't add up. But at 50 feet and no overtly threatening words (we are of course missing much of the nonverbal dialogue that took place) he was IMHO not even remotely justified to fire when he did.

If I'm ever in a situation like this the Marines have already given me a very good template for escalation of force:

Shout- verbal warning

Show- show you have a weapon and are prepared to use it

Shove- (applied as situation allows, in this one I would skip) Physically neutralizing the threat

Shoot- controlled pair to the upper torso, box drill if confronted by multiple targets
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Old September 18, 2010, 11:55 PM   #34
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Gents,
I read the postings and frankly I don't think any of you have clue. I'm sitting on 158 grain 38 that went in the front. Until you've been shot at or worse SHOT keep quite. My hesitation got me shot. If ever it happens that I'm confronted again "NO HESITATION". I'll empty the clip and/or cylinder. Mygila aka Myron Mangum
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Old September 19, 2010, 12:12 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by mygila:
Until you've been shot at or worse SHOT keep quite.
Look, I'm sorry that your hesitation got you shot, but to say that we have to keep quiet if we haven't been shot is asinine. Every one here has the right to give their opinion, even if they have no holes in them... thank you!

About the OP. This story was supposedly pulled from another source with no way of verifying the truth of it all. I'm not going to call it BS, but I never believe anything that isn't verifiable thru multiple stories and sites or at least a first hand experience. I won't even waist my time trying to decide if it was justifiable.
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Old September 19, 2010, 12:42 AM   #36
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And I'd agree, being shot at in your life does not qualify you to offer an opinion (or not being shot at does not disqualify your right to offer one either).

My perspective, given the story related in the thread, is that simply asking for money is not a threat in itself. If it were, given the number of times I get hit up weekly for cash for gas, or whatever, I wouldn't be able to afford the ammo to shoot them all, even just a single shot per "bad guy asking for cash." I call BS on the story.
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Old September 19, 2010, 02:46 AM   #37
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verbal warning a must; you're a second or two from taking these guys out(and when I say verbal warning I mean@gunpoint). that being said, I would think he would tell the cops he gave a verbal warning so in my mind the story has lost some meat&potatoes. otherwise this guy was literally startled in a parking lot as earlier mentioned and his response to verbal communication from a distance was to to fire off 2 shots@two unknown individuals.

if theres anything to defend this guy(such as mentioned theres just too little info), its always easy to play monday mrng quarterback and this guy might have felt very threatened in this particular situation. There have been many stories about the dangers in parking lots: the ND college call killed and deserted in MN, etc, etc
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Old September 19, 2010, 03:02 AM   #38
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If the parking lots I get to park in are lighted, it's a rare experience. I drive truck for a living, and delivery places are rarely in a nice neighborhood. And I'd bet, even in Texas, if I dropped everyone who approached me, I'd have been jailed years ago. Might not even know about that fancy "internet" thing I hear talked about all the time.

My usual experience is not at a distance of more than a phone booth sized area, I'll be asleep and have a knock on the truck door. Given that it could well be a cop knocking, showing a firearm might not be prudent, and I'm usually coming out of a deep sleep. So, quick assessment of a threat is vital in my case. And I've only rarely even shown a firearm, let alone shot someone knocking on the door begging for cash.

Add to this, I have lost many friends over the years to thieves who robbed and killed them right in the truck, I've been trucking for around 35 years (so far). Been parked in places most mortal men fear to tread in daylight, let alone darkness. And I'll not say I have never thought of drawing a gun on a person coming up on my truck asking for money. Maybe I've been damned lucky. But even in Texas, unless you shot someone clearly showing a weapon, and intent to kill or harm you badly, you're not going home that night in your car, and you're not going to be looked at seriously by the cops before they clear your name. That story sounded more like a Wild West shootout at High Noon than a legitimate story.
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Old September 19, 2010, 09:21 AM   #39
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Add me to the list that is calling BS
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Old September 19, 2010, 10:07 AM   #40
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I agree. This story sounds fishy to me too. The idea that those of us who carry would just blaze away at people who look suspicious is what fuels the anti gun movement
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Old September 19, 2010, 10:18 AM   #41
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Like almost everyone said - not enough info. This is one of those situations where "it depends" is the catch phrase. I can say that shooting in the shin is stupid IMO. Walking to your car (in the future) @ 1 AM with no one around with your gun drawn is way stupid - hand on your gun with hyper vigilance - not so stupid.

With that said, parking lots are dangerous places whether your a 6' 4" man or a 5' 1" woman. This is reason I try really hard not to park at an indoor parking garage even if it means walking through the rain or snow. If I'm with my wife & kids, I drop them off if I can and then park the car. If somehow I end up having to park indoors, I do have my hand on my weapon. If my wife is with me, she's always on my left side 'cause I'm right side strong. All this may sound like hyper vigilance that borders on paranoia, but better that than harmed or dead.
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Old September 19, 2010, 01:13 PM   #42
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Old September 19, 2010, 01:50 PM   #43
Glenn E. Meyer
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Yep, I'm calling down the curtains on this one. If someone can come up with documented, reliable reports, let one of us know. Otherwise, Glenn D. is correct.

Closed.
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