Off-Beat revolvers

[gyvel]

Not all that unusual compared to many that have been mentioned, but here's my Webley Mk. IV.

And that's a nice commercial model. I like that one!

[Webleymkv]

Quote:
Not all that unusual compared to many that have been mentioned, but here's my Webley Mk. IV.

And that's a nice commercial model. I like that one!

Thank you It does have a good bit of holster wear that doesn't show up in the picture. About the time I bought it, another distributor had a lot which were advertised as coming from the Royal Hong Kong Police and had the same horrid cross-bolt safety installed (an abomination which I've removed and filled the hole). While I can't find any markings denoting the RHKP on mine and it wasn't advertised as such, I suspect that it may be from the same lot. When I bought mine, the distributor had both 4" and 5" barrels available and, as you can see, I opted for the shorter.

[Sevens]

Korth, Jans, Mateba, Rhino, etc

Poor mojo to slide a Rhino in at the end of that list of exquisite revolvers...

I picked up a brand new, box-fresh Rhino in the huge local gun store and asked the counter guy if I could dry fire it and he said "please do" and the revolver broke after a few of them, right there at the counter.

I have a very genuine wish that a quality American gunmaker will buy in to the patent and put this fine concept in to production one day. Chiappa is not what I'm looking for in a quality gunmaker.

[gyvel]

Thank you It does have a good bit of holster wear that doesn't show up in the picture. About the time I bought it, another distributor had a lot which were advertised as coming from the Royal Hong Kong Police and had the same horrid cross-bolt safety installed (an abomination which I've removed and filled the hole). While I can't find any markings denoting the RHKP on mine and it wasn't advertised as such, I suspect that it may be from the same lot.

The cross-bolt safety was a factory option from W&S. I think it is mainly of more interest to collectors, as the vast majority of W&S Mk IVs did not have it. Back in the 80s the first lot of "Singapore Police Forces" Webleys came in to the country and I bought one that did have the cross bolt. The Singapore guns are marked "SPF." I have seen pictures of some MK III .38s with that same safety as well.

What bothers me the most about recent Webley imports is the idiotic U.S. mandated hammer block safety modification that Century Arms did on all of them. You end up with an extra screw sticking out of the right side of the frame behind the recoil shield, and, even if you could find original, unmodified replacement parts, the screw hole will still be there.

Thanks, BATF.

[micromontenegro]

Speaking of the devil, I am trying to get hold of this .32 W&S (sorry about the lousy picture)

[Webleymkv]

Originally posted by gyvel
The cross-bolt safety was a factory option from W&S. I think it is mainly of more interest to collectors, as the vast majority of W&S Mk IVs did not have it. Back in the 80s the first lot of "Singapore Police Forces" Webleys came in to the country and I bought one that did have the cross bolt. The Singapore guns are marked "SPF." I have seen pictures of some MK III .38s with that same safety as well.

What bothers me the most about recent Webley imports is the idiotic U.S. mandated hammer block safety modification that Century Arms did on all of them. You end up with an extra screw sticking out of the right side of the frame behind the recoil shield, and, even if you could find original, unmodified replacement parts, the screw hole will still be there.

I've seen examples of the Singapore contract revolvers with the cross-bolt safety and that was most definitely not what my revolver had. What I had instead, was the Century abomination that you describe. I knew about this horrid idea when I bought the gun and at first planned to simply ignore it.

Unfortunately, the safety is very difficult and awkward to operate and must be placed in the "safe" position to break the gun open (thus eliminating the possibility of simply leaving it off and ignoring it). To make matters worse, even in the fire position it barely let the firing pin protrude beyond the face of the recoil shield and I doubt the gun would have been able to fire with this abomination in place.

Fortunately, the infernal thing was relatively easy to remove. By removing a small allen-head screw in the top of the frame (normally covered by the barrel latch), you can remove a small spring and plunger which retain the "safety". once those are out, the button simply slides out of the side of the frame. I used an epoxy to fill the hole and if you look closely at my picture, you can see a slightly discolored area in the frame just behind the screw in the barrel latch where the hole used to be.

[gyvel]

Speaking of the devil, I am trying to get hold of this .32 W&S (sorry about the lousy picture)

Wow! I like that one, too!. I had a similar gun years ago also a Mk III, but in .38 in nickel without the crossbolt safety. It was marked "ANCSL" which stood for "Army Navy Cooperative Store Ltd."

I did score a Mk IV .32 similar to webleymkv's .38 in the 80s in Miami from a guy from the Bahamas.

[Bill DeShivs]

These are a copy of the original S&W Ladysmith revolvers.
The Rossi is in .22 LR and it's a 7 shot. It's tiny! That's a model 60 S&W next to it.

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Poor mojo to slide a Rhino in at the end of that list of exquisite revolvers..

Yeah, true - that crossed my mind - but I added it since they're still not all THAT common yet. Good replies, though.

[Dain Bramage]

Seems as though the late Clinton Ezell, W.H.B. Smith, Geoffrey Boothroyd, Frank Barnes et. al, are all ignorant as well, since they seem to think that "8mm Lebel" is synonymous with that round.

Everyone who doesn't call it "8x27mmR" is stupid.

I call it "8mm Lebel".

If I'm feeling slightly less stupid, or buying ammo, I add "Revolver" at the end of it.

[gyvel]

Everyone who doesn't call it "8x27mmR" is stupid.

I call it "8mm Lebel".

If I'm feeling slightly less stupid, or buying ammo, I add "Revolver" at the end of it.

Careful! You might "grind Model12Win's gears."

[Dain Bramage]

I'd hate to be called ignorant, but I put some of this stuff in my 1892 revolver recently.



I was wary of entering the fray, since there seem to be some strong feelings about this. Everyone has a right to their own opinion.

My opinion is that there is some microcosm of humanity in calling both the French 8mm rounds the same thing. Basically, it's our ability to get things wrong, and still chug along and have everyone understand what we are saying.

Col. Lebel, who had some input on the 8mm rifle round, and was on the commission that approved the 1886 rifle, was against naming both after himself. He apparently had less to say about misappropriating his name to the revolver and revolver round, since he was dead.

[KyJim]

The closest think I have to an off-beat revolver is a Smith and Wesson Model 547. It's a 9mm that did not need moonclips due to a special extractor system. SW made some with four inch barrels and square butts and some with a three inch barrel and round butt. Total run was maybe 10,000 guns. It was originally designed for foreign markets (there's a couple of stories floating around about that) but did not catch on so they dumped them on the U.S. market.





It also had a small stud near the firing pin hole to prevent case setback.

[PzGren]

Korth revolvers are available with 9mm conversions, too. What else to say? Starting from the 24 series on the D/A is on a roller bearing that can be changed.





The two revolvers on the left are my favorites, a 24 series rimfire and a 27 series .357 Mag 5shot revolver.

The 23 series are not more spectacular than a K-22 or OMM but I prefer my K-22 among the three.

[Jeff #111]

Model12Win

AWESOME! I love Manuhrin revolvers. Aren't they still used in France and or Germany for police/swat work?

I don't know if they still are anymore. I know they were into the mid-90's by the French. I suspect that they've been replaced by autos. I know the French have gone over to GLOCK in a big way. It's a well made revolver.

[Ozzieman]

How about a single action Sig Sauer in 44 magnum?
Ok it’s a Sauer that later on turned into Sig Sauer. Great gun very well made and fit and finish is superb.

[4V50 Gary]

I'd like to get a Webley Fosbery semi-automatic revolver.

[gyvel]

I've seen examples of the Singapore contract revolvers with the cross-bolt safety and that was most definitely not what my revolver had. What I had instead, was the Century abomination that you describe. I knew about this horrid idea when I bought the gun and at first planned to simply ignore it.

Wow! That doesn't even come close to the CIA installed safety I was describing.

What Century did on some revolvers I have seen is install a passive hammer block safety into an inletted channel on the inside right portion of the frame. It is partially retained in orientation by an external screw visible on the right side of the frame behind the recoil shield, and held in the channel by the hammer. It functions much like the passive hammer block safety on a Smith & Wesson. The hammers are modified with clearance cuts to allow the safety to work.

And not only did they do it to the Mk IVs, but also to some Mk VIs as well.

Even if you replace the hammer with an unmodified one, you still have the hole in the right side of the frame.

[SIGSHR]

My nominees:
1. Mossberg/AIG Abilene in 44 Magnum. Only one I've ever seen.
2. Security Industries of America 38 snub-sort of a cheap copy of an S&W M-60.Was made here in NJ.
3. 1932 Enfield No. 2 Mk I in pre-war configuration.

[Andy Blozinski]

I own two Rhinos. Fantastic pistol. I've put hundreds of rounds through them with no reliability issues. Normally I pack the 4" model as my daily concealed carry, but I just replaced the rear sight and haven't had a chance to sight it in yet. They have no muzzle flip, even with .357 magnum. Trigger pull is a bit heavy. I'm probably going to get the Stage 2 trigger for my 4" model.
http://images5.alphacoders.com/292/292535.jpg

[TennJed]

great thread

[Webleymkv]

Originally posted by gyvel
Wow! That doesn't even come close to the CIA installed safety I was describing.

What Century did on some revolvers I have seen is install a passive hammer block safety into an inletted channel on the inside right portion of the frame. It is partially retained in orientation by an external screw visible on the right side of the frame behind the recoil shield, and held in the channel by the hammer. It functions much like the passive hammer block safety on a Smith & Wesson. The hammers are modified with clearance cuts to allow the safety to work.

And not only did they do it to the Mk IVs, but also to some Mk VIs as well.

Even if you replace the hammer with an unmodified one, you still have the hole in the right side of the frame.

Hmm, that does sound different and I've not seen one so configured. The revolver in this link has the same sort of safety installed as mine so you can see what it looked like before I removed it:

http://www.pagunblog.com/2010/01/12/...mark-iv-38-sw/

The problem with the way mine was done is that, unless you plug it like I did, removing the safety leaves a rather large hole through both sides of the frame.

By contrast, the gun in this link has what I understand to be the Singapore contract safety:

http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=2900

[PzGren]

I also have an off-beat Ruger GP100. It is a four inch fixed sighted gun that is chambered in .38 Special.

[gyvel]

Hmm, that does sound different and I've not seen one so configured. The revolver in this link has the same sort of safety installed as mine so you can see what it looked like before I removed it:

Good Lord! That IS an abomination. Thank you BATF for ruining some valuable collector's items.

And yes, your other photo is exactly what the Singapore contract looks like, but even with that cross bolt safety, CIA still had to install the type of safety I described.

[Pond, James Pond]

Skidder, that's great - but you gotta put that front brass bead back ON the gun - that's what really set that dude apart!

+1

I don't know what it is about Astra: it is one of my favourite gun marques.

If asked why, I couldn't even begin to work out a viable answer!