getting a new squirrel gun... - Page 3

Magnum Wheel Man · August 22, 2014, 10:24 AM

TJ's liners is where I got the .251" liner for the revolver... they sell by the inch, so I'll be contacting them, when time comes for a carbine barrel...

Loaded my 1st 25 ACP cartridges last night, just loaded a few for chambering & revolver check out...

I used the R-P cases I had... 1st thing I noticed, is they were plenty short... I loaded 2 that were .602" & 5 that were .606-.607" book says .615 is max...

so we'll likely chamber the head space on the case mouths at .610 - .612"

I loaded the 2 - 55 grain FP cast bullets my buddy cast for me ( the round nose seating stem will need replaced for this bullet if it works well in the future )... & 5 assorted 50 grain round nose bullets I pulled from old 25 ACP ammo, ranging from soft point, cupronickel, & FMJ...

the short cases got 1 FMJ, & one cast, & the longer got one cast & the balance of assortment...

I used 1.6 grains of Unique for these loads, chosen because it'll fill the case ( not compressed though ) & should offer more gas volume ( which my buddy was worried about having enough of ) 1.6 grains is the max for a 50 grain FMJ in the books...

I'm going to be looking for something ( outside the box ) with maybe a bit slower ball powder or something I could build an arbor for, for my Lil Dandy powder measure, that will meter well enough that I don't have to weigh charges, like I'm doing with the Unique right now...

my buddy found an article in a handloader magazine that used AA#2, & a big enough charge that I could likely use a powder measure... I'm looking at a few other powders as well, all of which I won't post, as I haven't tried them, & they are not published, but which will likely work better with the longer than 2" standard 25 Auto pistol length barrel... which ever I choose, this is going to be a very efficient cartridge to load, which with cast bullets, is likely going to make the primer the most expensive component

BTW... got the tracking number for the correct SAAMI 25 ACP reamer... should be here Monday or Tuesday next week...

Clark · August 22, 2014, 08:29 PM

Most of the published loads for 25acp seem to be Bullseye, but I have found with a 50 gr bullet, not enough Bullseye will fit. After trying many powders, Power Pistol is the best.

Magnum Wheel Man · August 25, 2014, 08:40 AM

I wish the pistol powders would get back in stock... the powder my buddy recommended I try is Accurate #5, of course I have a quite large powder library, but seem to be missing powders in that burn rate area... don't have any Power Pistol either...

BTW... UPS tracking # indicates Wednesday morning delivery of what I hope is the correct chamber reamer

Magnum Wheel Man · August 27, 2014, 12:20 PM

the new "correct" reamer came today, & is already over at his house, so I may have the gun to try by this weekend...

here is a pic ( crabby cell phone pic ) of it as it sat this morning...

also picked up between 50-60 bullets he cast for me, the custom 5 cavity bullet mold, a custom straight sizing die ( for tumble lubing ) & a custom lubrisizer die

Magnum Wheel Man · August 28, 2014, 06:51 AM

it was my builder buddies birthday yesterday... he spent his 74th birthday doing what he loves... working in his shop... he finished reaming the chambers, figured out the extractor issue, & called me at 7:30 pm to tell me the gun is done

I feel honored he wanted to spend his birthday, doing whatever he wanted, & he spent it finishing up my revolver...

I'll pick it up today, & hopefully over this long weekend, I'll get to put a couple 100 rounds through it...

will have to see how far off the sights are, & if they can be adjusted enough to shoot to point of impact with the 25...

BTW... I ordered a nickel Luepold scope base & set of rings... if it looks like it's going to shoot accurately enough to warrant, it'll get a scope

Magnum Wheel Man · September 2, 2014, 06:17 AM

well I had the gun out twice over the long weekend... I shot through an old part box of Winchester white box ( probably 80's vintage ) to 1st test the gun... made me a little nervous, as one was harder to extract, & I found a cracked case... next cylinder... same thing, one cracked... at this point I took a sharpie marker & marked the cylinder that the cracked case came out of... was worrying maybe one chamber was bad... however, I kept getting one cracked nearly every cylinder full, but they were in different chambers... got a couple cylinders that I didn't get one cracked... then I ran my 1st handloads through, with the cast bullets, these were R-P brass that were fired at least once... & had a maximum load of Unique... no cracked cases... then I proceeded to shoot up about 75 rounds of mixed 40's - 60's vintage rounds, just to get them shot up, no cracked cases... since I have close to 750 Winchester cases for reloading, I hope they all don't end up as brittle as the 1st factory rounds I tested...

several surprises... every bullet left the barrel, even some older ones that barely made a pop, the bullet hit my steel target ( on the old ammo I did have 3 failed primers... no fault to the gun, the black hawk puts a solid dent in them ) the bullet from this cartridge makes a resounding smack on my steel plates, in fact I only did 2 cylinders full at an actual target, to check for point of impact ( I shot in the evening after sweating off 2 shirts working around the farm, so I could barely see straight, lots of sweat in my eyes through out the day ) but I shot targets mounted to my standard steel 55 gallon drums I use for target backers... both the handloads, & factory loads shot to point of aim at 25 ft ( did not need to adjust the sights on the revolver ) & about 15 - 20% of them, went through both sides of the barrel ( more powerful than a standard 22 LR high velocity, as they rarely go through the back side of a steel drum ) also the gun was quieter than I expected... I expect the bullets are subsonic, as there is much less "crack" than with standard 22's...

I need to load up some more handloads this week, & get the chronograph out, & actually look to see what kind of velocities I'm seeing, & if I can tighten up the groups I can get out of the gun... both times I shot paper, gave me about a 4" - 8 shot group, but I'm blaming that on me, for shooting at the end of the day, after a lot of physical work... a lot of sweat in my eyes through out the day

since I'm hoping for something accurate enough to shoot squirrels out of trees, I picked up a Luepold mount & rings, that should be here this week, I have a couple silver scopes that are currently on little used Contender barrels... I'm thinking a parallax adjustable 2-7 Burris aught to do a nice job on this gun... I'll shoot the next groups at my standard 60 ft ( distance from my rifle bench, to my pistol backstop )... or it may be closer, if I do the chronograph & targets at the same time ( I have an adjustable chrony table that allows me to move it in place, & shoot targets & check velocities at the same time )

Magnum Wheel Man · September 2, 2014, 08:06 AM

BTW... was able to buy 350 cast round nose bullets to try...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=436432497

micromontenegro · September 2, 2014, 08:12 AM

Congratulations! I love your project.

DaleA · September 2, 2014, 01:39 PM

As the younger crowd says (or maybe USED to say) way cool!

Thanks for keeping us updated on the project thru the actual shooting. It's been very interesting especially your description of the accuracy of the gun and the power of the cartridges.

Tortuga12 · September 2, 2014, 03:33 PM

We're gonna need some pictures...for, uh...Quality Control. Yeah, that's it! Quality Control.

Magnum Wheel Man · September 2, 2014, 04:02 PM

planning on some better pictures tonight...

AKexpat · September 2, 2014, 04:42 PM

I was captivated by your project thread! I wish I had the capabilities, knowledge, and a gun-savvy machinist friend as you do.

I believe that I read (way back) in Cartridges Of The World that .25 cal cartridges were some of the most accurate (as stated earlier by another poster on this thread), such as the .25-21 Stevens, the .25-35 Winchester, the .257 Roberts, and the .25-06 Remington.

You need to get some good gun magazine to do a piece on this pistol.

Congrats!

Jim

Magnum Wheel Man · September 3, 2014, 05:59 AM

a couple fresh pictures as promised... ( should have finished cleaning, rather than take pictures while I cleaned )

Magnum Wheel Man · September 3, 2014, 06:06 AM

note the meaty forcing cone... left thick, coupled with the tight barrel /cylinder gap, to keep as much gas pushing the bullet down the barrel as possible...

tried a close up of the barrel / cylinder gap... everything trued, so .002" gap has no drag resistance anywhere in the rotation... may need to remove the carbon every once in a while, but with close to 150 rounds through it in 2 days, without cleaning, still had perfect function...

Magnum Wheel Man · September 4, 2014, 09:04 AM

my buddy had a pound of Accurate #5, that was extra, I could buy off him... so hope to try loading some of that, with both Remington FMJ ( I held off buying FMJ bullets, until I was sure they would function in the gun ), & both the round nose lead I bought, & some of the flat point cast bullets from my mold...

I mounted the Luepold base last night ( well at least as far as I could ) I didn't know I'd have to have the gun drilled & tapped, I assumed it would mount after I removed the rear sight, but there was only one ( of 3 needed ) screw holes... so I'll have to get the frame drilled & tapped, & pick up a couple cap screws, in case I decide I want to put the rear sight back on...

the scope I put on it right now, is a silver Pentax 1.5 - 4X I had laying around... it's nice & clear, & should work well for squirrels & rabbits...

Doyle · September 4, 2014, 09:35 AM

Great story on the progress.

Please educate this simpleton: How are you able to keep the rimless cartridges right at the edge of the cylinder without using moon clips?

Magnum Wheel Man · September 4, 2014, 09:44 AM

the 25 ACP is technically semi rimmed ( though tolerances are too loose to actually allow seating on the tiny rim, for all cartridge brands reliably )

... so we head spaced on the case mouth, just like a normal auto pistol... like a 9mm for example

the 30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk ( for example ) was a rimless case that has been commercially chambered in single action revolvers... to do a double action on a rimless ( or semi rimmed cartridge ) takes an improved design extractor star like the Charter Arms 9 & 40's... but a single action is easy, so long as it head spaces on the case mouth as it's extraction is no different than a rimmed cartridge...

hope that helps...

Doyle · September 4, 2014, 09:53 AM

That really helps to understand. That leads me to believe that when you reload you are probably having to pay more attention to both case length and OAL than you would if you were reloading for a rimmed case.

Magnum Wheel Man · September 4, 2014, 09:58 AM

case length is important, but we can / have massaged the throat to take a longer COL so we can have more case capacity for revolver only loads, if we needed to...

the revolver is more forgiving on slightly shorter cases, as it has a much heavier hammer hit, than the tiny strikers on my pocket autos...

we also chambered the cylinder a little on the short side, after measuring actual brass length on a lot of the newer production cases... so I could run into some factory ammo that is too long ( I figured I could just shoot any I find, in one of my autos if needed ) BTW... my decision on the shorter chamber... based on the fact that everything seems to be run by bean counters anymore... I figure I'm more likely to encounter cases on the shorter side of spec, than on the longer side ( from a materials cost point of view ) & I can always trim cases shorter, but don't have a case stretcher yet

also of note, my RCBS dies appeared to have a roll crimp... can't imagine that that would even be needed in a pocket gun, so I had a custom taper crimp die made, to keep my case mouths nice & straight...

Magnum Wheel Man · September 5, 2014, 08:31 AM

" I've got blisters on my fingers!!!"

I thought I'd start this post with a Beatles quote... I "processed" 100 cases last night... started by running a plastic box of sorted ( R-P ), decapped & wet tumbled 25 auto cases through my caliper, & sorted them into 3 groups... ( actually 4 ) < .601", .602" - .604", .605" - .607", .608" & longer... I'm not sure how I want to trim these little cases yet... so I'm just sorting them for now...

the less than .601" will get tossed in recycle ( 4 ) I uniformed the flash holes on the balance ( my Flash hole measuring tool tells me I have at least 3 different sized flash holes, & on such a small case, the burr in the inside can make up an actual percentage of case volume ) I set aside the .602" - .604" ( about 20 of those ) I also set aside for now, the .608" & longer cases... I primed the .605" - .607" cases... ( I'm still waiting on a 25 Auto specific shell holder for my Lee hand prime tool, so I've been using one for a 5.7 X 28, but it has too thick a rim groove, so they are slightly proud... I then use a primer pocket swage to gently seat them fully into the pockets )

I'll start sorting the next box of 100 tonight... after I get 100 cases of the mid length uniformed sized & primed, I'll start working on some accuracy loads...

I chose the R-P cases initially, even though they seemed to have the most variation, over the Winchester, because of the initial cracking of the factory ammo I shot 1st in the gun...

I do have a blister on my index finger... from holding those tiny cases & "drilling" out the flash holes, some of which were smaller than my decapping pin...

anyway... next week I think I'll be charging cases starting with the AA #5

lamarw · September 5, 2014, 08:52 AM

No disrespect intended rather just the opposite. There is a lot of humor to the fact you are shooting .25's out of a gun frame marked .357 Magnum.

Let us know when you take first red pine squirrel if not already.

Magnum Wheel Man · September 5, 2014, 09:35 AM

well at least I know the gun is heavy duty enough to handle the new cartridge

Magnum Wheel Man · September 10, 2014, 06:41 AM

CAUTION LOADS LISTED HERE ARE FOR THIS HEAVY DUTY REVOLVER, THEY ARE NOT PUBLISHED, & SHOULD NOT BE FIRED IN 25 ACP SEMI AUTO GUNS

loaded up a few test cartridges last night using the Accurate #5 I got from my buddy... looking at the actual case capacity... I think 3 grains would be a compressed load, & this is a very dense powder...

because of the strength of this gun, I started with 2.5 grains of #5 & loaded one cylinder full ( 8 rounds ) with some Hornady 50 grain FMJ bullets, & 8 rounds with some 50 grain lead round nose, commercial bullets I found on Gun Broker...if these look too hot for the tiny case, I may work myself back a little... as you can see, this is a very efficient cartridge... 2.5 grains of #5 is a very tiny amount of powder...

I've been getting crushed at work this week, so I haven't gotten the revolver over to get drilled & tapped for the scope mount yet, that & it's raining... so I'll have to wait to try these loads... I'll continue to separate the R-P cases by size, & uniforming the flash holes... I also got another 1000 once fired range cases this week that I've been processing ( which includes decapping, wet tumbling, & sorting by head stamp )

Magnum Wheel Man · September 16, 2014, 06:56 AM

A little update... I picked up the gun after getting it drilled & tapped for the scope mount... I have an older Pentax 1.5 - 4X silver scope mounted on it now... I'll likely use that for load development, & may pull it off, after I find a load I like, & get the accuracy I'm looking for, as I'm not a huge fan of scoped revolvers, as far as handling... also I have any number of good holsters this gun will fit into with the scope off, but with it mounted, it really only fits in a couple scoped Contender rigs I have...

my 25 Auto Lee shell holder for my hand prime tool came in stock at Midway, & I received it yesterday... I tested a few last night, seating the primers perfectly ( no more double seating using the primer pocket swage ) that'll save some time... I'm going to have some solid inserts made up for my lil dandy powder measure, & after I get the charge figured out, I can size one of the blanks, so that I can start using a powder measure, rather than weighing all the charges ( which I'm currently doing )... goal is to be able to crank these out pretty fast, since I'm wanting them to replace 22 LR at my place...

hoping to find some time either this week, or this weekend, to sight in the scope, & get a base line accuracy, with some Federal factory ammo I have... then once I get a group on paper, I'll start with the handloads listed above...

one thing I didn't mention above, is I may back down the charge, if I get supersonic, as I want this to be a quiet shooter, & with the AA #5 loads listed above, I may be faster than the speed of sound... I'm not as worried about chrongraphing right away, as I'll be able to tell if they are subsonic... once I get into dialing in a load, I'll pull the chrony out...

Magnum Wheel Man · September 17, 2014, 06:31 AM

seems like it's always good & bad... so far with this project... the bad... I sighted in the revolver with that Pentax scope, & some Federal factory ammo, & did not have enough scope windage adjustment... I was shooting the gun rested at 60ft, & the best I could do was about 6" right of point of aim...

will try another scope, if that doesn't work, I may need to add a windage adjustable base, which I don't think they make for handguns, so it would require more machining...

good news... the Federal Factory ammo at 60ft shot a 1.5" 8 shot group... I should be able to better that with my handloads...

August 22, 2014, 10:24 AM	#51
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	TJ's liners is where I got the .251" liner for the revolver... they sell by the inch, so I'll be contacting them, when time comes for a carbine barrel... Loaded my 1st 25 ACP cartridges last night, just loaded a few for chambering & revolver check out... I used the R-P cases I had... 1st thing I noticed, is they were plenty short... I loaded 2 that were .602" & 5 that were .606-.607" book says .615 is max... so we'll likely chamber the head space on the case mouths at .610 - .612" I loaded the 2 - 55 grain FP cast bullets my buddy cast for me ( the round nose seating stem will need replaced for this bullet if it works well in the future )... & 5 assorted 50 grain round nose bullets I pulled from old 25 ACP ammo, ranging from soft point, cupronickel, & FMJ... the short cases got 1 FMJ, & one cast, & the longer got one cast & the balance of assortment... I used 1.6 grains of Unique for these loads, chosen because it'll fill the case ( not compressed though ) & should offer more gas volume ( which my buddy was worried about having enough of ) 1.6 grains is the max for a 50 grain FMJ in the books... I'm going to be looking for something ( outside the box ) with maybe a bit slower ball powder or something I could build an arbor for, for my Lil Dandy powder measure, that will meter well enough that I don't have to weigh charges, like I'm doing with the Unique right now... my buddy found an article in a handloader magazine that used AA#2, & a big enough charge that I could likely use a powder measure... I'm looking at a few other powders as well, all of which I won't post, as I haven't tried them, & they are not published, but which will likely work better with the longer than 2" standard 25 Auto pistol length barrel... which ever I choose, this is going to be a very efficient cartridge to load, which with cast bullets, is likely going to make the primer the most expensive component BTW... got the tracking number for the correct SAAMI 25 ACP reamer... should be here Monday or Tuesday next week... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

August 22, 2014, 08:29 PM	#52
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	Most of the published loads for 25acp seem to be Bullseye, but I have found with a 50 gr bullet, not enough Bullseye will fit. After trying many powders, Power Pistol is the best. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

August 25, 2014, 08:40 AM	#53
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I wish the pistol powders would get back in stock... the powder my buddy recommended I try is Accurate #5, of course I have a quite large powder library, but seem to be missing powders in that burn rate area... don't have any Power Pistol either... BTW... UPS tracking # indicates Wednesday morning delivery of what I hope is the correct chamber reamer __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; August 25, 2014 at 10:40 AM.

August 28, 2014, 06:51 AM	#55
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	it was my builder buddies birthday yesterday... he spent his 74th birthday doing what he loves... working in his shop... he finished reaming the chambers, figured out the extractor issue, & called me at 7:30 pm to tell me the gun is done I feel honored he wanted to spend his birthday, doing whatever he wanted, & he spent it finishing up my revolver... I'll pick it up today, & hopefully over this long weekend, I'll get to put a couple 100 rounds through it... will have to see how far off the sights are, & if they can be adjusted enough to shoot to point of impact with the 25... BTW... I ordered a nickel Luepold scope base & set of rings... if it looks like it's going to shoot accurately enough to warrant, it'll get a scope __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

September 2, 2014, 06:17 AM	#56
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	well I had the gun out twice over the long weekend... I shot through an old part box of Winchester white box ( probably 80's vintage ) to 1st test the gun... made me a little nervous, as one was harder to extract, & I found a cracked case... next cylinder... same thing, one cracked... at this point I took a sharpie marker & marked the cylinder that the cracked case came out of... was worrying maybe one chamber was bad... however, I kept getting one cracked nearly every cylinder full, but they were in different chambers... got a couple cylinders that I didn't get one cracked... then I ran my 1st handloads through, with the cast bullets, these were R-P brass that were fired at least once... & had a maximum load of Unique... no cracked cases... then I proceeded to shoot up about 75 rounds of mixed 40's - 60's vintage rounds, just to get them shot up, no cracked cases... since I have close to 750 Winchester cases for reloading, I hope they all don't end up as brittle as the 1st factory rounds I tested... several surprises... every bullet left the barrel, even some older ones that barely made a pop, the bullet hit my steel target ( on the old ammo I did have 3 failed primers... no fault to the gun, the black hawk puts a solid dent in them ) the bullet from this cartridge makes a resounding smack on my steel plates, in fact I only did 2 cylinders full at an actual target, to check for point of impact ( I shot in the evening after sweating off 2 shirts working around the farm, so I could barely see straight, lots of sweat in my eyes through out the day ) but I shot targets mounted to my standard steel 55 gallon drums I use for target backers... both the handloads, & factory loads shot to point of aim at 25 ft ( did not need to adjust the sights on the revolver ) & about 15 - 20% of them, went through both sides of the barrel ( more powerful than a standard 22 LR high velocity, as they rarely go through the back side of a steel drum ) also the gun was quieter than I expected... I expect the bullets are subsonic, as there is much less "crack" than with standard 22's... I need to load up some more handloads this week, & get the chronograph out, & actually look to see what kind of velocities I'm seeing, & if I can tighten up the groups I can get out of the gun... both times I shot paper, gave me about a 4" - 8 shot group, but I'm blaming that on me, for shooting at the end of the day, after a lot of physical work... a lot of sweat in my eyes through out the day since I'm hoping for something accurate enough to shoot squirrels out of trees, I picked up a Luepold mount & rings, that should be here this week, I have a couple silver scopes that are currently on little used Contender barrels... I'm thinking a parallax adjustable 2-7 Burris aught to do a nice job on this gun... I'll shoot the next groups at my standard 60 ft ( distance from my rifle bench, to my pistol backstop )... or it may be closer, if I do the chronograph & targets at the same time ( I have an adjustable chrony table that allows me to move it in place, & shoot targets & check velocities at the same time ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; September 2, 2014 at 08:18 AM.

September 2, 2014, 08:06 AM	#57
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	BTW... was able to buy 350 cast round nose bullets to try... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=436432497 __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

September 2, 2014, 08:12 AM	#58
micromontenegro Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2010 Posts: 647	Congratulations! I love your project.

September 2, 2014, 01:39 PM	#59
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,313	As the younger crowd says (or maybe USED to say) way cool! Thanks for keeping us updated on the project thru the actual shooting. It's been very interesting especially your description of the accuracy of the gun and the power of the cartridges.

September 2, 2014, 03:33 PM	#60
Tortuga12 Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Posts: 211	We're gonna need some pictures...for, uh...Quality Control. Yeah, that's it! Quality Control.

September 2, 2014, 04:02 PM	#61
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	planning on some better pictures tonight... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

September 2, 2014, 04:42 PM	#62
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	I was captivated by your project thread! I wish I had the capabilities, knowledge, and a gun-savvy machinist friend as you do. I believe that I read (way back) in Cartridges Of The World that .25 cal cartridges were some of the most accurate (as stated earlier by another poster on this thread), such as the .25-21 Stevens, the .25-35 Winchester, the .257 Roberts, and the .25-06 Remington. You need to get some good gun magazine to do a piece on this pistol. Congrats! Jim

September 4, 2014, 09:04 AM	#65
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	my buddy had a pound of Accurate #5, that was extra, I could buy off him... so hope to try loading some of that, with both Remington FMJ ( I held off buying FMJ bullets, until I was sure they would function in the gun ), & both the round nose lead I bought, & some of the flat point cast bullets from my mold... I mounted the Luepold base last night ( well at least as far as I could ) I didn't know I'd have to have the gun drilled & tapped, I assumed it would mount after I removed the rear sight, but there was only one ( of 3 needed ) screw holes... so I'll have to get the frame drilled & tapped, & pick up a couple cap screws, in case I decide I want to put the rear sight back on... the scope I put on it right now, is a silver Pentax 1.5 - 4X I had laying around... it's nice & clear, & should work well for squirrels & rabbits... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

September 4, 2014, 09:35 AM	#66
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Great story on the progress. Please educate this simpleton: How are you able to keep the rimless cartridges right at the edge of the cylinder without using moon clips?

September 4, 2014, 09:44 AM	#67
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	the 25 ACP is technically semi rimmed ( though tolerances are too loose to actually allow seating on the tiny rim, for all cartridge brands reliably ) ... so we head spaced on the case mouth, just like a normal auto pistol... like a 9mm for example the 30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk ( for example ) was a rimless case that has been commercially chambered in single action revolvers... to do a double action on a rimless ( or semi rimmed cartridge ) takes an improved design extractor star like the Charter Arms 9 & 40's... but a single action is easy, so long as it head spaces on the case mouth as it's extraction is no different than a rimmed cartridge... hope that helps... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

September 4, 2014, 09:53 AM	#68
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	That really helps to understand. That leads me to believe that when you reload you are probably having to pay more attention to both case length and OAL than you would if you were reloading for a rimmed case.

September 4, 2014, 09:58 AM	#69
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	case length is important, but we can / have massaged the throat to take a longer COL so we can have more case capacity for revolver only loads, if we needed to... the revolver is more forgiving on slightly shorter cases, as it has a much heavier hammer hit, than the tiny strikers on my pocket autos... we also chambered the cylinder a little on the short side, after measuring actual brass length on a lot of the newer production cases... so I could run into some factory ammo that is too long ( I figured I could just shoot any I find, in one of my autos if needed ) BTW... my decision on the shorter chamber... based on the fact that everything seems to be run by bean counters anymore... I figure I'm more likely to encounter cases on the shorter side of spec, than on the longer side ( from a materials cost point of view ) & I can always trim cases shorter, but don't have a case stretcher yet also of note, my RCBS dies appeared to have a roll crimp... can't imagine that that would even be needed in a pocket gun, so I had a custom taper crimp die made, to keep my case mouths nice & straight... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; September 4, 2014 at 10:25 AM.

September 5, 2014, 08:31 AM	#70
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	" I've got blisters on my fingers!!!" I thought I'd start this post with a Beatles quote... I "processed" 100 cases last night... started by running a plastic box of sorted ( R-P ), decapped & wet tumbled 25 auto cases through my caliper, & sorted them into 3 groups... ( actually 4 ) < .601", .602" - .604", .605" - .607", .608" & longer... I'm not sure how I want to trim these little cases yet... so I'm just sorting them for now... the less than .601" will get tossed in recycle ( 4 ) I uniformed the flash holes on the balance ( my Flash hole measuring tool tells me I have at least 3 different sized flash holes, & on such a small case, the burr in the inside can make up an actual percentage of case volume ) I set aside the .602" - .604" ( about 20 of those ) I also set aside for now, the .608" & longer cases... I primed the .605" - .607" cases... ( I'm still waiting on a 25 Auto specific shell holder for my Lee hand prime tool, so I've been using one for a 5.7 X 28, but it has too thick a rim groove, so they are slightly proud... I then use a primer pocket swage to gently seat them fully into the pockets ) I'll start sorting the next box of 100 tonight... after I get 100 cases of the mid length uniformed sized & primed, I'll start working on some accuracy loads... I chose the R-P cases initially, even though they seemed to have the most variation, over the Winchester, because of the initial cracking of the factory ammo I shot 1st in the gun... I do have a blister on my index finger... from holding those tiny cases & "drilling" out the flash holes, some of which were smaller than my decapping pin... anyway... next week I think I'll be charging cases starting with the AA #5 __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; September 5, 2014 at 10:53 AM.

September 5, 2014, 08:52 AM	#71
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	No disrespect intended rather just the opposite. There is a lot of humor to the fact you are shooting .25's out of a gun frame marked .357 Magnum. Let us know when you take first red pine squirrel if not already.

September 5, 2014, 09:35 AM	#72
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	well at least I know the gun is heavy duty enough to handle the new cartridge __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

September 10, 2014, 06:41 AM	#73
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	CAUTION LOADS LISTED HERE ARE FOR THIS HEAVY DUTY REVOLVER, THEY ARE NOT PUBLISHED, & SHOULD NOT BE FIRED IN 25 ACP SEMI AUTO GUNS loaded up a few test cartridges last night using the Accurate #5 I got from my buddy... looking at the actual case capacity... I think 3 grains would be a compressed load, & this is a very dense powder... because of the strength of this gun, I started with 2.5 grains of #5 & loaded one cylinder full ( 8 rounds ) with some Hornady 50 grain FMJ bullets, & 8 rounds with some 50 grain lead round nose, commercial bullets I found on Gun Broker...if these look too hot for the tiny case, I may work myself back a little... as you can see, this is a very efficient cartridge... 2.5 grains of #5 is a very tiny amount of powder... I've been getting crushed at work this week, so I haven't gotten the revolver over to get drilled & tapped for the scope mount yet, that & it's raining... so I'll have to wait to try these loads... I'll continue to separate the R-P cases by size, & uniforming the flash holes... I also got another 1000 once fired range cases this week that I've been processing ( which includes decapping, wet tumbling, & sorting by head stamp ) __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; September 10, 2014 at 06:54 AM.

September 16, 2014, 06:56 AM	#74
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	A little update... I picked up the gun after getting it drilled & tapped for the scope mount... I have an older Pentax 1.5 - 4X silver scope mounted on it now... I'll likely use that for load development, & may pull it off, after I find a load I like, & get the accuracy I'm looking for, as I'm not a huge fan of scoped revolvers, as far as handling... also I have any number of good holsters this gun will fit into with the scope off, but with it mounted, it really only fits in a couple scoped Contender rigs I have... my 25 Auto Lee shell holder for my hand prime tool came in stock at Midway, & I received it yesterday... I tested a few last night, seating the primers perfectly ( no more double seating using the primer pocket swage ) that'll save some time... I'm going to have some solid inserts made up for my lil dandy powder measure, & after I get the charge figured out, I can size one of the blanks, so that I can start using a powder measure, rather than weighing all the charges ( which I'm currently doing )... goal is to be able to crank these out pretty fast, since I'm wanting them to replace 22 LR at my place... hoping to find some time either this week, or this weekend, to sight in the scope, & get a base line accuracy, with some Federal factory ammo I have... then once I get a group on paper, I'll start with the handloads listed above... one thing I didn't mention above, is I may back down the charge, if I get supersonic, as I want this to be a quiet shooter, & with the AA #5 loads listed above, I may be faster than the speed of sound... I'm not as worried about chrongraphing right away, as I'll be able to tell if they are subsonic... once I get into dialing in a load, I'll pull the chrony out... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust... Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; September 16, 2014 at 07:27 AM.

September 17, 2014, 06:31 AM	#75
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	seems like it's always good & bad... so far with this project... the bad... I sighted in the revolver with that Pentax scope, & some Federal factory ammo, & did not have enough scope windage adjustment... I was shooting the gun rested at 60ft, & the best I could do was about 6" right of point of aim... will try another scope, if that doesn't work, I may need to add a windage adjustable base, which I don't think they make for handguns, so it would require more machining... good news... the Federal Factory ammo at 60ft shot a 1.5" 8 shot group... I should be able to better that with my handloads... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...