PA state police keeping gun buyer records

ruger45 · August 2, 2000, 11:43 AM

http://members.aol.com/zman2no/breaking.html

PA State Police Maintaining Gun Sale Records…

In what could easily become a political nuclear explosion, the PA State Police have admitted they are retaining gun sale records for the past 75 years. In a letter dated June 14, 2000 written by Captain Jeffrey B. Miller of the PA State Police to PA State Representative Daryl Metcalfe, Captain Miller states, “…the dealer must complete and forward a copy of the Application/Record of Sale form to the (State Police) Department. The dealer must also retain a copy of this form. This obligation is separate from the PA Instant Check System (PICS) and generates a separate and distinct record which the (PA) State Police has been receiving and maintaining for a full 75 years before PICS existed.” Captain Jeffrey B. Miller continues, “The collection of the Record of Sale form is established in the Uniform Firearms Act (PA) and does not constitute a registry of firearms. It is merely a sales database consisting of records of handguns sold in PA.” Needless to say, I am in awe at the remarks and logic of our State Police.

State Representative Daryl Metcalfe is spearheading the effort to stop the PA State Police from compiling records. Nineteen other State Representatives have joined the effort by writing and signing multiple letters to our State Police. I suspect this is only the beginning of this political bombshell.

Who better to help us interpret the law than a man who helped write the law? Jon Mirowitz is a Philadelphia attorney in private practice specializing in gun law. In 1994 Jon served on the “State Select Committee” to investigate the use of firearms in PA. This 15-member panel consisted of a cross section of people spanning the gun rights and gun control issue drawn from the public and private sectors. They traveled to all corners of the state and held public hearings. They heard direct testimony from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Colonel Blackburn of the PA State Police. In the end it was concluded there was no justifiable purpose for gun registration or for the State Police to maintain the Application/Record of Sale. From the efforts of this panel came Act 17, the revamped Uniform Firearms Act. According to Attorney Mirowitz, “It was the specific intent of the Act to end this practice by our State Police of maintaining gun sales records.” The panel decided the act of keeping these records actually did constitute firearms registration.

If we take a look at the precise language of the law, Chapter 61, Title 18, Section 6111(B)(1.1)(v) reads as follows…”no information on the application/record of sale provided pursuant to this subsection shall be retained as precluded by section 6111.4 (relating to registration of firearms) by the PA State Police either through retention of the Application/Record of Sale or by entering the information onto a computer, and, further, an Application/Record of Sale received by the PA State Police pursuant to this subsection shall be destroyed within 72 hours of the completion of the criminal history, juvenile delinquency and mental health records background check." I think you will agree this legal verbiage is quite understandable.

Please allow me to put this in layman’s terms. No records shall be maintained by any means by any government agency with respect to the sale or transfer of any firearms, period. Seventy-two hours after the background check, any record of the process is to be destroyed. Seventy-two hours after the completed sale, the PA State Police must destroy the Record of Sale. The only location records are actually required to be maintained is at the dealer where the firearm was purchased. Dealers are required to keep the Record of Sale for 20 years after the transaction. The State Police may only keep records of a transaction if the purchase is denied.

Attorney Mirowitz played a key role in establishing the language of these statutes, which also carry a criminal offense and a fine for violation by any individual. Section 6119 of the Uniform Firearm Act states that violation of 6111.4 is a first-degree misdemeanor. Section 6111.I states all information provided by the purchaser must be kept confidential. Violation of 6111.I is also a first-degree misdemeanor and carries a $1000 fine per violation. Attorney Jon Mirowitz states, “The inherent problem is law enforcement likes to keep records.”

I spoke with the Press Secretary for the PA State Police, Mr. Jack Lewis and he stated, “It is the Department’s interpretation of the law that the Record of Sale should be maintained in a database. The outcome of this matter maybe decided by the courts.”

I related the State Police’s position to State Representative Daryl Metcalfe and he responded, “I believe that Pennsylvanians have the right to expect that the Executive Branch of government and its agencies such as the State Police will abide by the law that they are entrusted to enforce. By keeping a gun registry, they are violating the law.”

This scenario is an outrage and our State Police should be ashamed of themselves for defiantly violating this law. The decisions makers within the Agency should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, just as you or I would be prosecuted for violating any gun law. I completely concur with Representative Daryl Metcalfe. The PA State Police are entrusted to uphold the law, not violate, ignore, or rewrite it.
http://members.aol.com/zman2no/breaking.html

Big problem with that, they are the law and are above the law and have our tax dollars to use in their legal manipulation of the law and will cointinue to do so until our recsources are exhausted or people are tired of fighting it,
well I hope not but so far....
www.gunowners.org
NO compromising your rights www.jbs.org
leave the UN bring our trooops home

------------------
"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"

Edited to fix formatting and link problems - TBM

[This message has been edited by TheBluesMan (edited August 02, 2000).]

denfoote · August 2, 2000, 03:08 PM

Sounds like a reason for a massive class action law suit to me!!!!

------------------

Yeah, I got a permit to carry,it's called the friggin Constitution.---Ted Nugent

"Glock 26: 17 rounds of concealed carry DEATH comming your way from out of nowhere!!! THAT'S FIREPOWER, BABY!!!"

walangkatapat · August 2, 2000, 08:04 PM

Same for handguns in Orygun.

------------------
"Gun Control is Only to Protect Those in Power"

August 2, 2000, 11:43 AM	#1
ruger45 Junior member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Posts: 500	http://members.aol.com/zman2no/breaking.html PA State Police Maintaining Gun Sale Records… In what could easily become a political nuclear explosion, the PA State Police have admitted they are retaining gun sale records for the past 75 years. In a letter dated June 14, 2000 written by Captain Jeffrey B. Miller of the PA State Police to PA State Representative Daryl Metcalfe, Captain Miller states, “…the dealer must complete and forward a copy of the Application/Record of Sale form to the (State Police) Department. The dealer must also retain a copy of this form. This obligation is separate from the PA Instant Check System (PICS) and generates a separate and distinct record which the (PA) State Police has been receiving and maintaining for a full 75 years before PICS existed.” Captain Jeffrey B. Miller continues, “The collection of the Record of Sale form is established in the Uniform Firearms Act (PA) and does not constitute a registry of firearms. It is merely a sales database consisting of records of handguns sold in PA.” Needless to say, I am in awe at the remarks and logic of our State Police. State Representative Daryl Metcalfe is spearheading the effort to stop the PA State Police from compiling records. Nineteen other State Representatives have joined the effort by writing and signing multiple letters to our State Police. I suspect this is only the beginning of this political bombshell. Who better to help us interpret the law than a man who helped write the law? Jon Mirowitz is a Philadelphia attorney in private practice specializing in gun law. In 1994 Jon served on the “State Select Committee” to investigate the use of firearms in PA. This 15-member panel consisted of a cross section of people spanning the gun rights and gun control issue drawn from the public and private sectors. They traveled to all corners of the state and held public hearings. They heard direct testimony from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and Colonel Blackburn of the PA State Police. In the end it was concluded there was no justifiable purpose for gun registration or for the State Police to maintain the Application/Record of Sale. From the efforts of this panel came Act 17, the revamped Uniform Firearms Act. According to Attorney Mirowitz, “It was the specific intent of the Act to end this practice by our State Police of maintaining gun sales records.” The panel decided the act of keeping these records actually did constitute firearms registration. If we take a look at the precise language of the law, Chapter 61, Title 18, Section 6111(B)(1.1)(v) reads as follows…”no information on the application/record of sale provided pursuant to this subsection shall be retained as precluded by section 6111.4 (relating to registration of firearms) by the PA State Police either through retention of the Application/Record of Sale or by entering the information onto a computer, and, further, an Application/Record of Sale received by the PA State Police pursuant to this subsection shall be destroyed within 72 hours of the completion of the criminal history, juvenile delinquency and mental health records background check." I think you will agree this legal verbiage is quite understandable. Please allow me to put this in layman’s terms. No records shall be maintained by any means by any government agency with respect to the sale or transfer of any firearms, period. Seventy-two hours after the background check, any record of the process is to be destroyed. Seventy-two hours after the completed sale, the PA State Police must destroy the Record of Sale. The only location records are actually required to be maintained is at the dealer where the firearm was purchased. Dealers are required to keep the Record of Sale for 20 years after the transaction. The State Police may only keep records of a transaction if the purchase is denied. Attorney Mirowitz played a key role in establishing the language of these statutes, which also carry a criminal offense and a fine for violation by any individual. Section 6119 of the Uniform Firearm Act states that violation of 6111.4 is a first-degree misdemeanor. Section 6111.I states all information provided by the purchaser must be kept confidential. Violation of 6111.I is also a first-degree misdemeanor and carries a $1000 fine per violation. Attorney Jon Mirowitz states, “The inherent problem is law enforcement likes to keep records.” I spoke with the Press Secretary for the PA State Police, Mr. Jack Lewis and he stated, “It is the Department’s interpretation of the law that the Record of Sale should be maintained in a database. The outcome of this matter maybe decided by the courts.” I related the State Police’s position to State Representative Daryl Metcalfe and he responded, “I believe that Pennsylvanians have the right to expect that the Executive Branch of government and its agencies such as the State Police will abide by the law that they are entrusted to enforce. By keeping a gun registry, they are violating the law.” This scenario is an outrage and our State Police should be ashamed of themselves for defiantly violating this law. The decisions makers within the Agency should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, just as you or I would be prosecuted for violating any gun law. I completely concur with Representative Daryl Metcalfe. The PA State Police are entrusted to uphold the law, not violate, ignore, or rewrite it. http://members.aol.com/zman2no/breaking.html Big problem with that, they are the law and are above the law and have our tax dollars to use in their legal manipulation of the law and will cointinue to do so until our recsources are exhausted or people are tired of fighting it, well I hope not but so far.... www.gunowners.org NO compromising your rights www.jbs.org leave the UN bring our trooops home ------------------ "those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Edited to fix formatting and link problems - TBM [This message has been edited by TheBluesMan (edited August 02, 2000).]

August 2, 2000, 03:08 PM	#2
denfoote Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Location: Buckeye Arizona Posts: 5,526	Sounds like a reason for a massive class action law suit to me!!!! ------------------ Yeah, I got a permit to carry,it's called the friggin Constitution.---Ted Nugent "Glock 26: 17 rounds of concealed carry DEATH comming your way from out of nowhere!!! THAT'S FIREPOWER, BABY!!!"

August 2, 2000, 08:04 PM	#3
walangkatapat Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 1999 Posts: 300	Same for handguns in Orygun. ------------------ "Gun Control is Only to Protect Those in Power"