Trouble with lee factory crimp die

357shooter · April 3, 2006, 04:57 PM

I have been loading for my ruger sbh for some time now.I started out with a 240 gr.hard cast from brass plus,tons of leading with several different powder and velocities.These were size 429. rnfp. Went to meister bullets same size and same problem.From doing some research and advice on the forums I figured the thoat was oversized on my sbh, because this was where the most leading occured. I bought hard cast bullets from oregon trail,240 gr.lswc size 431.and bam problem solved.Acurate as can be and not a drop of leading under 9.0 gr.of universal,and even with a beefier load of h4227.Now I have created a different problem.The bullet seats just fine in winchester cases and remington cases and even magtech cases,but when I try to crimp them,I have a heck of a time getting the cartridge to go into the crimp die.It seems like the crimp die is too small for the size 431. bullets.It leaves two shiny spots on the brass with a space in the middle where the grease ring is.Is this normal?Will It increase the pressure too much?I would say it would probably wear out my cases quicker.Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

RERICK · April 3, 2006, 06:01 PM

Have you called Lee?They are usually pretty helpfull.

HSMITH · April 3, 2006, 07:02 PM

The Factory Crimp Die IS too small for a .431" bullet, plain and simple. Use another crimp die or seat and crimp in one step.

Skip the FCD altogether. If you want the best crimp die on the market take a look at the Redding Profile Crimp die, it is AWESOME with none of the problems in the FCD.

AlaskaMike · April 4, 2006, 11:49 AM

Well, as much as I love my Redding profile crimp dies for my roll-crimped calibers, I see the same behavior with it on .44 mag with the Lasercast .431 sized bullets.

357shooter, can you back off the FCD so it doesn't swage the case and bullet down? On the other hand, if accuracy is fine, and you're not seeing signs of excessive pressure, then is there really any problem?

Rerick's suggestion is also a very good one--always give the manufacturer the chance to help out when possible.

Mike

357shooter · April 4, 2006, 02:58 PM

I have tried backing off the crimp die but it doesn,t seem to be any difference other than there being no crimp at all.I haven't called lee but that does seem like the thing to do.I have not seen any signs of excess pressure,the cases do not seem to be sticking and have not noticed any excess recoil or flowing primers.I suppose I am swaging them down to 430.so I probably could go with a different brand,but I do like the lasercast the best.
I guess I'll see how long the cases last.I hate to go with something else right now because I finally found a combination that the gun seems to like.

TFB62 · April 4, 2006, 04:31 PM

Use a Redding profile crimp. It does not have the same .431 size issues. I use one with great results. LOOK into the Redding die, it may have some build up on the inside (lube mostly) preventing the proper function.

918v · April 5, 2006, 01:27 AM

And now you know why Lee FCD is a useless POS.

If you had a perfect gun with a .429" bore and a .429" throat, then the FCD would be useful. As it is, only Freedom Arms makes a gun that will work with your FCD. Every other gun has oversized throats.

Pressing a loaded round with .431" bullets through your FCD will reduce the diameter of your bullet to .429-430" depending on springback. This is counterproductive.

Get a crimp die that does not have sizing ring.

sindiesel666 · April 7, 2006, 11:56 AM

Try using lube on your cases, it'll help a lot. I'm thinking you don't use any when loading, so you're getting a lot of resistance on the FCD. I know, carbide dies don't need lube, but I always use it, it makes loading, especially on progressives, about 70% less effort needed.

Since I don't have Superman strength, and don't really want to jack up my press in any way, I've found that lubricating the cases is definitively the way to go. And you'll get a lot less shiny rings on your brass. Not that's a bad thing, I've reloaded some of my 45 ACP brass over 10-15 times with no appreciable wear, and that's with the FCD use. Good luck, let us know how it goes...

918v · April 7, 2006, 12:31 PM

The FCD will reduce the diameter of the bullet held inside the case. Reducing the bullet diameter is bad. Shooting undersized bullets is bad.

donkee · April 7, 2006, 12:57 PM

If RCBS had come out with the FCD, it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.........

sindiesel666 · April 7, 2006, 02:38 PM

Quote:

The FCD will reduce the diameter of the bullet held inside the case. Reducing the bullet diameter is bad. Shooting undersized bullets is bad.

I'm not sure that's the case. All FCD does is makes sure your completed cartridge will fit in the chamber properly, or be to the specs. I've had an issue with my 45 ACP loads in my Dan Wesson 1911. 1 out of maybe 7-8 rounds would fail to fully seat forward, causing the slide to hang back some and not go fully into battery.
That made me buy the FCD, and sincerely, it's the best thing since sliced bread...lol

Especially if you load cast bullets. I've never had any leading with it, nor any other issues. I get 2 inch groups at 25 yards with sandbagged rest.

357shooter · April 7, 2006, 03:40 PM

I have decided to try adjusting my seater die to crimp the case.I adjusted it last night and loaded a few rounds and they seemed to come out just fine.I did not put as much of a crimp on them as I have with the fcd.Just enough to keep the bullet from moving I hope, or that's the plan anyway.I have not tried them yet.Yes, I do have carbide dies and yes I do have some case lube so probably will try that too.I was truly amazed at the difference it made in accuracy and leading going to a bigger bullet.In my opinion it almost has to be squeezing down that bullet a little bit,because it is really tight going in the die.Well I'll find out if nice weather ever returns to N.Y.

918v · April 8, 2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

I'm not sure that's the case

Think about it.

You stick a bullet in a case and it creates a bulge. This bulge is ironed out as it goes through the FCD. What happens to the bullet inside the case as the bulge is compressed away?

The bullet is swaged down.

It is reduced in diameter.

donkee · April 9, 2006, 08:51 AM

Maybe it gets straightened out not swaged. I have some pulled 9mm Rems that I will compare to some right out of the box Rems when I place my next order. If there's such a problem with the FCD, why aren't all those comp shooters all dead from stuffing one of those b@#$&^d LEE dies in their Dillon presses. Somebody give me a first hand account of the damage caused by a FCD and I'll pitch mine into the sea so that it can't harm another person or firearm.......

918v · April 9, 2006, 04:02 PM

No, it gets swaged.

The bullet is softer than the brass case. If the brass case gets swaged, so does the bullet.

The FCD would be great if the carbide ring was a couple thousands looser, but no such luck.

April 3, 2006, 04:57 PM	#1
357shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2005 Location: upstate new york Posts: 111	Trouble with lee factory crimp die I have been loading for my ruger sbh for some time now.I started out with a 240 gr.hard cast from brass plus,tons of leading with several different powder and velocities.These were size 429. rnfp. Went to meister bullets same size and same problem.From doing some research and advice on the forums I figured the thoat was oversized on my sbh, because this was where the most leading occured. I bought hard cast bullets from oregon trail,240 gr.lswc size 431.and bam problem solved.Acurate as can be and not a drop of leading under 9.0 gr.of universal,and even with a beefier load of h4227.Now I have created a different problem.The bullet seats just fine in winchester cases and remington cases and even magtech cases,but when I try to crimp them,I have a heck of a time getting the cartridge to go into the crimp die.It seems like the crimp die is too small for the size 431. bullets.It leaves two shiny spots on the brass with a space in the middle where the grease ring is.Is this normal?Will It increase the pressure too much?I would say it would probably wear out my cases quicker.Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. __________________ shooter....

April 4, 2006, 02:58 PM	#5
357shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2005 Location: upstate new york Posts: 111	I have tried backing off the crimp die but it doesn,t seem to be any difference other than there being no crimp at all.I haven't called lee but that does seem like the thing to do.I have not seen any signs of excess pressure,the cases do not seem to be sticking and have not noticed any excess recoil or flowing primers.I suppose I am swaging them down to 430.so I probably could go with a different brand,but I do like the lasercast the best. I guess I'll see how long the cases last.I hate to go with something else right now because I finally found a combination that the gun seems to like. __________________ shooter....

April 7, 2006, 03:40 PM	#12
357shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2005 Location: upstate new york Posts: 111	I have decided to try adjusting my seater die to crimp the case.I adjusted it last night and loaded a few rounds and they seemed to come out just fine.I did not put as much of a crimp on them as I have with the fcd.Just enough to keep the bullet from moving I hope, or that's the plan anyway.I have not tried them yet.Yes, I do have carbide dies and yes I do have some case lube so probably will try that too.I was truly amazed at the difference it made in accuracy and leading going to a bigger bullet.In my opinion it almost has to be squeezing down that bullet a little bit,because it is really tight going in the die.Well I'll find out if nice weather ever returns to N.Y. __________________ shooter....

April 3, 2006, 06:01 PM	#2
RERICK Junior member Join Date: July 9, 2005 Posts: 369	Have you called Lee?They are usually pretty helpfull.

April 3, 2006, 07:02 PM	#3
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	The Factory Crimp Die IS too small for a .431" bullet, plain and simple. Use another crimp die or seat and crimp in one step. Skip the FCD altogether. If you want the best crimp die on the market take a look at the Redding Profile Crimp die, it is AWESOME with none of the problems in the FCD.

April 4, 2006, 11:49 AM	#4
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Well, as much as I love my Redding profile crimp dies for my roll-crimped calibers, I see the same behavior with it on .44 mag with the Lasercast .431 sized bullets. 357shooter, can you back off the FCD so it doesn't swage the case and bullet down? On the other hand, if accuracy is fine, and you're not seeing signs of excessive pressure, then is there really any problem? Rerick's suggestion is also a very good one--always give the manufacturer the chance to help out when possible. Mike

April 4, 2006, 04:31 PM	#6
TFB62 Junior Member Join Date: April 4, 2006 Location: USA Posts: 4	Use a Redding profile crimp. It does not have the same .431 size issues. I use one with great results. LOOK into the Redding die, it may have some build up on the inside (lube mostly) preventing the proper function.

April 5, 2006, 01:27 AM	#7
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	And now you know why Lee FCD is a useless POS. If you had a perfect gun with a .429" bore and a .429" throat, then the FCD would be useful. As it is, only Freedom Arms makes a gun that will work with your FCD. Every other gun has oversized throats. Pressing a loaded round with .431" bullets through your FCD will reduce the diameter of your bullet to .429-430" depending on springback. This is counterproductive. Get a crimp die that does not have sizing ring.

April 7, 2006, 11:56 AM	#8
sindiesel666 Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: San Antonio Posts: 270	Try using lube on your cases, it'll help a lot. I'm thinking you don't use any when loading, so you're getting a lot of resistance on the FCD. I know, carbide dies don't need lube, but I always use it, it makes loading, especially on progressives, about 70% less effort needed. Since I don't have Superman strength, and don't really want to jack up my press in any way, I've found that lubricating the cases is definitively the way to go. And you'll get a lot less shiny rings on your brass. Not that's a bad thing, I've reloaded some of my 45 ACP brass over 10-15 times with no appreciable wear, and that's with the FCD use. Good luck, let us know how it goes...

April 7, 2006, 12:31 PM	#9
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	The FCD will reduce the diameter of the bullet held inside the case. Reducing the bullet diameter is bad. Shooting undersized bullets is bad.

April 7, 2006, 12:57 PM	#10
donkee Junior member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Mid-Michigan Posts: 449	If RCBS had come out with the FCD, it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread.........

April 9, 2006, 08:51 AM	#14
donkee Junior member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Mid-Michigan Posts: 449	Maybe it gets straightened out not swaged. I have some pulled 9mm Rems that I will compare to some right out of the box Rems when I place my next order. If there's such a problem with the FCD, why aren't all those comp shooters all dead from stuffing one of those b@#$&^d LEE dies in their Dillon presses. Somebody give me a first hand account of the damage caused by a FCD and I'll pitch mine into the sea so that it can't harm another person or firearm.......

April 9, 2006, 04:02 PM	#15
918v Junior member Join Date: September 25, 2005 Posts: 1,372	No, it gets swaged. The bullet is softer than the brass case. If the brass case gets swaged, so does the bullet. The FCD would be great if the carbide ring was a couple thousands looser, but no such luck.