Trouble Chambering .30-06

[Shooter2675]

I went to the range yesterday with my brother to shoot some of my new handloads for his Remington 700 .30-06. When we tried to chamber the round, the bolt was a little hard to close. Once closed, the rounds fired fine, and there was no trouble extracting, no wear marks on the case, nothing. All the cases were measured below 2.494 inches prior to reloading them, and I was using Hornady .308 cal 150 Grain Interlok Round Nose bullets. Per the Hornady manual, I seated them to 3.000 inches. Not sure if this matters, but the powder I used was IMR 4064. It was a lighter load, on the lower end of what was listed in the Hornady 9th edition manual. What could be causing the tough chamberings? My first guess was that the chamber is not cut for Round Nose bullets, but I am not sure.

Thank you,

John

[aherrera773]

The shoulder needs to be bumped back a little further upon sizing. I personally don't have a case guage for that caliber when I reload it. So when I set up my dies I size one case and I take it to the rifle no powder primer or bullet should be used as your just checking to see how the bolt closes if it feels stiffs. Turn your sizing die a 1/4 turn tighter than take another case and repeat above test. It always works for me

[MightyMO1911]

I suspect aherrera773 is right. I had the same issue with my 22-250 and his solution fixed it.

[Shooter2675]

I went to my reloading bench, adjusted the sizing die to knock the shoulder back further, sized two .30-06 cases, and when I put them in my brother's rifle, they champered fine. Just to be sure, I tried a case that had not been sized properly, and like you said, it was tough to get in.

Thank you for all your help,

John

[oldmanFCSA]

Good catch, but I highly recommend a case gage for all the common cartridges you may load. Checking at the bench is better than finding a problem at the range or on a hunt.

Was very interesting reading your initial posting as a friend was here loading the exact same case, powder, projectile. Deja Vu.

I even make case gages for my 50BMG using a section of rifled barrel and cutting the chamber with the same reamer used on my target rifles. This way I can verify exact fit without running all loaded rounds thru my rifle after dis-assembling the bolt to prevent a misfire.

[Shooter2675]

Would the cases that chamber a little tight be safe to shoot?

Thank you,

John

[TimSr]

All the cases were measured below 2.494 inches prior to reloading them..

Was that prior to resizing them?

[F. Guffey]

I went to the range yesterday with my brother to shoot some of my new handloads for his Remington 700 .30-06. When we tried to chamber the round, the bolt was a little hard to close.

Instead of sizing the cases before you went to the range you sized them when you closed the bolt. My opinion? A bad habit.

You could have upset the shoulder/case body juncture when you seated the bullet. You could have sized the case without checking if the case was sized before you lowered the ram. I do not fire cases that chamber with difficult bolt closing. It is like a pass, there are three things that can happen, two are bad.

F. Guffey

Without access to his rifle you had no choice but to return the cases to minimum length/full length sized. You measured the length of the case from the mouth of the case to the head of the case and the COL, the important measurement is the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case. Most call that case head space. My cases do not have head space.

[T. O'Heir]

You use an FL sizer die? If the case was fired out of another rifle, you must FL resize.
The shell holder should just kiss the bottom of the die with the ram all the way up.
Chambers don't get cut for any kind of bullet.

[F. Guffey]

You use an FL sizer die?

Yes I do, if I have access to the chamber/rifle I use all the options the full length sizing die offers. I have sized 30/06 cases that would chamber in a short chamber, I have sized/formed cases that fit a chamber that is .002" longer than a field reject length chamber, all of that with one die.

Advantage, I knew the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face before I started.

F. Guffey

[Unclenick]

Shooter2675,

Below is a drawing of what happens when you size a case. Note that as the FL die narrows the case the shoulder moves forward. So when the die contacts the shoulder it has to push at least that extra length back to get the round to chamber smoothly.



A common error when setting up an FL die to FL resize, is to forget to make the crack of light check. When the case is being resized, the effort stretches the press slightly, so even if your FL die was making good contact with the shell holder when you set it up, it may no longer be doing so with the press stretched. The cure is to look sideways for a crack of light to appear between the end of the die and the shell holder when actual resizing of a case is being done. You then turn the die in further until the crack of light is tightened to zero.

If you are trying to minimize shoulder setback, the cases generally need to be from the same manufacturing lot and to have been fired in the same gun you are resizing them for. If you set the die up to push those cases back the right amount, then put in a case from another gun with a longer chamber, or one made of heavier brass or with a harder alloy, the press stretches more and often doesn't push their shoulders back as far. The added stress can also make the brass spring back a little more. I've resized military .30-06 brass of the same lot but fired in different guns and had them vary by over 0.003" in the final length that came out of the gun.

[hooligan1]

F.Guffey, why would you post any reply telling us you know exactly what the heck we want to know then expounding how you know any measurement, IF YOU AREN'T GONNA TEACH US REFRAIN FROM BRAGGING WHAT YOU KNOW, cause frankly your post and and a handfull of nightcrawlers is all thats needed to catch catfish.


We already know your a well worn shoe with handloading but we cant dig it, if you dont teach it....

[F. Guffey]

F.Guffey, why would you post any reply telling us you know exactly what the heck we want to know then expounding how you know any measurement, IF YOU AREN'T GONNA TEACH US REFRAIN FROM BRAGGING WHAT YOU KNOW, cause frankly your post and and a handfull of nightcrawlers is all thats needed to catch catfish.


We already know your a well worn shoe with handloading but we cant dig it, if you dont teach it

Hooligan1, a shooter, reloader, collector ask a question on another forum, he was treated in a manner rather rude. He wanted to know about casting a chamber. I started to help him but it is not easy to help and defend your self so I had him contact me off the Internet and by phone.

He wanted to cast a chamber that would include head space/the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face. He is now measuring chamber complete, he has run out of anything to check. In the time I spent with him on the phone I know he is a very disciplined reloader that had a little trouble wrapping his mind around a problem.

I do read through a lot of responses and have the ability to go through old archives.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

You could have sized the case without checking if the case was sized before you lowered the ram.

Some choose to ignore information, not my problem, A reloader that desires to be disciplined should learn the discipline. I have suggested a reloader could remove the shell holder before lowering the ram, after removing the shell holder they could remove the die with the case and measure case head protrusion. A disciplined reloader know the deck height of the shell holder is .125". When measuring the case head protrusion from the die the case head protrusion should be .125", anything beyond .125" did not get stuffed into the die. To verify a disciplined reloader could pull the case from the die and measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head.

F. Guffey

[hartcreek]

The guys have covered it. When you reload you need to consider who will be shootind your reloads. Not every rifle is the same. I reload for several guys in 30-06 but I size all ov trhem for my rifle as its chamber is so tight that I have to have my die all thge way down to the shell holder and a bit extra fro takeup of my press to be able to chamber finished rounds. So out of habit I do all my rifle rounds that way.

I just resizes 30-06 and a few .270 cases for 8mm Mauser and if I had not set up for maximum sizing once I had my cases cut to the proper length I would have had problems with his Mauser too as it was vert tight.

Full sizeing all the way doe reduce caselife but it sure eliminates hassles.

[hooligan1]

Thanks for the reply Guffey, you dont have the need to "defend yourself" from me or most that post here, and we know your a tad eccentric, but stating you know something and then not sharing how you come by your hypothesis has no interest value. Im disciplined in safe and accurate handloading, but a lot that post here can't glean anything from your rhetoric.
It may be you cant communicate with anyone a little less intelligent then you believe yourself to be, but I think your just a tad arrogant, and not to mention "full of yourself", you may be super at your trade, but your not helpfull to anyone.

And with that I still say thanks to you for any positive input on all threads you post because you do know things us handloaders gotta know but cant get things figured out...
Thanks anyway bro.

[F. Guffey]

and we know your a tad eccentric, but stating you know something and then not sharing how you come by your hypothesis has no interest value.

Hooligan1, thank you for the kind words. The Jersey shore reloader got the hang of casting chambers in a very short time. He called me and said "You are a genius". Then he had a few more questions. I was not sweating because I find the best answer "I do not know" is an option.

F. Guffey

then there is that part about lowering the ram before the case is sized. From the beginning the feeler gage has always been an option to determine the gap between the shell holder and bottom of the die.

[Bucksnort1]

Sheeeesh, and to think reloading manuals make reloading look simple with ten or twelve steps. I kinda like the Army way - K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid.

[Shooter2675]

I did full length resize them, and I measured them AFTER sizing them. If I chamber the empty cases AFTER sizing they do fit in the chamber, but only after I adjusted my die. What should I do with the ammo that isn't sized right? It is very slight, and the bolt only takes a small little effort to close it, but definetly a little more than factory ammo.

Thank you,

John

[mehavey]

What should I do with the ammo that isn't sized right? ... bolt only takes a
small little effort to close it, but definetly a little more than factory ammo.

Some "feel" as the bolt closes is OK.
As long as the bolt completely closes
w/o having to be forced, ...shoot it.




postscript: The only chamber guage that really matters is the rifle's chamber itself.
Short of having to try every sized case in the rifle each time you reload, I recommend
you get a Hornady Case Headspace Comparator set, determine what reading fits
that rifle, and use it to initially adjust the sizing die for each session.
[NOTE also that brass develops "spring-back" as it is work-hardened. Knowing
the headspace reading req'd allows you to adjust/check that die no matter what.]

[Bart B.]

I agree with mehavey, if the round chambers with a little bit of force, shoot the darned thing.

I do think it's best if the case is full length sized just enough to let the bolt close without any binding whatsoever. And there's only a few thousandths slop it its fit to the chamber; case headspace is about .002" to .003" less than chamber headspace. That can be done by measuring a fired case, then again after full length sizing it; the dimension after sizing should be about .002" less than when fired. This is what that Hornady LNL gauge, or the RCBS Precision Mic will show. Neither have an exact reading of the case headspace, both are just compariters. The RCBS Mic is zeroed on a reference gauge made to chamber headspace shoulder references; even those for belted cases are in spite of their official headspace is referenced on the shoulder at .220".

Often, I think such tools should be called "differentiaters" as they only show the difference between the case headspace dimension after firing and after resizing.

One can get a fairly accuracy chamber headspace measurement by measuring a fired case (normal, max load) headspace with a calibrated gauge, then adding .001 inch to that amount. Virtually all fired case's headspace at their shoulder is about that much less than that of the chamber it was fired in.

[F. Guffey]

and the bolt only takes a small little effort to close it,

Sizing the case with the bolt when chambering a round is a bad habit. I know, most members sound like Wallace Berry "It's OK there little buddy, you just go on and continue chambering those bullets and sizing those cases with the bolt" If you do not know or understand what is happening find out, do the research. If you believe the cases require sizing to reduce the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head, reduce the length of the case.

If you do not know when a case is sized to minimum length purchase a feeler gage, you could use light, warning I have a book that includes measuring with light. Before I do that I will put my Pratt and Whitney gage back together. I could dig out my air gages and or electronic micrometers, again, I am not in mortal combat with reloading.

I use the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage. I could use a tool with more prestige like the height gage or the depth gage or the dial caliper. I am the fan of the transfer, the standard and the verifying tool, the feeler gage.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

As long as the bolt completely closes

Chamber an 8mm57 round in a 30/06 chamber. Then apply "As long as the bolt completely closes" logic.

F. Guffey

[mehavey]

Chamber an 8mm57 round in a 30/06 chamber. Then
apply "As long as the bolt completely closes" logic.

TG -- sooner or later one has to stipulate enough sense on the part of the shooter to survive getting out of bed.

A 30-06 bolt would also close on a 338 Federal -- but I give [ "most" ] shooters credit for knowing the difference.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

adjusted the sizing die to knock the shoulder back further, sized two .30-06 cases, and when I put them in my brother's rifle, they champered fine. Just to be sure, I tried a case that had not been sized properly, and like you said, it was tough to get in.

John mentioned new handloads. But I suspect it was someone else's fire formed brass prior to his use.

What should I do with the ammo that isn't sized right?

Buy a Kinetic Bullet Puller. Knock them apart.
Save the powder and bullet.
Resize that brass again with your Resizer Die having its (decaping pin) intentionally removed.
(Just) the pin itself. (Not) the whole decapping stem assembly.)
Its Decaping Stem Assembly other than its (pin) must be left mounted in its die.

Reload them up again for there second time and go do some shooting.

There is little mention of a Comparator Tool being used to set up John's seater die in this thread. Comparator use is perhaps a topic that needs a light touch of information being passed on as to its purpose. Although I see little need to go into a detailed explanation of its use. (kiss) applied.