Saiga is on a roll....

Te Anau · February 7, 2012, 09:37 AM

Apparently Saiga created quite a splash at the Shot Show.I never could get into their shotguns,but we all know the superiority of the AK design.

http://www.guns.com/izhmash-saiga-12...an-market.html

chris in va · February 7, 2012, 10:45 PM

It was my understanding the Izhmash factory went bankrupt...did this change?

oneounceload · February 8, 2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

I never could get into their shotguns,but we all know the superiority of the AK design.

Compared to what and for what purpose? I know of other designs better suited for their purposes than an AK design.

GroovyMike · February 8, 2012, 01:12 PM

AK superiority is based on just one thing. They go BANG every time you pull the trigger. And really what else matters if your gun goes "click" instead?

jaguarxk120 · February 8, 2012, 01:44 PM

If you miss the target with the first ounce of shot sending nine more after it makes it better?

oneounceload · February 8, 2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

AK superiority is based on just one thing. They go BANG every time you pull the trigger. And really what else matters if your gun goes "click" instead?

So do my Brownings, SKBs, Berettas, S&W, and all my other shotguns - and they look a LOT better than that gun

Technosavant · February 8, 2012, 09:01 PM

Looks don't even have to enter into it. I have a Remington (two of them, actually), a Browning, a Franchi, and an Ithaca under my roof along with the Saiga, and any one of the previous four is a better gun for just about any shotgunning purpose.

The Saiga is fun, but I'm still mystified at why people continue to insist they're the most awesome shotgun in the history of ever. Quality control makes the 870 Express look like a Krieghoff, mag changes take an hour, and they're pretty finicky with ammo (unlike other semiauto designs, the Saiga really doesn't shoot lighter loads well). Fun? Sure. Cool looking? Depends on if you like that kind of thing. Reliable? I'd take most any Beretta, Browning, or Remington semiauto first.

TheKlawMan · February 8, 2012, 11:30 PM

Saiga

Quote:

Quality control makes the 870 Express look like a Krieghoff,

Ouch!

Nitesites · February 8, 2012, 11:47 PM

You know what? Mossberg should produce a Saiga fighter instead of those off the wall.........things........they're putting out. I don't even have the words. Well except for that super-duper awesome Lever-Action TAC 30.30!!!

chewie146 · February 9, 2012, 10:24 AM

Off-topic, that Tac .30-30 looks like something from a 50's sci-fi B movie. On-topic, that AK shotgun can require some tuning. I don't believe it's superior to any pump shotgun I've shot. I know a guy who has 5 or 6 of them, mainly because he's afraid they'll be banned, and they've all needed tweaking. Tweaking is fine for a toy, but not so good for a defense gun.

Technosavant · February 9, 2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Tweaking is fine for a toy, but not so good for a defense gun.

My point exactly. There's no shortage of more traditional designs that don't seem to have the quality control and function issues you get from the Saiga. For every person with a great one, there's another that was a vodka special with no gas ports or one that just doesn't feed right. For the price of the S12 and the parts to convert it, there's better choices for defensive guns.

Still, they ARE fun. Oh, the looks I get when I use it for skeet.

Dave McC · February 9, 2012, 04:13 PM

I was lent one for an extended T&E for over a year. The Geezer Squad and I had fun with it, though we agreed trap and wobble weren't its strong points.

For reducing threat levels in the immediate vicinity immediately, a good choice, though not the only one.

This one was box stock, no tweaks. A fun toy for bouncing a coffee can around at 40 yards with slugs.

Downsides, the lack of a bolt hold open device and the nasty trigger pull.

AIA, though, I liked it.....

Technosavant · February 9, 2012, 10:16 PM

Quote:

the nasty trigger pull.

IMO, if one buys a Saiga shotgun, they're honor-bound to convert them to regular AK configuration, and that will fix the trigger pull. Polish up the hammer/trigger mating surface on a regular AK trigger group and you can actually end up with quite good results.

I had an issue with the disconnector not releasing the hammer, and while I sanded down the rough spots holding it back, I figured I'd do a little polishing. The trigger now is quite good.

Dave McC · February 10, 2012, 02:47 PM

Thanks, when I shipped it back to the owner he told me it was going to be converted mach schnell.

I can do little with a Saiga that I cannot do with my "Serious" 870s. Others may find the Saigas better choices.

jaguarxk120 · February 10, 2012, 07:32 PM

Lets see you grind here, file there, change out the springs, polish the sear and disconnector, and you still have a gun thats a PIA to change magazines.

Or send $1600 to Red Jacket for their converted Sagia, and you still have a bunch of sheetmetal stampings spotwelded together.

For much less money one could buy a Beretta autoloader and have a real nice shotgun.

February 7, 2012, 09:37 AM	#1
Te Anau Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2004 Location: Somewhere south of the No Posts: 3,824	Saiga is on a roll.... Apparently Saiga created quite a splash at the Shot Show.I never could get into their shotguns,but we all know the superiority of the AK design. http://www.guns.com/izhmash-saiga-12...an-market.html __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." --American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)

February 8, 2012, 11:47 PM	#9
Nitesites Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 600	You know what? Mossberg should produce a Saiga fighter instead of those off the wall.........things........they're putting out. I don't even have the words. Well except for that super-duper awesome Lever-Action TAC 30.30!!! __________________ On Yellow

February 7, 2012, 10:45 PM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	It was my understanding the Izhmash factory went bankrupt...did this change?

February 8, 2012, 01:12 PM	#4
GroovyMike Member Join Date: January 20, 2006 Posts: 55	AK superiority is based on just one thing. They go BANG every time you pull the trigger. And really what else matters if your gun goes "click" instead?

February 8, 2012, 01:44 PM	#5
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	If you miss the target with the first ounce of shot sending nine more after it makes it better?

February 8, 2012, 09:01 PM	#7
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	Looks don't even have to enter into it. I have a Remington (two of them, actually), a Browning, a Franchi, and an Ithaca under my roof along with the Saiga, and any one of the previous four is a better gun for just about any shotgunning purpose. The Saiga is fun, but I'm still mystified at why people continue to insist they're the most awesome shotgun in the history of ever. Quality control makes the 870 Express look like a Krieghoff, mag changes take an hour, and they're pretty finicky with ammo (unlike other semiauto designs, the Saiga really doesn't shoot lighter loads well). Fun? Sure. Cool looking? Depends on if you like that kind of thing. Reliable? I'd take most any Beretta, Browning, or Remington semiauto first.

February 9, 2012, 10:24 AM	#10
chewie146 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 853	Off-topic, that Tac .30-30 looks like something from a 50's sci-fi B movie. On-topic, that AK shotgun can require some tuning. I don't believe it's superior to any pump shotgun I've shot. I know a guy who has 5 or 6 of them, mainly because he's afraid they'll be banned, and they've all needed tweaking. Tweaking is fine for a toy, but not so good for a defense gun.

February 9, 2012, 04:13 PM	#12
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I was lent one for an extended T&E for over a year. The Geezer Squad and I had fun with it, though we agreed trap and wobble weren't its strong points. For reducing threat levels in the immediate vicinity immediately, a good choice, though not the only one. This one was box stock, no tweaks. A fun toy for bouncing a coffee can around at 40 yards with slugs. Downsides, the lack of a bolt hold open device and the nasty trigger pull. AIA, though, I liked it.....

February 10, 2012, 02:47 PM	#14
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Thanks, when I shipped it back to the owner he told me it was going to be converted mach schnell. I can do little with a Saiga that I cannot do with my "Serious" 870s. Others may find the Saigas better choices.

February 10, 2012, 07:32 PM	#15
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	Lets see you grind here, file there, change out the springs, polish the sear and disconnector, and you still have a gun thats a PIA to change magazines. Or send $1600 to Red Jacket for their converted Sagia, and you still have a bunch of sheetmetal stampings spotwelded together. For much less money one could buy a Beretta autoloader and have a real nice shotgun.