Outrageous snake prices

[T. O'Heir]

Blue book values mostly mean squat. They're averages of prices from all over the U.S. with zero regard for local supply and demand. Plus any book will be at least two years out of date due to the time it takes to compile and publish a book.
"...a trigger on a S&W..." Isn't hand done by experienced real smithies. Pythons had the trigger job done in the factory. That's why they had an MSRP of a grand or more.
Auctions sites are really no different than live auctions. Lots of hype and assorted BS.

[Eazyeach]

Thanks for the varied opinions. I wasn't trying to start a fanboy war. But it's been an interesting thread. Can we not agree that both companies make fine revolvers? Surprised cheapshooter hasn't posted to tell me not to sell any guns.

[Grant D]

Do I like Smith and Wessons? yup... have eight of them. four J's and four K's
Do I like Colts? yup.. have seven of them. five DA revolvers and two 1911's
But cocking the hammer on the Colt Python feels as smooth as a Swiss watch.

Hey Eazyeach, I'll take a Diamond back off your hands for $675.00
I promise to give it a good home.

[Homerboy]

S&W, TAurus. Ruger, Rossi, charter arms. All still make revolvers and sell them. Granted only ruger and s&w are high quality. Colts have always had a cult following for some reason. I fired one once. But the goofy ribbed barrel and clockwise cylinder rotation just don't do it for me.

So revolvers aren't dead yet and plenty are still being made. If colts were so great, colt would still be making them

Personally, I believe the allure of the colt is Samuel colt inventing the revolver, that they're no longer made so harder to get, and I am sure the main character on the walking dead using one. Local shop had one used for $3000 and it was stainless with black parts. Tag said "just like the one on the walking dead"

They do nothing better than a smith or a ruger. They put a hole in something where I line up the sights. And I'm not dumb enough To spend 2.5 times the price for a colt when a vintage smith from the same time frame in excellent shape will do the same thing.

[Don P]

This is a true, correct statement, however it does nothing... nothing to prove that the Python is a better revolver than "a Smith & Wesson," and in fact, it fails in multiple ways.

TRIGGER, TRIGGER, TRIGGER and fit ,finish hand crafted workmanship. S&W will never produce a revolver like Colt has with regards to the Python.

[Homerboy]

So why aren't they still making them? Some guys spend 4 grand on a 1911 while others by a RIA for 500. So there's a market if they wanted to.

And you don't even have to be super rich to spend 3 grand on a gun. How many guys here have motorcycles, quads, boats? I'm not looking to spend 3 grand on a gun cause I look at that as tools, but for somebody that really craves a Colt, they'd pony up (pun intended) the cash

But if Colt came back and made new pythons the old way, and priced them at $2500, most people would say "screw that". And that is why they're gone. Cause while a handmade 1911 offers advantages over a new Springfield for 1/3 the price, the Colt does nothing better than a model 27 or even a 686( pre lock of course. Wouldn't have one of those)

[micromontenegro]

Ah, Python envy! A sad feeling indeed!

[540mope]

All the money it takes to buy these...




can buy these...



lol..."Python envy"....NOT

[OzeanJaeger]

I collect Colts. I don't collect Smiths, but I have a few and love them. I'm always in the market for more. When I see a K, 14, or 29 in good shape I'm there.

The Colt's triggers stack. Smiths don't much. If you're used to shooting S&W DA you are not going to like shooting the Colts. In that respect Smiths are "better" IMO. If you're used to a trigger that stacks you can appreciate the even S&W DA pull, but it isn't a game changer.

The fit and finish of mid century S&Ws is exceptional, but it isn't the Python. They have that liquid metal look because of craftsmen taking hours to hand polish them before finishing that no other pistol before or since has. Many consider it a very attractive pistol, but the lack of any utilitarian value may irk a S&W guy.

Mechanically the S&W is tougher. It's not as hand tuned and delicate as the Colt action. Many armorers I've talked to hate working on snakes for this reason.

IMO, they're both fantastic and by far my favorite pistols, period. There is nothing today that even remotely compares.

[Eazyeach]

Haven't had a chance to get the new blue book yet. Does anyone know if the prices for pythons went up much? They were 1800 for newer ones and 2100 for older ones in last years book.

[SaxonPig]

I have wondered why Colt can't make a Python priced at $1,200 but maybe they can't. Or maybe they are simply not interested in the civilian handgun market. They have focused on military contracts for several years now.

The Colt vs. S&W debate will never end. S&W fans will maintain the Springfield products are best. The Colt guys insist the guns from Hartford are superi8or. I think it all depends on what you started with and used the most. I own more Smiths than Colts but I have enough Colts to like every bit as much as the S&Ws. I also feel the top of the Colt line Python is superior to the top of the S&W line Model 27 (my frame of reference ends in 1982) in fit and finish. I have owned and used many examples of both over the past 45 years and feel confident in my opinion.

BTW- I added another snake to the pile today. I have 3 Pythons and 2 Diamondbacks but today I bought my very first Colt snubby- a Cobra. In nickel, no less. Has some finish issues but appears to work fine and I had to have it at $325.

[Jeff #111]

I like them both. But Colts are more expensive. I recently purchased a Colt Woodsman 1st Issue (mfd. 1928) for $750.00. I could get a new revolver for less than that at my local Sportsmans Warehouse, but then Colt stopped making the Woodsman in 1977. I wanted it and I paid the price. Now it's in my safe. Beautiful pistol, but Colt prices are going up and up. No denying it.

I purchased a 1970's era Model 10 for $375.00 eighteen months ago. Around the same time I purchased a Colt Official Police for $500.00. A year ago I bought a Model 19 with the six inch barrel for $480.00. Approximately five years ago I purchased a Colt Lawman Mk III snubbie for $550.00. That particular model (the snubnose configuration) is now up in the 700 - 800 dollar price range on GB.

As I said I like them both, but Smiths are a better bargain. Both are well made with their own unique strengths and weaknesses. I also like Ruger revolvers FWIW.

[tipoc]

It was in about 2000 that Colt ceased making the Python on regular production lines. It's production became a Custom Shop item from then on and many fewer were produced or sold. They were going for about $1200. at that time and were not selling well enough for Colt to keep producing them. Colt's entire line of da revolvers were not selling well. Price was the critical factor.

In a 1998 issue of "Handguns" magazine I have on hand they list the following MSRP on some Colt revolvers:

Colt Anaconda in 45Colt, stainless steel 6"barrel...$612.

King Cobra, stainless 6" barrel...$455.

Python, stainless, 6" barrel...$904.
Python bright stainless 6" barrel...$935

At the same time a person could get:

Ruger GP100 with a 6" barrel...$474.

Ruger Redhawk, 5 1/2" barrel...$547. in stainless

S&W 629...$640.

S&W 686...$537.

As the overwhelming majority of wheelgunners could not tell the accuracy difference between a Python and a 686 or GP100 and had no use for a $800. knockaround gun, the Python was not selling well in 1998 or 2000. The semi-auto was king as well. If a fella wanted to spen $850. on a gun, well Kimber had just started making 1911s.

tipoc

[Clark]

I paid $1418 for a 1978 Python 357Mag in Dec 2013.
I paid $425 for a 1957 Cobra 38sp in June 2014.

They are not my favorite Colt revolvers.

I like better:
I paid $540 for an 1930 Officer's Special 22LR Mar 2013
I paid $356 for a 1922 Army special 32-20 Dec 2012

[buck460XVR]

While many try and justify the outrageous prices asked for "snakes" nowadays, there isn't really any other than "demand". Demand driven by the fact that they are the latest "in" thing to own. Owning one in 2014 is like owning a Harley in 2002. Limited availability and a new found popularity amongst those with expendable income, drove prices and demand even higher. Folks that never owned a motorcycle before, were now spending $3000 over MSRP, just to have something they could park in the driveway and have their neighbors lust after. Yep, many justified the cost because of Harley's state of the art paint job or the unmistakable sound they made goin' down the road. Much of the demand had nuttin' to do with the ride or having your face in the wind, it was about posting a thread with pics on the internet about your new bike to try and impress others. This is where I see the "snakes" at. While like with Harleys, there are true shooters that appreciate the "snakes" for what they really are, it isn't the attributes of the gun itself that is driving up the price, but the hype put on them by folks that have them and the desire by those that don't to own one. Add to this the fact they don't make 'em anymore. The fact that Colt doesn't make them anymore, plus the fact the last few production years guns were hard to sell, says something overall about what legitimate "shooters" wanted and demanded at the time. While they were, and still are very fine firearms, folks at that time that actually shot handguns, realized that their attributes were not worth the extra monies. This is not fan-boy talk, but real life merchandising. Why after so many years of folks screaming for Colt to bring back the originals, have we not seen them yet? We heard talk of Colt bringing back DA revolvers, but does anyone really think they will be like the old "snakes" in fit/finish/trigger and sell for a price comparable with other quality mass produced DA revolvers? Will they be be worth the extra price on them anymore today than a decade ago? I dunno. But the prices today surely are not there because of the outstanding shooting of the firearms, nor do they reflect the fine fit and finish, because those differences over the other quality mass produced DA revolvers is not as much as the difference in price. Demand, promoted by hype on internet forums(my LGS claims they are the reason behind high snake prices) and limited availability is what is driving the price. No doubt about it, they are fine firearms and odds are we will never see another like them being mass produced for the average shooter, at a price the average shooter can afford. But whether the gun itself deserves the high prices being asked will always be subjective, and will always be debated. Has been ever since gun forums have been around and odds are will be till they, like the original snakes, have ceased to exist. Odds are the arguments, like "what gun for bear", "best caliber for SD" will always be the same, and the debate never settled...........

[Sevens]

I can agree with most of that except for the "limited availability" part. I suppose it absolutely depends on your circle of travel and where you go to see & look for guns, but these were made in varying amounts from 1955 to the bitter end of the 1990's and there are production numbers out there that suggest well over 500,000 of these revolvers were produced.

In almost any way I would try and assess that number, "limited" isn't one of them. I definitely see a number of them at any gun show I attend.

For an apples to Buicks comparison, I can state that over the last 3 years of hitting different gun shows, I've (literally, truthfully) seen far more Colt Python revolvers than I have examples of a Ruger Security Six.

Certainly, you could make the argument that there's such a small amount of "sellable value" in the 'Six' series that dealers don't spend energy getting them and marketing them... but I am saying that it's not even close.

[Clark]

My math of gun appreciation for 10 years or 100 years looks much like the math for guitar appreciation.
3% compounded annually.
% annual Return = [1- year root [now price / then price]] x 100

The fringe exceptions:
Colt SAA much better than 3%
Mossberg bolt action 16 ga shotguns much less than 3%.
My security portfolio for the last 20 years is 20% compounded annually.
My real estate holdings for the last 20 years is 5% compounded annually.
Calculated average inflation for the last 20 years 4.48%
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com...flation-rates/

There are many things that cost extra because they are no longer manufactured. HP 11 hex calculators are one. But if HP started making them again, they would slide down such a steep slope of the demand curve that the price would be very low.



Colt double action revolvers are harder to manufacture than calculators.
Someday we may be able to scan some Colt parts and voila CNC built parts will fit like the highly skilled Colt workers used to fit them.
When that happens, we may get the best Colt Pythons ever built for cheap. Until then, we are stuck way up on the left side of the demand curve.

[tipoc]

From Saxon Pig:

I have wondered why Colt can't make a Python priced at $1,200 but maybe they can't.

They were making one several years ago, about 5-6 years ago, as I pointed out. No one was buying them. At least not enough that continued production was profitable. It's important to note that while new production Pythons were not selling older models were selling and at prices much higher than the new.

...Or maybe they are simply not interested in the civilian handgun market. They have focused on military contracts for several years now.

Both statements are untrue and old chestnuts written by an old chestnut whose love for Smith and Wessons has blinded him and caused him to forget the many times his errors on Colt have been refuted and the several times he has been involved in just this discussion.

tipoc

[Joe_Pike]

I noticed a Python sold for $10, 225 on Gunbroker this evening.

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by Sevens: I can agree with most of that except for the "limited availability" part.

You are correct, I should have said "perceived limited availability". Again, something promoted by online gun forums and those that own them. While they are no longer made, there were tons of them made when they were in production.

[spacecoast]

Not sure this is a new pinnacle for Python Mania, but a 3" stainless Combat model just went for $41K on Gunbroker.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=442236426

I really don't get it. Yes, they are beautiful guns at the peak of the Colt DA revolver pecking order, but there is really nothing that historic or rare about them. This one was shipped in 2003.

[4 Paws]

Not sure this is a new pinnacle for Python Mania, but a 3" stainless Combat model just went for $41K on Gunbroker

Good lord, no doubt a beautiful revolver, but at $41K have we reached the peak?

[JayCee]

Not sure this is a new pinnacle for Python Mania, but a 3" stainless Combat model just went for $41K on Gunbroker.

I guess you really have to be a Python aficionado to understand why someone would cough up that much money for a run-of-the-mill 357 magnum revolver. Obviously, I'm not a Python aficionado...

[Jeff #111]

$41K for a Python? Even a stainless steel 3" Python is staggering. I make approximately $55,000 a year. The idea of paying that much for a revolver....... good grief I see second hand Holland & Holland and Westley Richards shotguns go for that much. Even a little less. I like Colt revolvers, but that's crazy.

[JimPage]

I have .38 blue 4" Diamondback I bought around 1965 for $125. A dealer told me not to take less than $1200 for it. I may sell it since I can't see the sights anymore Actually thinking of selling all my pistols except my carry guns.

But I sure do hate the thought of letting them go