Unburnt Powder

lizziedog1 · May 31, 2006, 07:43 PM

I have an older revolver. It is small Colt double action in .32 New Police. It does fire the .32 S&W long cartridge. The gun is in excellent condition and is a pretty decent shooter. However, my initial loads left a lot of unburnt powder.

I used new Starline brass, Winchester small pistol primers, 5 grains of 2400, and a 90 grain cast bullet. The groups were decent at 15 yards and the revolver was shooting close to point of aim.

Should I switch to a faster powder? Should I try a hotter primer?

Ruger4570 · May 31, 2006, 08:06 PM

Faster powder will most likely help with the unburned flakes, but if you are getting good accuracy,,, repeatedly,, why care.

Leftoverdj · May 31, 2006, 09:05 PM

Three grains of WW231 would be a more usual load if you have it, but there sure ain't no reason to go out and buy some.

**Unclenick** · May 31, 2006, 09:27 PM

2400 is usually used for something closer to a magnum load and is too slow for good efficiency in a low pressure load. QuickLOAD says that even if you have a six inch barrel, you are only burning about 44% of the powder while the bullet is still in the barrel. All the rest is wasted, and because most of it is burning at low pressure, it doesn't burn well or completely.

The .32 LC does well with small amounts of very fast powders. 1.5 grains of either Hodgdon Clays or Vihtavuori N310 will both burn 100% and give you velocity in the normal range for target loads. Because they burn 100%, you need much less to generate the gas to propel the bullet; no waste and nothing having to burn at low pressure. Bullseye or W231 may be used at 2.3 grains, but will not burn as completely (80-90% range) and will be dirtier. Alliant Red Dot or Accurate Nitro 100 loaded to 1.8 grains will give almost 100% burning (97% in a 5" tube). The Red Dot gives a bit more velocity than the others at this chamber pressure (roughly matched to that of your 2400 load for all the above charges).

Nick

Ruger4570 · May 31, 2006, 10:08 PM

Hey guys,, I didn't mean to sound like I thought 2400 was the BEST choice. I just figured lizziedog had a supply, it shot well and he should use it up. But I totally agree and said faster powder was a better choice for cleaner burn (also economy). I don't shoot a .32 but I do use a lot of clays and red dot in my 9mm. I sure hope I didn't have lizziedog misunderstand.

Leftoverdj · May 31, 2006, 10:22 PM

Chill, Ruger. You were clear and right. If 2400 is what he has, he may as well use it.

Ruger4570 · May 31, 2006, 10:26 PM

Ok,, ok,, I am cool,, ok I am ok,, ok,, I am ok,, cool here.. LOL

lizziedog1 · May 31, 2006, 10:30 PM

Thanks for all of the responses. I think I will try a faster powder. The 2400 I am using now is even gumming up the revolver with unburnt powder. I guess that fine stuff gets into everything.

I was using 2400 because I have a supply of it and I wanted a low pressure load because of the gun's age. I have had it checked by a gunsmith. He gave me the thumbs up to shoot it. I guess I want to shoot it and try to keep the loads as powder puffed as possible.

I have some Green Dot on hand. Should I try it?

Ruger4570 · May 31, 2006, 10:35 PM

Lizziedog. I sort of assumed you had a supply of 2400 to use up,, as you have seen,, it ain't the best choice,, but we use what we have.. Green dot should work,, but i don't have any data right here to verify it. It is slower than red dot,but not a world of different. Just use published data and you will be fine. In small cases like the 32,, faster is probably better,,,, just be sure to be careful of double charges of any fast powder. Great luck with it

Leftoverdj · June 1, 2006, 10:10 AM

Lizziedog, from your description. you have a Police Positive. It should not be hotrodded, but it doesn't need to limited to the powderpuff loads for the topbreaks of the period. Any book load should be fine.

Metering charges smaller than three grains is difficult. I shoot AA-5 in the .32 S&L Long because it meters very well and uses somewhat larger charges than the very fast pistol powders. Previously, I used WW 231, and was fairly satisfied with that. Any of the fast pistol powders should give a good load, but the ball powders are a lot easier to work with. Particularly avoid Unique, it's about perfect in burning rate, but you'll wind up having to weigh and trickle every charge.

If you are not casting yourself, you should know about the Hornady swaged SWCs. They are widely available and inexpensive. I've had very good results with them.

lizziedog1 · June 1, 2006, 06:53 PM

Close, the gun I have is a Pocket Positive. I believe it is a smaller version of the Police Positive.

For small charges I use Lee Dippers. I don't want to start a dipper debate here, but I find them handy when I am charging a bunch of small handgun cases with small powder charges.

I am going to try Green Dot woth my next batch of reloads.

**Unclenick** · June 1, 2006, 10:28 PM

I don't know the barrel length on that gun without looking it up, but for comparative purposes, 2.0 grains of Green Dot will match your original load pressure and performance, burning 97% in a 5" tube. Given the grit and grime problem, I think you will be happier with it.

My dad used to solder a paperclip to a .25 ACP case rim, then shorten the case as needed to make a low charge dipper. You can also clean out the inside of a .22 LR case with steel wool, then solder the paperclip to the outside and simply melt solder into the inside until it comes up high enough to leave you with the powder capacity you want. Gives you a nice concave bottom if the solder wets the brass well.

Nick

Ifishsum · June 1, 2006, 11:41 PM

I think the starting load of 2.0gr green dot is right on but I'd weigh the charges - I haven't had good luck getting consistent measures of small charges with dippers with the large flake powders.

lizziedog1 · June 5, 2006, 11:15 PM

I decided to put together some loads using 231. I wanted to use about 2.5 grains. The smallest Lee dipper would throw 3.0 grains. I tried an experiment and it worked. I took a small piece of cardboard and stuffed into the dipper bowl. Then I weighed a charge. The first one was 2.4 grains. To make sure it wasn't dumb luck, I repeated this ten times. Everyone measured 2.4 grains. So know I'll see how 2.4 grains of 231 will work in my .32.

lizziedog1 · June 10, 2006, 10:54 PM

The 231 loads worked fine. There was hardly any unburnt powder residue. The grouping was similar to the 2400's but the point of impact was lower with same weight bullets. The report was a little sharper as was recoil. I theorize the faster burning powder must be giving faster velocities and therefore lower bullet impacts.

I am finding the .32 S&W cartridge an interesting round. Does anyone else here have expereince with it? What are you favorite loads for it?

May 31, 2006, 07:43 PM	#1
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	Unburnt Powder I have an older revolver. It is small Colt double action in .32 New Police. It does fire the .32 S&W long cartridge. The gun is in excellent condition and is a pretty decent shooter. However, my initial loads left a lot of unburnt powder. I used new Starline brass, Winchester small pistol primers, 5 grains of 2400, and a 90 grain cast bullet. The groups were decent at 15 yards and the revolver was shooting close to point of aim. Should I switch to a faster powder? Should I try a hotter primer?

May 31, 2006, 09:27 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	2400 is usually used for something closer to a magnum load and is too slow for good efficiency in a low pressure load. QuickLOAD says that even if you have a six inch barrel, you are only burning about 44% of the powder while the bullet is still in the barrel. All the rest is wasted, and because most of it is burning at low pressure, it doesn't burn well or completely. The .32 LC does well with small amounts of very fast powders. 1.5 grains of either Hodgdon Clays or Vihtavuori N310 will both burn 100% and give you velocity in the normal range for target loads. Because they burn 100%, you need much less to generate the gas to propel the bullet; no waste and nothing having to burn at low pressure. Bullseye or W231 may be used at 2.3 grains, but will not burn as completely (80-90% range) and will be dirtier. Alliant Red Dot or Accurate Nitro 100 loaded to 1.8 grains will give almost 100% burning (97% in a 5" tube). The Red Dot gives a bit more velocity than the others at this chamber pressure (roughly matched to that of your 2400 load for all the above charges). Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 1, 2006, 10:28 PM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I don't know the barrel length on that gun without looking it up, but for comparative purposes, 2.0 grains of Green Dot will match your original load pressure and performance, burning 97% in a 5" tube. Given the grit and grime problem, I think you will be happier with it. My dad used to solder a paperclip to a .25 ACP case rim, then shorten the case as needed to make a low charge dipper. You can also clean out the inside of a .22 LR case with steel wool, then solder the paperclip to the outside and simply melt solder into the inside until it comes up high enough to leave you with the powder capacity you want. Gives you a nice concave bottom if the solder wets the brass well. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 31, 2006, 08:06 PM	#2
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Faster powder will most likely help with the unburned flakes, but if you are getting good accuracy,,, repeatedly,, why care.

May 31, 2006, 09:05 PM	#3
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	Three grains of WW231 would be a more usual load if you have it, but there sure ain't no reason to go out and buy some.

May 31, 2006, 10:08 PM	#5
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Hey guys,, I didn't mean to sound like I thought 2400 was the BEST choice. I just figured lizziedog had a supply, it shot well and he should use it up. But I totally agree and said faster powder was a better choice for cleaner burn (also economy). I don't shoot a .32 but I do use a lot of clays and red dot in my 9mm. I sure hope I didn't have lizziedog misunderstand.

May 31, 2006, 10:22 PM	#6
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	Chill, Ruger. You were clear and right. If 2400 is what he has, he may as well use it.

May 31, 2006, 10:26 PM	#7
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Ok,, ok,, I am cool,, ok I am ok,, ok,, I am ok,, cool here.. LOL

May 31, 2006, 10:30 PM	#8
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	Thanks for all of the responses. I think I will try a faster powder. The 2400 I am using now is even gumming up the revolver with unburnt powder. I guess that fine stuff gets into everything. I was using 2400 because I have a supply of it and I wanted a low pressure load because of the gun's age. I have had it checked by a gunsmith. He gave me the thumbs up to shoot it. I guess I want to shoot it and try to keep the loads as powder puffed as possible. I have some Green Dot on hand. Should I try it?

May 31, 2006, 10:35 PM	#9
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Lizziedog. I sort of assumed you had a supply of 2400 to use up,, as you have seen,, it ain't the best choice,, but we use what we have.. Green dot should work,, but i don't have any data right here to verify it. It is slower than red dot,but not a world of different. Just use published data and you will be fine. In small cases like the 32,, faster is probably better,,,, just be sure to be careful of double charges of any fast powder. Great luck with it

June 1, 2006, 10:10 AM	#10
Leftoverdj Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2004 Posts: 934	Lizziedog, from your description. you have a Police Positive. It should not be hotrodded, but it doesn't need to limited to the powderpuff loads for the topbreaks of the period. Any book load should be fine. Metering charges smaller than three grains is difficult. I shoot AA-5 in the .32 S&L Long because it meters very well and uses somewhat larger charges than the very fast pistol powders. Previously, I used WW 231, and was fairly satisfied with that. Any of the fast pistol powders should give a good load, but the ball powders are a lot easier to work with. Particularly avoid Unique, it's about perfect in burning rate, but you'll wind up having to weigh and trickle every charge. If you are not casting yourself, you should know about the Hornady swaged SWCs. They are widely available and inexpensive. I've had very good results with them.

June 1, 2006, 06:53 PM	#11
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	Close, the gun I have is a Pocket Positive. I believe it is a smaller version of the Police Positive. For small charges I use Lee Dippers. I don't want to start a dipper debate here, but I find them handy when I am charging a bunch of small handgun cases with small powder charges. I am going to try Green Dot woth my next batch of reloads.

June 1, 2006, 11:41 PM	#13
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	I think the starting load of 2.0gr green dot is right on but I'd weigh the charges - I haven't had good luck getting consistent measures of small charges with dippers with the large flake powders.

June 5, 2006, 11:15 PM	#14
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	I decided to put together some loads using 231. I wanted to use about 2.5 grains. The smallest Lee dipper would throw 3.0 grains. I tried an experiment and it worked. I took a small piece of cardboard and stuffed into the dipper bowl. Then I weighed a charge. The first one was 2.4 grains. To make sure it wasn't dumb luck, I repeated this ten times. Everyone measured 2.4 grains. So know I'll see how 2.4 grains of 231 will work in my .32.

June 10, 2006, 10:54 PM	#15
lizziedog1 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2005 Posts: 289	The 231 loads worked fine. There was hardly any unburnt powder residue. The grouping was similar to the 2400's but the point of impact was lower with same weight bullets. The report was a little sharper as was recoil. I theorize the faster burning powder must be giving faster velocities and therefore lower bullet impacts. I am finding the .32 S&W cartridge an interesting round. Does anyone else here have expereince with it? What are you favorite loads for it?