Brandishing a firearm

[jgant79]

I have a general question. this morning a guy brandishing his weapon saying a bunch of foolish things, the guy even said he would shoot me. Now I have a cpl and an ex-marine and do have my weapon on me at all times but something in me told me not to deal with it. I know Michigan laws but I'm just wondering would I have been in the wrong if I shot the guy????

[Clay]

I don't know how MI works, but in NC, if he pulled his gun out you had the immediate right to shoot.

[gearhounds]

More facts, please. Do you know this guy? Did he flash it from his carry spot, or pull it and wave it around? If you do nothing else, call the police report it. More info would be helpful.

[jgant79]

We were in the car on the freeway with morning rush hour traffic. So he just pulled it from some where in the car. He did point and wave the gun towards me. And no i don't no him never seen the guy

[Powderman]

If you were in your car, shooting at him would NOT be the best thing to do. Consider: you're in a moving vehicle, shooting at a moving target, and the bullets are going to go SOMEWHERE--not necessarily where you want.

What should you have done?

1. Break contact NOW. Drive away, or slow down to get away from the guy.
2. Call 911 IMMEDIATELY. Give a description and plate number, and describe the firearm. This is important because it verifies to the dispatcher that you ARE seeing a firearm, and that the person is brandishing the weapon.
3. Do NOT drive directly to your destination. Instead, go to the nearest police station or State Patrol barracks.
4. LEAVE YOUR CELL PHONE ON, AND STAY IN CONTACT WITH THE 911 DISPATCHER. Make sure you give the play-by-play as it happens.

[Jimmy10mm]

In a road rage traffic altercation back in the late '70s a friend of mine got out of his car and waved nunchucks around. The other fellow said he didn't want any trouble and they both got in their respective cars and drove to the next red light.

At that light the other fellow pulled a gun and shot my friend in the neck fatally wounding him. My friend drove to a hospital but bled out by the time he pulled into the driveway. At minimum you should have gotten the guy's plate # and reported the incident. As for shooting back, these incidents call for split second decision making and it is hard to say what would have been the right thing to do.

You remain unscathed and no moral or legal ramifications to deal with so I suppose all is well that ends well.

[OsOk-308]

What I hate about what this man did, is that it can so often spread the idea to the anti-gun lobbyists that ALL gun owners are hotheaded, irresponsible, reckless individuals. If you were in the car and traveling at fast speeds, I think getting his license plate number and calling the police would be the BEST scenario. Believe it or not, I've had this happen too. At that time I tried to take his license plate number down, but he then drove off very quickly. Now, I didn't provoke him, or pull out the handgun I had in the car. And yes I was afraid he might so something crazy, I slowed down (it would be impossible for him to shoot at me behind him while he looked where he was going) , pulled behind him and tried to get his license plate, then he took off. I figured he was going a considerable speed above the speed limit and decided that following him then was a bad idea.

What I've always been taught is that a firearm is your LAST line of defense. You use it when all else fails. Calling the police on him would be the most level headed thing to do, and have the least amount of legal backlash for you.

If you were in your car, shooting at him would NOT be the best thing to do. Consider: you're in a moving vehicle, shooting at a moving target, and the bullets are going to go SOMEWHERE--not necessarily where you want.

+1. Legally, you are responsible for every shot you fire. If you accidentally miss and hit a child, the jury would not care that you were acting in self defense, and the prosecution would fry you.

To quote the movie Spiderman: With great power comes great responsibility.

[Willie Lowman]

It was probably someone from the "tactics and training" forum. I see posts about waving guns at people there every week. Look around up there, you might see the guy.

[LordTio3]

To quote the movie Spiderman: With great power comes great responsibility.

You're actually quoting the great Stan Lee, creator of many Marvel heroes.

And this sounds like a guy got mad at traffic and just wanted to get people out of his way in a fashion that yelling and honking his horn was apparently not accomplishing. That being said, no person that does this is a completely sane and rational person; hence reasoning with them is often a moot point.

So reasoning is out the window. So your other options are to fight or get away. Firing a weapon in traffic from a moving car to another moving car is not something that we train for. If people are highly mobile, there are too many variables and too many innocent bystanders at risk. Not to mention that you have motive and opportunity to RETREAT. For God's sake, you are behind the wheel of your car; the device which people most often employ to make a hasty getaway. When in Rome, and all that...

If you feel the impulse and urge to exercise your sense of civic responsibility, then try your best to get his plate number and call the police. Well, call the police anyway, but this way at least you'll have more to tell them. Pulling a gun out in this situation would be a bad idea.
_________________________________________
Officer: Hello, Mr. Disgruntled Driver. Why did you pull your gun and intimidate Mr. JGant?
DD: Well because I saw his gun first and thought he would shoot me.
JG: No freaking way! He pulled out his gun FIRST!
DD: Nuh uh...
Officer: Well you're both going to jail because 3 other cars all have damage from you neanderthals trying to shoot and get away from each other.

Sound like something you really want to be dealing with?

~LT

[rcoe]

Funny a Jgrant on the MGO forum had a very similar incident with a female training a laser on him in traffic.

Makes one wonder if people with the initials of Jg are not safe on Michigan roads.

[45Gunner]

I know Michigan laws but I'm just wondering would I have been in the wrong if I shot the guy????

Any one that takes the responsibility of carrying a gun knows that shooting someone is only valid if you feel your life is in eminent danger or you think you are going to suffer great bodily harm. (There are a few other reasons but they do not apply to this situation.) Because you did not shoot this person foolishly brandishing a gun sort of answers the question before it was asked.

Any time you pull the trigger, you have induced a wave of action and expense that will change your life forever unless, of course, there was irrefutable evidence that you were about to be killed by a deadly force. If there is even a shadow of a doubt, your legal fees will take years to recoup and your life will be turned upside down and examined in ways that you could never perceive. With your responsibility comes the exercise of common sense. I am not saying not to protect yourself when that time ever comes, and we all hope it never does, but that is the basis of carrying a gun, to preserve life...ours and that of our loved ones. Use sound judgement and make sure you are 100% right. You did good by not shooting this other guy with a gun. Two wrongs do not make a right.

[ltc444]

If you are in Pinal County AZ and someone brandishs a gun at you, be sure and check the Sheriff's offical and unofficial contributors list before you take any action.

It would probably be better to get shot than shoot the offender or report the incident.

[pro tc]

nevermind

[HarrySchell]

Tactically, probably the best way to keep from getting shot is to evade the shooter by slowing down or turning, concentrating on car control and maneuver.

Trying to drive and shoot at the same time, where is your car going and who might you hit with either or both your weapon and car (which is a weapon, too...lots of mass and kinetic energy, capacity to hurt things and people)?

Get on the phone and let the cops try to handle it. Less can go wrong.

[Kreyzhorse]

If you were in your car, shooting at him would NOT be the best thing to do. Consider: you're in a moving vehicle, shooting at a moving target, and the bullets are going to go SOMEWHERE--not necessarily where you want.

+1. Shooting him from one vehicle to the next would likely end up very badly for you.