Pressure Estimate: 9mm 125g "SmallBall" & Universal

azar92 · January 7, 2010, 04:24 PM

After enjoying reloading rifles for a few years I finally decided to give pistol reloading a try. I'm loading for my Springfield XD9 using Missouri Bullet's 125 grain "SmallBall" and Hodgdon Universal powder.

Here's the setup:
Springfield XD9 w/ 4" Barrel
125g Missouri Bullet "SmallBall" LRN
Hodgdon Universal powder
Remington 1 1/2 Primer
Winchester brass
C.O.A.L 1.075" (may reduce it slighly further to 1.069")

The load from data.hodgdon.com for a 125g LRN lists 3.8g to 4.3g as the charge range with a C.O.A.L of 1.125". At that OAL the bullets wouldn't chamber. I determined it wasn't due to any flare remaining on the case or a resizing issue but that the bullet was contacting the rifling. I reduced the OAL by 0.005" until they appeared to chamber easily (1.080") and backed off another 0.005" to settle on 1.075" This is 0.050" shorter than Hodgdon's listed load. I'd like to know how this changes the pressure and what QuickLoad believes the new max would be.

If someone would be so kind to run it through QuickLoad and show me what the program thinks this will do I'd greatly appreciate it.

**Unclenick** · January 7, 2010, 08:55 PM

Azar,

The critical thing will be seating depth. That varies with bullet length for a given COL. Can you post your bullet length? Also, can you take one of your fired cases that is average weight and weigh it, then fill it with water level with the mouth (no meniscus) and weigh it again? Give the difference in the two weights. Also, provide the length of that case. With that info QuickLOAD can be used more accurately to find where the maximum lies?

Be aware that it is not uncommon for primers in pistol rounds to push the bullets out part way, lowering the pressure, so this would be a worst case calculation.

azar92 · January 7, 2010, 11:46 PM

A few problems... I don't have any once fired brass from my gun. I haven't shot it regularly in years because I've been almost exclusively reloading and shooting rifle and I previously had no plans to reload for 9x19.

I have now scrounged up about 350 pieces of range brass (about 1/2 Winchester) and have resized and reloaded those. I can however, give you some measurements of the actual bullets. I wasn't sure if you'd need it since QuickLoad has that bullet in it's database (at least version 3.5 does).

I measured 5 bullets and 4 of 5 measured at 0.566" with the average weight of 124.8g.

azar92 · January 9, 2010, 11:40 PM

Average of 5 once fired Winchester cases from my Springfield XD-9 is 13.6 grains.

**Unclenick** · January 10, 2010, 05:20 PM

There is no Missouri Bullet database in QuickLOAD. I'm running 3.6, and I've never seen one removed. If someone ran that bullet for you before, it was either because they had entered the bullet in manually for themselves (easy to do) or made the mistake of thinking you can just substitute anyone's 125 grain LRN bullet of the same weight for any other make. Also, I find the program's bullet database not to be very accurate on bullet length in many instances. Rather than buying all the different kinds of bullets there are in it, it appears the author just measures photos and pictures of the bullets, which don't always come up distortion free. So, even if that bullet had been in there, I would have asked you to measure some.

Your case has .3 grains more capacity than the default for 9mm Luger in the Database. If I use that with the bullet length you provided and 125 grains of weight and 1.075" COL, QuickLOAD says 3.8 grains of Universal will produce 22,476 psi, and 4.3 will produce 29,859 psi. If I drop back to the default capacity, the numbers go up to 23,760 psi and 31,722 psi. Velocity predictions are 978, 989 fps for the 3.8 grain charge, and 1,078 to 1,089 fps for the 4.3 grain charge in a 4" barrel. Exactly 100 fps apart in both instances.

azar92 · January 10, 2010, 10:54 PM

Thanks Unclenick. As always, you are fantastic help.

dfe2240 · January 10, 2010, 11:10 PM

FWIW, I use a COL of 1.100 with both Hornady (.545" long) and Montana Gold (.560" long) 115grain FMJs in a Glock 19 with no cycle problems. I've also used longer COLs with no problems. I'd think the XD would handle them as well. Could your charge weight or the powder itself be the problem? As a test, you could try some factory ammo and see if it feeds properly.

azar92 · January 10, 2010, 11:20 PM

The ogive of the bullet will largely determine seating depth. I've encountered at least two other individuals shooting the same bullet that also had to seat it around the same depth as I did (with different guns than the XD).

No problems. I tested all loads yesterday. All 3.8g to 4.3g cycled the action fine without a single hitch. I think I'll retest both the 4.1g and 4.2g loads and see which I shoot better and stick with that.

Thanks again Unclenick for your help.

azar92 · February 4, 2010, 05:27 PM

I loaded up 50 rounds of 4.2g of Universal and tested them about 3 weeks ago. 100% fired and cycled without a hitch. Recoil seemed a bit softer than what I remember from factory rounds. I believe the gun was throwing brass more or less like it normally does with a factory round too (it's been too long since I had factory rounds to shoot so I can't be sure).

The only issue I had with it was that there was more leading than I'd like to see. Not excessive, but not minimal either. With a BHN of 18 should I increase the charge to prevent leading that is likely due to gas cutting? What would be the highest predicted charge of Universal that would stay within the 35,000 psi limit?

January 7, 2010, 04:24 PM	#1
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	Pressure Estimate: 9mm 125g "SmallBall" & Universal After enjoying reloading rifles for a few years I finally decided to give pistol reloading a try. I'm loading for my Springfield XD9 using Missouri Bullet's 125 grain "SmallBall" and Hodgdon Universal powder. Here's the setup: Springfield XD9 w/ 4" Barrel 125g Missouri Bullet "SmallBall" LRN Hodgdon Universal powder Remington 1 1/2 Primer Winchester brass C.O.A.L 1.075" (may reduce it slighly further to 1.069") The load from data.hodgdon.com for a 125g LRN lists 3.8g to 4.3g as the charge range with a C.O.A.L of 1.125". At that OAL the bullets wouldn't chamber. I determined it wasn't due to any flare remaining on the case or a resizing issue but that the bullet was contacting the rifling. I reduced the OAL by 0.005" until they appeared to chamber easily (1.080") and backed off another 0.005" to settle on 1.075" This is 0.050" shorter than Hodgdon's listed load. I'd like to know how this changes the pressure and what QuickLoad believes the new max would be. If someone would be so kind to run it through QuickLoad and show me what the program thinks this will do I'd greatly appreciate it.

January 7, 2010, 08:55 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Azar, The critical thing will be seating depth. That varies with bullet length for a given COL. Can you post your bullet length? Also, can you take one of your fired cases that is average weight and weigh it, then fill it with water level with the mouth (no meniscus) and weigh it again? Give the difference in the two weights. Also, provide the length of that case. With that info QuickLOAD can be used more accurately to find where the maximum lies? Be aware that it is not uncommon for primers in pistol rounds to push the bullets out part way, lowering the pressure, so this would be a worst case calculation. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 10, 2010, 05:20 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	There is no Missouri Bullet database in QuickLOAD. I'm running 3.6, and I've never seen one removed. If someone ran that bullet for you before, it was either because they had entered the bullet in manually for themselves (easy to do) or made the mistake of thinking you can just substitute anyone's 125 grain LRN bullet of the same weight for any other make. Also, I find the program's bullet database not to be very accurate on bullet length in many instances. Rather than buying all the different kinds of bullets there are in it, it appears the author just measures photos and pictures of the bullets, which don't always come up distortion free. So, even if that bullet had been in there, I would have asked you to measure some. Your case has .3 grains more capacity than the default for 9mm Luger in the Database. If I use that with the bullet length you provided and 125 grains of weight and 1.075" COL, QuickLOAD says 3.8 grains of Universal will produce 22,476 psi, and 4.3 will produce 29,859 psi. If I drop back to the default capacity, the numbers go up to 23,760 psi and 31,722 psi. Velocity predictions are 978, 989 fps for the 3.8 grain charge, and 1,078 to 1,089 fps for the 4.3 grain charge in a 4" barrel. Exactly 100 fps apart in both instances. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 7, 2010, 11:46 PM	#3
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	A few problems... I don't have any once fired brass from my gun. I haven't shot it regularly in years because I've been almost exclusively reloading and shooting rifle and I previously had no plans to reload for 9x19. I have now scrounged up about 350 pieces of range brass (about 1/2 Winchester) and have resized and reloaded those. I can however, give you some measurements of the actual bullets. I wasn't sure if you'd need it since QuickLoad has that bullet in it's database (at least version 3.5 does). I measured 5 bullets and 4 of 5 measured at 0.566" with the average weight of 124.8g.

January 9, 2010, 11:40 PM	#4
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	Average of 5 once fired Winchester cases from my Springfield XD-9 is 13.6 grains.

January 10, 2010, 10:54 PM	#6
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	Thanks Unclenick. As always, you are fantastic help.

January 10, 2010, 11:10 PM	#7
dfe2240 Member Join Date: January 7, 2010 Posts: 56	FWIW, I use a COL of 1.100 with both Hornady (.545" long) and Montana Gold (.560" long) 115grain FMJs in a Glock 19 with no cycle problems. I've also used longer COLs with no problems. I'd think the XD would handle them as well. Could your charge weight or the powder itself be the problem? As a test, you could try some factory ammo and see if it feeds properly.

January 10, 2010, 11:20 PM	#8
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	The ogive of the bullet will largely determine seating depth. I've encountered at least two other individuals shooting the same bullet that also had to seat it around the same depth as I did (with different guns than the XD). No problems. I tested all loads yesterday. All 3.8g to 4.3g cycled the action fine without a single hitch. I think I'll retest both the 4.1g and 4.2g loads and see which I shoot better and stick with that. Thanks again Unclenick for your help.

February 4, 2010, 05:27 PM	#9
azar92 Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2009 Location: Utah Posts: 209	I loaded up 50 rounds of 4.2g of Universal and tested them about 3 weeks ago. 100% fired and cycled without a hitch. Recoil seemed a bit softer than what I remember from factory rounds. I believe the gun was throwing brass more or less like it normally does with a factory round too (it's been too long since I had factory rounds to shoot so I can't be sure). The only issue I had with it was that there was more leading than I'd like to see. Not excessive, but not minimal either. With a BHN of 18 should I increase the charge to prevent leading that is likely due to gas cutting? What would be the highest predicted charge of Universal that would stay within the 35,000 psi limit?