M1A- M14 Questions

Hunterpeaks · December 31, 2011, 11:12 PM

I have been canvassing all the NFA websites etc looking for a FA M14 to purchase. There aren't many out there.

Why is this? Are there less FA M14's out there than other FA guns?
I have never shot one, so for those of you that have shot a FA M14, is this thing a bear to handle on FA? Is it pretty much useless on FA? Or not?

I can't believe that searching for a couple of weeks for one has only turned up 3 for sale, but if that's truly the case, then seems to me that this would be a good investment for the future. Thoughts on investment of an M14 Vs. an M16?

Thanks much
Hunter

James K · December 31, 2011, 11:45 PM

The simple answer is that very few (if any) "real" M14's were ever released to the public and registered, and I have never seen one. The guns sold as "M14's" have not been ex-GI guns; they are either Springfield Armory police guns(the private company) or rebuilt M1A's or others that started out as semi-autos, and were remanufactured and registered prior to 1986.

The Army did loan M14's to state rifle teams and to police departments, and some of those "leaked" but cannot be registered or legally owned because they are stolen property. (One braggart a couple of years ago posted that he had a TRW M14 his uncle, the police chief, had sold him and that made it legal. I don't know if BATFE picked up on that one or not, but I am sure they would enlighten uncle and nephew if they did.)

FWIW, I have done some firing with the M14 and consider it about useless on full auto. The last time I said that, someone told me that he had one and shot six inch groups at 100 yards on full auto, off hand. I suspect it was his mouth, not an M14, that he had on full auto.

Jim

David Hineline · January 1, 2012, 10:55 AM

The M14 is one of the harder recoiling 308 rifles. I like the FN FAL or Valmet 308 better, but the M14 I like better than the HK G3 type rifles.

That said if an M14 is what you want, you found 3 you only need to buy 1, so there seem to be plenty. Value of both the M14 and M16 are going to go up unless the 1986 ban goes away.

If you learn to handle a machinegun on full auto, then they are not so bad, if you don't learn then even a 9mm gun will tip you over.

http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/beretta.wmv

AirForceShooter · January 1, 2012, 11:42 AM

On full auto perfectly useless.

SKY gun

AFS

SR420 · January 1, 2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

AirForceShooter On full auto perfectly useless.

Not necessarily full auto M14 - controlled fire

medalguy · January 2, 2012, 01:28 AM

They CAN be controlled on FA but it's pretty difficult, certainly not what I consider fun shooting. Something along the line of a BAR is a lot more fun to shoot. My M14 is a welded Winchester receiver and I rarely shoot it FA. With the E2 stock and bipod it's OK but I have a lot of other guns I prefer to shoot.

For about the same money you can get a good 1919A4, a tripod, and a bunch of ammo. Now that's easily controlled shooting.

TNT · January 2, 2012, 08:03 AM

Firing a M14 on FA can it be done yes is it practical at this point its a matter of perspective. My opinion for what its worth...........no. There are other weapons that offer better control ability than the M14. It's great in semi but in FA its muzzle climb is like that of a FA AK-47 the only round that will hit its target in FA is the first one.

mkk41 · January 2, 2012, 09:47 AM

Back around 1991 , I foolishly passed on an '68-amnesty registered Winchester M-14 in excellent condition for $5000.

ofitg · January 2, 2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

With the E2 stock and bipod it's OK but I have a lot of other guns I prefer to shoot.

Bingo! Controllable, but definitely not fun to shoot. Lying prone, with that straight-line stock, your shoulder really takes a beating.

Archer 9505 · January 2, 2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Not necessarily full auto M14 - controlled fire

SR420

I'd like to get that guy to coach me on his technique. I shot the M-14 on full auto a few times while in the service. I could never manage to shoot it in anyway resembling a useful controllable manner.

SR420 · January 2, 2012, 01:15 PM

Archer, that is my good friend Dave Armstrong at NSWC CRANE... the 'trick' is to
install a Smith Enterprise, Inc. Good Iron M14 US Coast Guard / Navy Muzzle Brake.

**44 AMP** · January 2, 2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Why is this? Are there less FA M14's out there than other FA guns?
I have never shot one, so for those of you that have shot a FA M14, is this thing a bear to handle on FA? Is it pretty much useless on FA? Or not?

As stated, the reason there are so few for sale is that the M14 was never officially released for sale to the public. SO, very, very few guns got to the public legally, and only legal guns could be registered....And since 86, NO FA guns have been allowed to be registered, so.....there it is.

I have shot the full auto M14, in the Army, and my first experience with it was an eye opener! You can, with a bit of practice snap off a two round burst. And the rounds will be "fairly" close together (both on the silhouette, if you aimed at the middle

). My first time, after shooting the rifle semi auto a bit,I decided to shoot a 3 rnd burst. SURPRISE!!! Recoil is cumulative! You don't get time to recover! The rifle cycles FAST.

My "3 rnd burst" was 6 rnds, and moved me from a kneeling to a sitting position!

After that, I had respect for the rifle and was able to learn to do two rnd bursts and keep them on target....mostly.

The problem with the full auto M14 is that the rifle is just too light for the cyclic rate. And the Army never bothered to develope the cure for this, dropping the M14 for the M16 instead.

A really good muzzle brake will let it be better controlled, but its still too fast for best shooting. I heard some folks came up with a mod to the gas system, reducing the cyclic rate and got a very controlable full auto out of it, but in stock GI trim, its a real bear.

kraigwy · January 2, 2012, 02:44 PM

When I was running the AKNG MTU, I ordered 4 each M14s for the states each Battalion and Separate Companies with the ideal of giving the units a service grade M14, allowing them something to practice with so the could compete for positions on the State Rifle Team.

Some of the M14s were set up with the selector switch and would fire FA.

We took them out to play with before we converted them to semi only.

What we found out, you can put more hits on target faster, and more accurately, with a semi then you could with a full auto M14.

They are fun to play with, but not very practical.

As a side note, we did the same thing with M16a1s firing semi and full auto. Same results, using a E-silhouette target at 100 yards, you can put more hits on target faster shooting semi.

Skans · January 2, 2012, 03:42 PM

You can find full auto BM-59's which are probably more like Garands, but not too different than M14's.

David Hineline · January 3, 2012, 03:33 AM

Taking a machinegun out for a test drive does not make a person a machinegunner.

There are pilots who fly WWII fighter aircraft but that does not make you a WWII Fighter pilot.

Someone who knows how to run a machinegun vs someone trying one out are two different things.

Skans · January 3, 2012, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Someone who knows how to run a machinegun vs someone trying one out are two different things.

I don't get it. So, if I know how to run a machinegun, I'm a machinegunner? I have an AC556. It's a machinegun (BATFE says it is anyway). I load and aim it just as I would any other rifle. The only difference is if I keep the trigger pressed down, it automatically feeds and fires. Not too much to it.

David Hineline · January 3, 2012, 09:07 AM

Ok my response was to those who try it once and say that having a machinegun is totally pointless.

It is not pointless if you take the time to become proficient with it.

Skans · January 3, 2012, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Ok my response was to those who try it once and say that having a machinegun is totally pointless.

It is not pointless if you take the time to become proficient with it.

Yes, I totally agree with that! I'm quite good with my little AC556. I rarely use the 3-round burst, because I can control it to 3-4 rounds without it and keep it on target. But, its nice to know that it's there if I want it.

James K · January 3, 2012, 11:14 PM

Maybe the M14 can be controlled in off-hand full auto fire, and maybe I am a wimp and not a TRUE machinegunner, but I can't do it. Congratulations to those who can shoot those six-inch 100 yard groups in FA, off hand!

Jim

RJay · January 4, 2012, 12:14 AM

Know for a fact, an M14 on full auto is very difficult to control, takes a lot of training. first two rounds on target, the rest, shooting at the moon.

gyvel · January 12, 2012, 11:16 PM

Quote:

The problem with the full auto M14 is that the rifle is just too light for the cyclic rate. And the Army never bothered to develope the cure for this, dropping the M14 for the M16 instead.

Didn't the Army develop the M-15 to counter that? Or did it never get past the experimental stages?

gyvel · January 12, 2012, 11:19 PM

Quote:

You can find full auto BM-59's which are probably more like Garands, but not too different than M14's.

The Beretta BM-59 is an excellent weapon, but a bear to find magazines for.

gyvel · January 12, 2012, 11:26 PM

I have never shot an M-14, but I do own an L1A1 that snuck into the U.S. and into the registry. At our semi-annual machine gun shoots I can generally keep 4 or 5 shot bursts in about a 4 foot circle which (to my way of thinking) is more than adequate for its intended purpose.

medalguy · January 13, 2012, 07:23 PM

I may have put more than 10K rounds through my M14 since 1968 but I still can't control it on FA very well. Yes I can recover after 2-3 rounds and bring it back near the target at 100 yards, but I agree, careful semi fire will probably allow me to put more rounds in a target.

But FA is still fun as Hell.

phagar · January 19, 2012, 12:59 AM

I do have all the bells and whistles for the M-14 E-2 such as the bipod, stock etc. but equipped correctly it is more than adequate for the roll it was meant for .

December 31, 2011, 11:12 PM	#1
Hunterpeaks Member Join Date: June 16, 2011 Posts: 20	M1A- M14 Questions I have been canvassing all the NFA websites etc looking for a FA M14 to purchase. There aren't many out there. Why is this? Are there less FA M14's out there than other FA guns? I have never shot one, so for those of you that have shot a FA M14, is this thing a bear to handle on FA? Is it pretty much useless on FA? Or not? I can't believe that searching for a couple of weeks for one has only turned up 3 for sale, but if that's truly the case, then seems to me that this would be a good investment for the future. Thoughts on investment of an M14 Vs. an M16? Thanks much Hunter

January 1, 2012, 11:42 AM	#4
AirForceShooter Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida Posts: 1,296	On full auto perfectly useless. SKY gun AFS __________________ 'Qui tacet consentit': To remain silent is to consent.

January 2, 2012, 08:03 AM	#7
TNT Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: Back in glorious Nebraska Posts: 606	Firing a M14 on FA can it be done yes is it practical at this point its a matter of perspective. My opinion for what its worth...........no. There are other weapons that offer better control ability than the M14. It's great in semi but in FA its muzzle climb is like that of a FA AK-47 the only round that will hit its target in FA is the first one. __________________ "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man and brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

January 2, 2012, 01:15 PM	#11
SR420 Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 3,336	Archer, that is my good friend Dave Armstrong at NSWC CRANE... the 'trick' is to install a Smith Enterprise, Inc. Good Iron M14 US Coast Guard / Navy Muzzle Brake. __________________ The History and Development of the M14 EBR

January 2, 2012, 02:44 PM	#13
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	When I was running the AKNG MTU, I ordered 4 each M14s for the states each Battalion and Separate Companies with the ideal of giving the units a service grade M14, allowing them something to practice with so the could compete for positions on the State Rifle Team. Some of the M14s were set up with the selector switch and would fire FA. We took them out to play with before we converted them to semi only. What we found out, you can put more hits on target faster, and more accurately, with a semi then you could with a full auto M14. They are fun to play with, but not very practical. As a side note, we did the same thing with M16a1s firing semi and full auto. Same results, using a E-silhouette target at 100 yards, you can put more hits on target faster shooting semi. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

December 31, 2011, 11:45 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The simple answer is that very few (if any) "real" M14's were ever released to the public and registered, and I have never seen one. The guns sold as "M14's" have not been ex-GI guns; they are either Springfield Armory police guns(the private company) or rebuilt M1A's or others that started out as semi-autos, and were remanufactured and registered prior to 1986. The Army did loan M14's to state rifle teams and to police departments, and some of those "leaked" but cannot be registered or legally owned because they are stolen property. (One braggart a couple of years ago posted that he had a TRW M14 his uncle, the police chief, had sold him and that made it legal. I don't know if BATFE picked up on that one or not, but I am sure they would enlighten uncle and nephew if they did.) FWIW, I have done some firing with the M14 and consider it about useless on full auto. The last time I said that, someone told me that he had one and shot six inch groups at 100 yards on full auto, off hand. I suspect it was his mouth, not an M14, that he had on full auto. Jim

January 1, 2012, 10:55 AM	#3
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	The M14 is one of the harder recoiling 308 rifles. I like the FN FAL or Valmet 308 better, but the M14 I like better than the HK G3 type rifles. That said if an M14 is what you want, you found 3 you only need to buy 1, so there seem to be plenty. Value of both the M14 and M16 are going to go up unless the 1986 ban goes away. If you learn to handle a machinegun on full auto, then they are not so bad, if you don't learn then even a 9mm gun will tip you over. http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/beretta.wmv

January 2, 2012, 01:28 AM	#6
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	They CAN be controlled on FA but it's pretty difficult, certainly not what I consider fun shooting. Something along the line of a BAR is a lot more fun to shoot. My M14 is a welded Winchester receiver and I rarely shoot it FA. With the E2 stock and bipod it's OK but I have a lot of other guns I prefer to shoot. For about the same money you can get a good 1919A4, a tripod, and a bunch of ammo. Now that's easily controlled shooting.

January 2, 2012, 09:47 AM	#8
mkk41 Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 283	Back around 1991 , I foolishly passed on an '68-amnesty registered Winchester M-14 in excellent condition for $5000.

January 2, 2012, 03:42 PM	#14
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	You can find full auto BM-59's which are probably more like Garands, but not too different than M14's.

January 3, 2012, 03:33 AM	#15
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Taking a machinegun out for a test drive does not make a person a machinegunner. There are pilots who fly WWII fighter aircraft but that does not make you a WWII Fighter pilot. Someone who knows how to run a machinegun vs someone trying one out are two different things.

January 3, 2012, 09:07 AM	#17
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Ok my response was to those who try it once and say that having a machinegun is totally pointless. It is not pointless if you take the time to become proficient with it.

January 3, 2012, 11:14 PM	#19
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Maybe the M14 can be controlled in off-hand full auto fire, and maybe I am a wimp and not a TRUE machinegunner, but I can't do it. Congratulations to those who can shoot those six-inch 100 yard groups in FA, off hand! Jim

January 4, 2012, 12:14 AM	#20
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Know for a fact, an M14 on full auto is very difficult to control, takes a lot of training. first two rounds on target, the rest, shooting at the moon. __________________ Ron James

January 12, 2012, 11:26 PM	#23
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	I have never shot an M-14, but I do own an L1A1 that snuck into the U.S. and into the registry. At our semi-annual machine gun shoots I can generally keep 4 or 5 shot bursts in about a 4 foot circle which (to my way of thinking) is more than adequate for its intended purpose.

January 13, 2012, 07:23 PM	#24
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	I may have put more than 10K rounds through my M14 since 1968 but I still can't control it on FA very well. Yes I can recover after 2-3 rounds and bring it back near the target at 100 yards, but I agree, careful semi fire will probably allow me to put more rounds in a target. But FA is still fun as Hell.

January 19, 2012, 12:59 AM	#25
phagar Member Join Date: November 20, 2009 Location: Northern Arizona Posts: 15	I do have all the bells and whistles for the M-14 E-2 such as the bipod, stock etc. but equipped correctly it is more than adequate for the roll it was meant for .

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