1911 extractor

[cptmclark]

Resurection of an old thread.

Checked the tension of the extractor on series 70 gold cup as instructed. Lots of slop holding the loaded cartridge against the breech. It will hold if I don't jiggle it, but it's real loose with plenty of space to spare between the rim, breech and extractor hook. Removing the extractor I see it slides out easily, with little tension on it. Could bend it to make that better. I don't know what the hook should look like but it has a polished radius on the lower corner. Seems I remember these corners being square, but not sure. The hook it'self is pretty thin, almost sharp, but not quite. Others I have have more metal there.

Question i guess is whether to replace or retension the extractor.

Thanks,

[RickB]

How tightly the extractor fits in the tunnel doesn't matter. I have a gun that requires prying-out the extractor, and another that I can easily remove with my fingers, yet both have about the same rim tension.
Are you having extraction issues, or just doing some preventive maintenance?
I've had good luck adjusting tension so that an empty case is held immobile, and a loaded round will droop, but not fall off the hook.
The amount of tension for proper function is not nearly the tightrope walk that some think. I had an extractor adjusted so there no tension at all, daylight between the rim and hook, then progressively added tension until there was so much the gun would no longer feed a round from the magazine, and until I reached that point, the gun ran perfectly for a few thousand rounds.

[cptmclark]

On another 1911, newer, with the rim held by the hook there is no daylight. The rim is against both breech and extractor hook. On this one there is mucho daylight both sides of the rim, except of course it droops down so has to touch somewhere.

[RickB]

If the gun is running right, you don't want to do much "improving", but I think carefully bending the extractor so that the rim is touching both the extractor and the opposite side of the slide, can't hurt.
For a gun that sees only "softball" type loads, you probably want less extractor tension than on a hardball gun, as the lower-rated recoil spring used for the former will have more trouble overcoming the resistance of the extractor when feeding rounds from the mag into the chamber.
All of my guns have full-power springs, so it's not much of a concern.

[g.willikers]

The info from Wilson is always useful
http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm
Pay particular attention to the figure 1a, to see how the extractor actually holds the rim of the case in place.
It's from side pressure.
Like the others said, if the gun is running ok leave it be.
Bending the extractor to add some tension is only needed if there are extractor tension induced jams.
Here's another version:
http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/0609.htm

[cptmclark]

Should have mentioned that the gun's been jamming occasionally, with the loaded round jaming the magazine and the slide. Nasty kind of jam because it cant be quickly cleared. Changing springs is a thought, both slide and magazine, but looked at the extracter too and it looked wimpy compared to others. Back in the day when I wanted to shoot plus P in the Gold Cup I called Colt and they said to run really heavy recoil spring in it. Made sense. Now not so sure. I thought back then that a "target" gun would be fragile. Don't know why. Anyhow, I also have questions about magazine springs. I've read that some metals in springs never lose their tension. Wilson guarantees theirs for life but don't know if that means you never need to change the spring. Yes I do leave it loaded.

Thanks.

[RickB]

If you have feeding problems - "the loaded round jamming the magazine and the slide" - then a heavier-than-normal recoil spring could certainly be causing it.
I don't think you can have a too-strong spring in a single stack 1911 magazine, so if your mag springs are old, replacing them is a good idea. Usually, the first sign of worn-out mag springs are last-round failures to feed, or "inertia feed", in which the top round is actually tossed out of the mag under recoil, rather than being fed by the slide's movement.
If you replace the recoil spring, mainspring, and mag springs, you can at least eliminate them as causing your issues.
Standard recoil spring rating for hardball loads is 16#, and Colt used to also supply Gold Cups with a 10# spring for target loads. The Elliason rear sight in the Gold Cup is a known weakness. I bought a Gold Cup "kit", complete gun sans frame, and both the elevation and windage adjustments broke on the rear sight within a few hundred rounds.
Standard mainspring is 23#.
I like Wolff's "extra power" magazine springs.

[4V50 Gary]

First of all, start with factory ammo and factory springs.

Does it feed with your magazines? If not, try Colt or USGI magazines. Does it feed with them? If yes, dump the original magazines.

Once you change a factor, whether it's ammo, the magazine, the extractor or the spring, issues may arise from any of them or a combination thereof. You have to do the rinse and repeat method of testing over.

I worked on one person's Izzy double stack 1911. It jammed on him a few times with factory 230 FMJ. I tried it and it didn't jam, but I found the slide went back sluggishly before it went forward and locked up. He had an extra heavy duty recoil spring in it and wanted to shoot 400 Corbon (different barrel). I told him to switch back to a factory spring if he wanted to shoot 45 ACP.

[cptmclark]

Thanks. The Eliason rear sight works great for me, except the pin that hold it on drifts out under recoil. Peening the ends seems to solve that. Maybe I've been lucky otherwise.