The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 28, 2011, 02:55 AM   #1
Stonefly_Soldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2011
Location: Colton, WA
Posts: 168
Llama M87 9mm or Ruger p90 .45

Okay so I'm new to the forums but I've been into firearms for a long time. I've been doing a lot of research and I have narrowed my choices down to 2 possible candidates. the llama m87 or the ruger p90. I shoot mostly targets but I would like a weapon I can carry around and afford to shoot when I want to. I plan to compete with the weapon at my local range in the amateur group. Here are the pros and cons I see with each pistol. Any advice would be phenomenal.

Llama m87 9mm para- $400 (well below book price approx $900 in current condition)

Pros-
rare
likely to hold value
affordable to shoot (9mm)
built to be a target pistol
95% condition
adjustable sights
uses beretta 92 magazines
high magazine cap
larger magazine release (i have small hands, medium size gloves fit nice and snug)
extremely intimidating

Cons-
More expensive initial investment
rare (hard to find parts)
less stopping power in a personal defense situation
haven't found any reviews

Ruger P90 .45acp $225 (also below book value)

Pros-
inexpensive initial investment
been told they are freakishly reliable
the one that i'm looking at has less than 50 rounds through it
extra stopping power with .45acp
good if i'm out in the sticks. get it covered in crap and it'll still fire
it'll fire any rounds I stick in it

Cons-
fixed sights (adjustable available for approx $80)
cost of ammunition
not sure about accuracy
heavy (not too big of an issue)
low magazine capacity
not crazy about the safety and decocker system being on the slide
not sure about it holding its value

That's what I've gathered after researching these firearms online and going and holding them at my local shop. I do own two other pistols and various rifles. I like my Walther SP-22 M2 but the trigger sucks and .22lr just isnt as fun and has little stopping power. My Smith and Wesson Model 12 is great but its just not a competition ready gun and I would prefer another automatic. (Unless I can find the right price on a 1970's Dan Wesson .357 magnum.)
Stonefly_Soldier is offline  
Old January 28, 2011, 07:36 AM   #2
LUPUS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2007
Posts: 463
Llama M87 was manufactured with some additional features by Beretta for Llama. It is an all steel, rarely found, competetion ready pistol manufactured up to the Beretta quality and standards. If I were in your shoes I would definitely pay the additional cost over the Ruger to get Llama...
LUPUS is offline  
Old January 28, 2011, 06:05 PM   #3
Stonefly_Soldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2011
Location: Colton, WA
Posts: 168
that's more what I'm leaning towards right now
Stonefly_Soldier is offline  
Old January 29, 2011, 12:42 AM   #4
Crosshair
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 16, 2004
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Posts: 5,333
Do what I do. Buy both and sell the one you don't like at the gunshow for a profit.
__________________
I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.
Crosshair is offline  
Old January 29, 2011, 11:44 AM   #5
gb6491
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 14, 2007
Location: Yuma county Arizona
Posts: 248
Quote:
Llama M87 was manufactured with some additional features by Beretta for Llama.
Do you have a reference for that? I ask becuase I was of the thought that LLAMA built the M87 as a sport version of their M82. I did a quick search on the web and only find that the M82/87 pistols operate in similar fashion to the Beretta 92 and will use 92 magazines. I could not find a credible reference (no insult intended towards your post) that said Beretta made the M87.
Regards,
Greg
gb6491 is offline  
Old January 29, 2011, 11:58 AM   #6
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 6,348
I had not heard of the 87, or that it was made by Beretta, but numerous gun sites and forums accept that such was the case. It is mentioned frequently.

The Fjestad Blue Book, which usually addresses that sort of detail, does not mention that it was built by Beretta.

Wikipedia, which has a pretty good article on Llama, mentions the 82 and 87, noting that the 87 got great press and was apparently a very good gun, but the new gun couldn't overcome Llama's declining reputation. (It sold for $1400 back then -- and in today's dollars that would be very expensive gun!) There is no mention of a collaboration with Beretta.

I think I'd spring for the 87, too, whether it was made by Beretta or not -- but NOT as an only gun. If you have need for parts, you could be in big trouble -- as they may simply not be available. Things like recoil springs may be a problem, too...

.
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old January 29, 2011, 02:48 PM   #7
Stonefly_Soldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2011
Location: Colton, WA
Posts: 168
Looks like you folks are finding the same info I've been looking through. I've yet to find someone who owns one or has shot one for some first hand details. Given, any rare gun you take a risk with parts and such. I've taken that into account.
Does anyone have some first hand info on the p90? I know its reliable but I haven't found much on accuracy. Whether it would work good as an amateur comp pistol if I add adjustable sights or not.
Stonefly_Soldier is offline  
Old January 29, 2011, 07:21 PM   #8
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 5,568
Quote:
Llama m87 9mm para- $400 (well below book price approx $900 in current condition)
That much lower -- I think I'd be looking into why that's the case. May be some flaw in this one.
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "
lee n. field is offline  
Old January 30, 2011, 12:00 AM   #9
Stonefly_Soldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2011
Location: Colton, WA
Posts: 168
The reason for the low price is its a pawn shop and they've had the thing for almost 10 years... The owner showed me in his computer system that they bought it in aug 2001 for 450... he just wants to get it of the shelf and out of the shop. Plus he owes me a favor. For any other customer they still have it listed at 700. Below book but still not moving off the shelf anytime soon because no one knows what it is.
Stonefly_Soldier is offline  
Old January 30, 2011, 11:31 AM   #10
ojibweindian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2000
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 1,198
I read, somewhere, that the P90 was one of the most accurate out-of-the-box DA/SA 45s (I think a few articles by Massad Ayoob). Also, a great advantage of the P90 is that it's still being made, so parts are easily available.
ojibweindian is offline  
Old January 30, 2011, 12:04 PM   #11
B.N.Real
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Posts: 4,092
Easy decision-Ruger.

It ever breaks-it won't -you can get it fixed.

Plus it's known quantity.

An accurate,reliable design.

plus $225 is a great price for this gun.
B.N.Real is offline  
Old January 30, 2011, 01:59 PM   #12
jmortimer
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2010
Location: South West Riverside County California
Posts: 2,763
Someone may like one gun or another over the Ruger P90 but it will not be more accurate or reliable. For the $$$ there is no better gun than the Ruger P90 assuming you like how it feels.
jmortimer is offline  
Old January 30, 2011, 02:03 PM   #13
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 6,348
Heck, get them both. I'm sure you can eventually sell the Ruger for more than you'll pay for it. You aren't likely to lose anything there.
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old January 30, 2011, 02:46 PM   #14
lee n. field
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 12, 2002
Location: The same state as Mordor.
Posts: 5,568
Quote:
plus $225 is a great price for this gun.
Two and a quarter for the P90. Dang! I missed that.

That is an excellent price on the Ruger. Get that.

If you're worried about the cost of ammo, sink the difference in price between this and the Llama into some basic reloading kit (lee classic turret and associated bits and pieces.) That will bring cost per round to below 9mm prices.
__________________
"As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "
lee n. field is offline  
Old January 31, 2011, 03:00 AM   #15
Stonefly_Soldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2011
Location: Colton, WA
Posts: 168
good point lee... i'm actaully really considering both now... probably the ruger first because i dont see the llama goin anywhere soon and starting to reload has been a plan for a while
Stonefly_Soldier is offline  
Old January 31, 2011, 03:49 AM   #16
bigghoss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2006
Location: Pueblo, Colorado
Posts: 2,664
if I found a ruger p90 for $225 I'd probably knock over old ladies to get to it. I have a p95 that I've shot the snot out of and never had any trouble.
__________________
I don't collect guns, I accumulate them.
bigghoss is offline  
Old January 31, 2011, 05:06 PM   #17
Stonefly_Soldier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2011
Location: Colton, WA
Posts: 168
Gotta love knowing the owners of pawn shops... I was pretty impressed by that Military surplus/ pawn shop when i was down there in Hermiston... best deal i've found on the 10/22 vleh was there... My guys in Moscow, ID keep me supplied.
Stonefly_Soldier is offline  
Old January 31, 2011, 05:35 PM   #18
thinktwice
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2007
Posts: 293
I don't know too much about the Lima, but I had a Ruger P-90 for years. The only reason I got rid of it, is because I was working a deal on a Kimber. As everyone here has stated they are out of the box reliable, accurate and built like a tank. Mine shot anything I put through it. It never malfunctioned, that I can remember. The only negative I can come up with is they really don't have any resale value, as with any Ruger pistol. I think the reason for that is because a new one is very reasonable price wise, compared to other pistol manufactures with a pistol the same category.
thinktwice is offline  
Old January 31, 2011, 05:38 PM   #19
bigghoss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2006
Location: Pueblo, Colorado
Posts: 2,664
Quote:
I was pretty impressed by that Military surplus/ pawn shop when i was down there in Hermiston
yeah I go in there all the time and those guys usually give me as good a deal as they can but this is a small town and they get shafted by their suppliers. I've gotten some OK deals on used stuff but even if I go to Pendleton I pay out the backside for new stuff.
__________________
I don't collect guns, I accumulate them.
bigghoss is offline  
Reply

Tags
llama , m-87 , p90 , ruger

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.10924 seconds with 8 queries