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Old December 19, 2010, 02:11 AM   #1
waltfraz
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Lee turret or dillon

i AM LOOKING AT BUYING A PRESS TO RELOAD 44 MAG,357,AND MYBE 9MM AND 380.i HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT LEE CLASSIC TURETT (NEW) AND DILLON 550 (USED) OR 450.tHE PRICE ON A LEE IS GOOD UNTIL YOU ADD ALL THE EXTRAS THEN IT RUNS ABOUT $225.00 A USED DILLON 550 CAN BE HAD FOR NOT MUCH MORE WITH ALL ACESSORIES.WHICH PRESS IS EASIER TO USE?WHICH ONE WOULD YOU BUY?
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Old December 19, 2010, 03:12 AM   #2
jmortimer
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I like the Lee Precision Classic Turret and most everyone likes Dillion but you can't make a direct comparison. If you shoot a lot you might be better off with a Dillion Progressive. I'll stick with my turret press. Read the owner reviews on Midway USA and Cabelas and you will see that the Classic Turret is worth every penny.
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Old December 19, 2010, 07:31 AM   #3
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Thanks for asking our advice.

Waltfraz is exactly right. Which will suit your needs depends greatly on how much you will reload, and how much at one sitting, and how often you will change calibers.

Switching calibers with the Lee Turret is dead simple. On the Dillon it is easy enough, but more involved.

I use the Lee Turret after using a pair of Lee Progressives and finding that my personal style and temperament is more suited to the one-operation-at-a-time method of the turret with the throughput method of operation allowed by the auto-indexing of the Lee.

The Dillon has multiple operations at a time, which I find distracting to monitor. But it does allow for more quantity.

I daresay you will find the price of the Lee with all the extras (new) will be a bit more than $225. For efficiency, I suggest one removable turret head for each die set. ($10 each, shop around.) A decent scale. Lee Safety Prime system and the Lee powder dispenser known as the Auto-Disk (or Pro Auto-disk) and sets of dies, of course. Use the Lee die sets because they have the ability to drop powder into the cartridge case right through the case-mouth belling die.

But I don't expect the used Dillon to be any less money, once you set it up to your liking. But I don't know what is already included in your purchase.

To answer your questions specifically: For me, the Lee Classic Turret is easier to use. For you, I have no idea which will be easier to use.

Which one I would buy is answered by noting which one I did buy. I plunked down about $400 to buy:

Classic Turret
Primer feed devices for both Large and Small primers
6 turrets
6 die sets
Two Pro Autodisk measures
Set of Lee Scoops
Basically, I completely repopulated my loading bench with all new gear except for a scale. And I could hardly be happier. I load a couple hundred rounds at a sitting and change calibers 2 or three times during a session.

What will make you happy may be another matter entirely. Choosing a man's tools is as difficult as choosing his spouse.

Good luck, always wear eye protection, especially when working with primers and don't pinch your fingers in your press.

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Old December 19, 2010, 09:41 AM   #4
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+1

Nothing much to add to that, other than to stay away from the Lee Safety Scale. Ohaus scales are the best beam scales and a rebranded by several manufacturers. I have the Dillon beam scale made by Ohaus, I like it, but it's no better than the Ohaus made RCBS 505 I had a few years ago.

I had a Dillon progressive and sold it. I found it was easier to monitor quality control loading one round at a time.

Assuming you want to put in 4 hours of work per month (one hour per week)...

If you're shooting less than 100 - 200 rounds per month, than a single stage will probably work. That's maybe one hour worth of work per week per month. A lot of rifle shooters fall into this category.

If you're shooting about 300 - 500 rounds per month, a turret is probably all you need. Again, loading about an hour per week per month. Pistol shooters that go to the range every few weeks and fire 2 to 4 boxes usually fall into this category.

If you're planning to shoot 500 or more rounds per month, then you'll need to seriously consider a progressive.

Things to keep in mind...

- Changing tool heads on a Dillon is fast, if the caliber you're changing to has the same sized primer. Changing the primer feed from large to small isn't something you'll want to do on a whim with the 550B.

- Dillon caliber conversions are $44 for the kit + $20 per tool head. Lee Turrets are $10 or less (used they're probably $5) shell holders are free with the dies. I reload 12 calibers, that's either $120 for turrets or $768 for tool heads and conversion kits.

- You'll probably want a micrometric charge bar for the Dillon. Otherwise, you'll be readjusting the powder measure every time or you'll be spending $74 each caliber for a different measure. That's an extra $50.

Last edited by testuser; December 19, 2010 at 09:55 AM.
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Old December 19, 2010, 09:58 AM   #5
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I just got into reloading about three years ago. The fellows on another board that I post on recommended the Lee Classic Turret to me. At the time I was wanting to load .38 Spl, 9mm, .40, and .44Mag. If you buy a turret ring w/dies for each caliber that you will load for, caliber changes only take a minute or so.

I have since added .223 Rem to my list of calibers, not to mention .357 Mag. I only load about a 1000 rounds of each caliber per year, so the turret is still the best way for me to go.

One day I may splurge, and buy a progressive, but I truly do not believe I "need" one.
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Old December 19, 2010, 11:00 AM   #6
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I can't justify switching to Dillion because the caliber changes are too expensive. I bought into the LEE stuff years ago and now have probably more tied up than I could have bought a Dillion for at that time but I can mix and match dies and powder measures as needed. I drop powder separately in rifle cases but found that using a 4 die turret with 2 pairs of seater and factory crimp dies works fast on charged 223 brass.
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Old December 19, 2010, 11:22 AM   #7
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I have been loading on a Lee classic turret for five years now. I have loaded on a friends Dillon 500. The 550 was a very nice press but for the practice, fun shoots and little bit of competition that I shoot the classic turret more than meets my needs. Another thing to think about is with all of the calibers you plan on loading for every time you add a caliber it will cost you three times more on the 550 than the classic turret. I don't know how long it takes to change calibers on the 550 but I can change calibers on the classic turret including going for small to large primer in around one minute. If I was going to load a lot of one caliber the Dillon would be the only choice for me. The way I load a few hundred for four different calibers then to me the classic turret has the advantage, I wouldn't want to change calibers and primer feed on the 550 that much.
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Old December 19, 2010, 11:24 AM   #8
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Reloading

Dillion Reloading Press
May cost a little more starting out, but over time you will save money on
aspirin and replacement parts.
Past Experience
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Old December 19, 2010, 12:07 PM   #9
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Walt,

Have you ever reloaded before? If not, the Dillon is a lot of stuff going on at once. Not saying it can't be done, but you've got more error opportunity with any progressive if you have no past experience. Personally, I prefer to teach people on a single stage press until they know all the operations. An inexpensive Lee Challenger Breechlock press or even their hand press will let you learn inexpensively. The dies can later be used in the Lee or Dillon presses.

No question the Dillon is faster. It produces one round with each cycle of the handle, while the Lee turret press requires four cycles to finish each round. I have a Dillon Square Deal, and when I was late for a match one time, I talked my wife into setting bullets on the left side while I set cases with my right hand and worked the handle with my left hand. We got 200 rounds knocked out in about 12 minutes, not counting filling primer pickup tubes, which I had done in advance. That's 1000 rounds an hour. On another occasion on a friends Dillon 1050, we double-teamed it and got 1800 rounds out in 45 minutes, again not counting pick-up tube filling (which he also has the automatic machine for). That's 2400 rounds and hour. So, a lot of speed potential is in the progressives, though you will go about half as fast doing all the operations by yourself. Still, it's a lot of ammo in a short time. If you do a lot of practical or plate or bowling pin practice, it's not an outrageous amount of shooting. The pros at the top of the IPSC circuit will run around 2000 rounds a week in practice.

The 450 is out of date in that it uses a manually operated powder dispenser. That adds another operation. It can be upgraded, though, to the 550.

Dillon changeovers are more expensive, but when you make ammo that fast and assuming you shoot that much, the cost is soon recovered in savings for all but 9 mm (because surplus rounds are so cheap for 9 mm), which takes longer.

The Dillon has a lifetime warranty, which I believe they will honor even for used ones.

As for rifle rounds, on either a self-indexing turret or on a progressive press, you run into the interruption of secondary operations. Stopping to trim cases or to clean lubricants off or to weigh powder or to double-check primer depth for gas guns with floating firing pins. Much bother. I use a Forster Co-ax press for those rounds as a rule. More recently, though, I've been playing with an RCBS X-die on the Dillon 550. It eliminates trimming and inside neck lubricating, so lube may be cleaned off after completing loading. You just have to be careful not to get lube in the primer pockets if you use a sprayer.
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Old December 19, 2010, 01:14 PM   #10
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I started with a Lee hand press then went to a Lee Turett. Thought about the Dillon 550b but could never justify the cost deference. I have about 8 different calibers I reload for. Someone has already mentioned the cost difference of changing calibers. If you prime on the press the Dillon will be faster but I prime off the press. I use the Lee disc powder drop (about $35) if I want to by another so I don't have to keep changing from pistol to rifle discs. The Dillon powder drop is about $100.

But if you can find a Dillon 550 used for $200 jump on it. Because all I have seen sell as much as new ones.
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Old December 19, 2010, 01:20 PM   #11
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I have the lee turret... love it... I have 14 or 15 discs... switching calibers takes two seconds.... The process is one step at a time..yes....but I would rather have that than a progressive....that way its easier to monitor each step for accuracy and to safeguard from errors. Some of the guns I have are big cartridges..and alot of powder... I like having all my digits/limbs.
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Old December 19, 2010, 02:45 PM   #12
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If you have to ask, then it must be a money issue, right? Hands down the Dillon is by far the better loader. I have owned four Lee presses but now only have one. My go to loader is a Dillon XL650 and I load less than 2000 rounds a year. EVERYONE told my not to get the 650 because it was to much loader for my volume(again a money issue I guess) but I purchased what I wanted. Couldn't be happier. So, if money isn't the issue go for the Dillon, you won't be dissappointed.
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Old December 20, 2010, 11:13 AM   #13
waltfraz
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Went and bought lee classic turret press,large and small primer feeder,pro auto disc powder measure,auto riser,spare 4 hole turret all for $153.00 bought from F&M Reloading
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Old December 20, 2010, 12:09 PM   #14
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Nice going. I just upgraded from a single stage press to the Classic Turret myself. I have loaded some .44 mag and some .45 Colt on it so far just to make sure I have the feel right. I love it. I'll get around to cranking out some .357 and .454 and .480 Ruger before long. I haven't tried it for any rifle cartridges yet so I can't comment on how I'll like it. For rifles, I only load 20 or so at a time, so the time savings might not be any big deal there. I might continue to use the single stage for that, since I weigh each and every rifle cartridge I load and I want the weight to be dead on, or at least to within 0.1 gr of the target.

Looks like you just need some dies and a scale and you'll be ready to roll, assuming you have the components like brass, powder, primers, bullets.
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Old December 20, 2010, 04:44 PM   #15
waltfraz
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At one time I had all the equipment you need 2 presses,scales dies case trimmer,tumbler ect,I never loaded a round and sold all the equipment due to fact my son was going to get involved but never did.So now I am starting all over again little at a time and hope to start loading when I get all the equipment I need.I am starting off a lot cheaper and a lot slower this time.
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Old December 20, 2010, 06:12 PM   #16
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Here's a recent thread on my decision to purchase a Lee Classic Turret press.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428050

I've only had it for 6 weeks or so but have loaded 3000+ rounds and it is one of the best reloading decisions I have ever made. I reload 5 different handgun cartridges - about 500 rounds of each a month, and it is more than fast enough for me. Two thumbs up!
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Old December 20, 2010, 06:20 PM   #17
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Personally, it sounds like the OP needs a single stage press like a Rockchucker where he can pay attention to each step by doing batches of one step at a time. This way he can look at 50 rounds in a block for over/under charges, etc........
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Old December 20, 2010, 06:23 PM   #18
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Sounds like a good price Walt. If you need any help with set up don't be afraid to ask. It is a easy press to set up and operate. The trickiest part to set up is the safety prime. Make sure it's lined up and if it drags a primer back out of the cup then just add a washer under the bracket that holds it. My safety prime has worked near flawless since a week after I set it up.
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Old December 20, 2010, 06:54 PM   #19
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Amen on making sure the safety prime is lined up right. I mean it has to be lined up absolutely perfectly in line with the little arm that has the cup on it. When I first set mine up, it looked pretty much lined up but I was having to fiddle around a bit to make the safety prime actually dispense the primer into the cup. I took another look and decided I might twist the safety prime a wee bit. I might have moved the bottom of the safety prime maybe 1/16" and it has worked perfectly ever since.

This thing loads cartridges so fast, I will have to buy more brass just to have something to do this winter. Maybe I'll have to recruit shooters to shoot it up faster so I can load more!
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Old December 20, 2010, 06:57 PM   #20
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Dillon has many people who bought into them and push them for everyone. Lee has many people who bought into them and push them for everyone.
A progressive can be used with just one case in it at a time as you get used to the operations going on.
The Lee turret is about as progressive as I feed comfortable with for bottleneck cartridges (I just can't automate the process since most operations are off the press anyway).
The Dillon 550 is, from what people say, a great press. However, I used one and felt restricted with only 4 stations. Then, I had to manually load cases into the shellplate using my right hand and reaching to the back of the press. I hear most people without a case feeder manually fill a case feeder tube, but that still means the every 25 or so cases I would have to stand up and reload the tube.
Finally, the 550 manually indexes. I would only have an auto-index. It is too easy, as you fill the case feeder tube or otherwise interrupt your loading process to forget to advance the press and you could end up with a double charge of powder.
Then, unless the 550 comes with everything in every caliber you want, you will spend a lot of money on caliber conversions kits, versus $10 for a turret toolhead.
I would get a Hornady L-N-L AP, but of the two you ask about, it really has to be your decision.
The good thing about the Dillon is that it sells for almost what you can buy a new one for, so it at least is an investment.
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Old December 20, 2010, 06:58 PM   #21
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If you are going to shoot enough pistol to get really proficient, a progressive is the way to go, and the Dillon 550 is a great progressive. It is worth the extra money just for the warranty and customer service. If something breaks they fix it, no questions asked.

You can use all standard dies with the 550, so there is no need to buy Dillon's higher priced dies. Changing calibers is not difficult and doesn't take that long. I have my pistol dies set up in interchangable die holders that take a minute to change. Powder bar takes a minute, and shell holder plate takes a minute. I can load 500, switch calibers, load 500 more and switch calibers again while you are loading 100 on a single stage.

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Old December 20, 2010, 07:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Personally, it sounds like the OP needs a single stage press like a Rockchucker where he can pay attention to each step by doing batches of one step at a time.
Nope, Just use the turret like a single stage. The big advantage to me is not having to readjust the dies when I change from one to the other. I usually de-prime and size like a single stage then hand prime and inspect. Then load and crimp like a turret.

I keep my rounds in plastic ammo boxes all sized, primed and just load what I am going to use that week/month. I can change loads without having to pull a lot of rounds. Then if I sell the gun I can safely sell the primed brass also not having to worry about someone else shooting my loads.
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Old December 20, 2010, 07:24 PM   #23
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Nope, Just use the turret like a single stage. The big advantage to me is not having to readjust the dies when I change from one to the other. I usually de-prime and size like a single stage then hand prime and inspect. Then load and crimp like a turret.
Except the ability to take the easy/faster way out too son still prevails......on MY RCBS Jr. press, which I have used for 30 years, I have NEVER had to readjust a die as it has locking rings. Once set, unscrew and repeat with no issues.

IMO, it is too easy to run a complete round each time, and not seeing a batch together, he might not realize an under or over charge; whereas 50 rounds in a block can be easily inspected...

JMO, YMMV
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Old December 20, 2010, 09:35 PM   #24
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Except the ability to take the easy/faster way out too son still prevails......on MY RCBS Jr. press, which I have used for 30 years, I have NEVER had to readjust a die as it has locking rings. Once set, unscrew and repeat with no issues.
True but the only problem with that for me is when you want you go faster you can't without buying another press.
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Old December 21, 2010, 09:03 PM   #25
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What works for you may be a disaster for another.
I NEVER used loading blocks. I always dropped a powder charge, inspected it, and seated the bullet.
The only time the I even consider a loading block is for rifle loads where I only need 20-50 at a time, but individual inspection still is fine.
If there is any thing funny about the measured charge, I check on a scale.
For someone else, the reloading block might be a good idea. For me, it would have simply been a way to create a larger mess.
Now, I have an RCBS Lock-Out die that does a great job of checking the powder. It will lock up just from changing the headstamp due to volume change. Granted, I haven't ever had an over-charge, but I also don't want to ever have one.
On a progressive, if I have a problem or something interrupts my work flow, I clear the shell plate, toss the powder back in the measure from any cases with powder, then work back into the work flow.
Some people use the lock ring to lock a position and some use a lock ring to eliminate any die "wiggle" from play in the threads. I really liked the Hornady bushings as I could lock the die to the bushings, and the bushings with the o-ring would take out any thread "slop" and stay in position until I twisted the bushing off. When I first upgraded to the L-N-L (from the prior Hornady AP), I thought the bushings were sort of a joke. After working with the press, I ordered 3 packs of 10 bushings.
It made it easy to switch dies during load development to see if any dies would improve the load. The ease of doing so showed me that the Redding Profile Crimp die was the best of the dies I have in .38 Special at minimizing group size. Likewise, I found that my Hornady New Dimension sizing dies sized down further on the case then any of my other sizing dies, even my 35 year old RCBS sizing die from before progressives were really available (Back then, the RCBS die set was 1) sizing die, 2) decapping and expander die, and 3) bullet seating die).
I, of course, know that my way of loading is the best way--just as most reloaders know that their way is the best.
Yet, none of us really think that we know it all.
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