Mossberg 500/590?

[mrlebowski79]

This may have been debated already on here, but I am new so I would like your opinion. I have decided on a Mossberg 500 or 590 for stricly HD. Which one would you go with? Does the 18.5 or 20 barrell make any kind of difference other than length and bulkiness? (shot pattern etc.) What about the ghost sights? Are they necessary for a HD shotgun? Also, what about the heat shield? Would it come in that handy or is just extra weight and aesthetic value for the uses I would have for it? And finally, 6, 8 or 9 rounds?

Thanks!!

[azsixshooter]

I would recommend you check out a good tactical/defense shotgun book. Something by Ayoob or Awerbuck. Also, look into taking some defensive shotgun classes.

http://www.amazon.com/Stressfire-II-.../dp/0936279117
http://www.paladin-press.com/authormo_0804.aspx

Personally, I keep my 500A persuader in the house. It's got an 18.5" barrel and with the pistol grip it's really handy and easy to stash when I'm not home. That's mainly why I keep the pistol grip on it, just easier to hide. I'd prefer to keep the full stock for defensive reasons, but I do practice with it wearing the pistol grip and I've gotten quite accurate at all distances I'd be looking at in a HD situation. I live in an apartment now and load mine with 4 buck.

I've also got an 870 with a 21" barrel. I chose that length as a compromise before I bought this Mossy. Does double duty as an HD tool and for hunting/sport shooting. Now that I have the Mossy, though, I'd like to get a 26" barrel for the Remington.

I'd forget about the heat shield. I've fired over 400 rounds of ammo through my 870 in an afternoon and I can't imagine why anyone would spend money on a heat shield except for aesthetic reasons. Maybe if you were shooting a SPAZ-12!

Magazine capacity? I wouldn't worry about going too big there. One of the defensive shotgun books I have says to get a higher cap mag but don't load it all the way. Reason being, that if you are loaded with buckshot and you need a slug, you can just stuff one in the mag and jack the pump. Last In, First Out, quick transition between all the different ammo you can get for the 12-gauge with that technique. I have a 6 round total capacity with another 6 in my side-saddle and that's more than enough for me. If you can't solve a close-range defensive problem with 6 rounds of 12-gauge buckshot, then you probably need a tank.

I don't have ghost ring sites, but I've sited with them before and they're really nice and fast for target acquisition. I think they are a worth-while upgrade. Side saddle is probably the cheapest upgrade that's nice to have, though some might say you don't need it. I think it's nice to have the extra ammo in case I'm in a situation where I'm in my boxers or sweats and have no pockets to carry extra shells in. It does add quite a bit of extra weight when full, but you can take it off easily if you don't like it.

Here's my final recommendation (basically what my Mossy, "HotLips", is to become someday):

Mossberg 500A, 18" Barrel (either pistol grip or stock, stock is probably better...maybe a folder like this:
http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/P...ps_Folder.html It will be available next month.

Ghost Ring Sites

Side Saddle

6 round capacity

Surefire light

Hi-Viz Magazine follower

Tactical Sling http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/P...ssionready.htm

Load with either 1 or 4 Buck; 00 if you are so inclined.

Don't forget that training is everything. Read the books, take the classes. Get out and shoot the hell out of your shotty. Pace off different distances in your home, write them down and shoot different makes and sizes (1, 4, 00 buck and maybe even magnum turkey loads) at all the various distances you think you might encounter. Back porch to edge of property, back corner of bedroom to bedroom door, bedroom door to end of hallway, kids room to end of hallway or front door, any other distances you can think of.

It's really important to try different size and make shells because shotty barrels all pattern so uniquely. Find the manufacturer/shot size shells that your mossy throws the best and stick with them. I think there are some low-recoil rounds out there too, if the 12-gauge kick bugs you at all. Be honest with yourself about that. You don't want to be flinching in a survival situation. Even drop down to a 20-gauge auto if you want to. No shame in that at all. I like 12-gauge because of the availability of specialty ammo in that gauge and the commonality of that gauge in a SHTF situation. But I'm thinking about getting a 20-Gauge semi for small game and bird hunting. I'd also be very confident with it in a SD situation.

Here's some great SD ammo info, http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

And a couple of ammo sales links:
http://ableammo.com/catalog/default....80_11576_11604
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_s...html/shot.html

And the fun stuff! (but stick to real ammo for serious HD)
http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/12gaugeammo.html

[cloudcroft]

mrlebowski79,

Since azsixshooter already gave very good advice, all I will say is get the Mossberg 590...but the A1 version.

-- John D.

[mrlebowski79]

Wow! Thanks for the great advice AZSIXSHOOTER!!

[azsixshooter]

Cloudcroft recommends the 590-A1, I can't say anything about that because I don't have one and have never used one. I just bought the 500A Persuader because that's what they had at the shop and it came with pistol grip and a full stock, pretty easily swappable. I just bought a long handled flat-head screwdriver at the hardware store.

I went from Rem 870 to Moss. 500 because I just love that ambidextrous thumb safety. But for 870 fans looking for an HD instrument of protection I'd recommend getting an over-sized safety button.

I took the time to write a thorough reply because I absolutely love the 12-Gauge pump shotgun. I'm from Michigan and have been hunting in below 50* weather, so I appreciate the reliability of the pump. I've seen videos of the FBI shotgun contests and it is amazing how fast those boys are with pumps.

That brings up the question of pump vs. semi. Semi's are faster to hit with and easier to shoot from a prone position or if you are hit yourself and only have one hand with which to operate your beloved scattergun with. Also, the Semi's are more forgiving to the nut behind the butt in terms of recoil.

That said, you can shoot more specialty ammo from a pump if you want to and you can still get really fast with them. They're totally reliable, even when dirty as hell or in frigid weather. Plus, if your door knob is jiggling or you hear an attempted window-jimmy that sound of a shotgun being shucked will generally make any half-way sane criminal turn tail.

I mentioned 20-Gauge, if you have a wife or old-enough-to-shoot children seriously consider the 20. It's plenty against an intruder and only something like 65% of the recoil. That's an important consideration if you are protecting a family. Especially in a Semi where recoil will even be further reduced. Hell, use those low-recoil loads and your 10-yr old daughter could probably shoot it all day long. I say, let the guy at the business-end of the barrel feel the pain.

No matter what shotgun you decide on, I think you are a very smart man. You've already shown that you have done enough research to have settled on the perfect tool for the job. Also, you've expressed the fact that you've looked around enough to have narrowed your choices down to what I consider to be an excellent brand. Further, you are intelligent enough to come to a wonderful forum and present a well-phrased question to a group of very knowledgeable and friendly people. You are really on the right track man and I'd almost (but not) feel sorry for any scumbag who tries to do harm to you or your family.

Whatever you go with, I'm sure you will be very happy. But I cannot stress enough the importance of patterning your barrel. Shoot some 00 buck, 4 buck, 1 buck...even turkey loads and birdshot if you think your distances will be close and you have any concerns about over-penetration (ie-live in a thin-walled apt or have children in a room nearby). Search forums and read books about different loads and settle on something that you feel confident with and that doesn't make you flinch when you shoot it. My shoulder still twitches at the mere thought of a 3" Magnum foster slug from a full-choked shotty.

Once you decide what load you want to keep, get that from a bunch of different manufacturers and go out and shoot patterns in cardboard. When you find one that spreads reeeeaaaallly nice out of your barrel then try it at all the different distances you think you might have to fire at. It's fun and very good tactical practice. If you can, shoot a lot of moving targets. Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays...Golf with a shotgun! Another tip I found in one of Don Paul's books is to put a pizza box in an old tire and have a friend roll it from up on a hill down across your range of fire. If you keep a pistol grip or folding stock, try shooting from the hip and blowing the pizza box out of the tire. Fun and somewhat practical, but all of your real defensive work should be done from a shouldered and well-aimed position.

I saw this Tomb-Raider movie where some BG's invaded Lara Croft's Mansion. She's the bad-ass star of the film, played by Angelina Jolie (as if y'all didn't already see it!) Anyway, the part I loved the best was when the butler heard the BG's come in and they show him pumping a short-barreled 12-Gauge while wearing body armor and putting on his slippers. Then he proceeds to "clear the property". Oh, man! That whole scene was just beautiful. A true testament to the power of a confident and controlled home-owner with a shotgun!

If I could only have one firearm it would be a 12-Gauge pump shotgun. I'd ask to be buried with one, but I'd hate to let a beautiful piece of engineering like that go to waste. I'd rather leave it to someone who would use it.

I'm excited for you bro! You're going to love it!

[Scorpion]

I own two Mossberg's. My primary defense unit is the 590 20" barrel with cylinder bore, 20" shell tube, w/ghost ring rear sight, uses 2 3/4 or 3" shells. Secondary is my Mossberg 835 Multi Mag w/24" ported barrel w/accu-mag choke. I can feed it 2 3/4", 3", and 3.5" shells. It's my bush gun but it can be my "hedge gun" in a jiffy.

[gtomax]

I'm in the same boat as Scorpion and it's a great boat to be in

590 all the way, I also recommend the A1 as it has a heavier barrel, metal trigger guard and safety.

Mine's got the ghost ring sights, heat shield, knoxx spec-ops stock (best investment), and Vang Comp compensation and back bore. That and >8 shot capacity will take care of whatever need you may have.

[azsixshooter]

Sorry, bad post.

[cdnbacon]

My two bits of advice is to go with whichever one you find more comfortable to shoulder and swing around. I have long ago settled for the 18.5 versus the 20 inch barrels on my mossbergs. I just find they swing and point better for me....they have a more lively and less muzzle heavy feel. I don't find giving up the extra couple of rounds of capacity a big deal. I actually carry the 500 more than the 18 inch 590A1; it may be slightly less durable with the plastic trigger housing and lighter weight barrel, but it still keeps on shooting! For a house gun, I doubt there is really any significant advantage of the 590A1 over the 500 or 590. I like the heat shield, which I have on one of my mossbergs, since I use that gun for practical shotgun competition and with prolonged and rapid fire practice sessions it prevents burns during reloading. Again, it is not a necessary addition for a house gun. I also don't favor ghost rings and find them distracting, but that just one man's opinion. Some folks really swear by them. Again, for home defense, I don't think it will be a big issue. A high visability bead (like tritium) and/or a weapon mounted light is a good idea. A standard stock is my favorite for all around use. I am my police Department's armorer for the mossberg shotguns and really like them, both the 590A1s and the 500s. I think you are on the right track....either one will serve you well.

[RevolverLover]

My 590A1 w/18.5" barrel hasn't failed me yet.

[cloudcroft]

gtomax,

Are you SURE you have the A1 version? The 590A1 won't accept a heat shield.


azsixshooter,

I have a "shorty" 500, too...it's my "car gun." The full-stocked 590A1 is my "house" gun.

-- John D.

[azsixshooter]

The NRA's American Rifleman ran an article on the history of the Mossberg combat shotguns. Pretty good article, I believe it was only a couple issues ago.

[gtomax]

No, personally I have the 590... not the A1. I dig the A1 though.

[Creature]

Just got a 590A1 with 20" barrel...and love it. I sleep with it. Under the bed that is.

[jhgreasemonkey]

Both would be a fine choice. But since you can choose I would pick the 590 with the good sights and 20" barrel. Its higher capacity might come in handy and the sights are nice.

[azsixshooter]

I'd argue that it's not so important what model you choose but what ammo you feed it with, how reliably the barrel patterns with that ammo and most of all how well and often you practice and train in home defense tactics and marksmanship. Here is some valuable info for the 12-Gauge home defense man:

(taken from http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237)

The single biggest mistake people make is to assume that the power of the shotgun is such that it negates having to select proper ammo. Through no experience or research they might come to the conclusion that birdshot is a perfectly acceptable choice for self defense? Why? Because the "feel" it's adequate for the most part.

Nothing is further from the truth. Once again, the shotgun ammunition needs to perform the same function as rifle and pistol ammo, which is to penetrate about 12" into ballistic gelatin. Fragmentation/expansion are usually not an issue in shotgun ammo, so that factor can be ignored for the most part.

For an excellent article which explains it better than I could, please read http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm on firearmstactical.com.

The summary from that article states:


Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 ¾-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 ¾-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

Second best choice is Winchester's 2 ¾-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.




I keep my HD scattergun loaded with 4 Buck, but I've shot the Federal Classic 1 Buck before and it patterns nicely. After reading the above, I might just switch my HD loading to the Federal 1 Buck.

[NCLivingBrit]

I've recently picked up a Mossberg 500A with the 18.5" barrel and full stock (I have the pistol grip, I just prefer the standard stock). I'd never handled one before I purchased it, but I found when I picked it up my thumb naturally sought out the safety. The only thing I've done to it is change the brass bead sight out a HiViz yellow fibre-optic sight to make it a little more visible and then stuff it full of 00 buck (slugs are on the hutch next to the shotgun if needed).

I've found it handy and comfortable enough that I want to get a second one to put the pistol grip on and use as a car gun. The price is right too, I paid $200 for mine A-NIB with the 18.5" and 28" barrels and a pistol grip.

[cloudcroft]

NCLivingBrit,

Ooops...now you've done it...you said the "P" word...Pistol grip.

You will now get flamed by most people here as they always do me when I admit to having a PG on my car gun (actually, ANY shotgun...and I have not one but TWO PGs on my shorty Mossberg 500 car gun). I'm completely insane...

-- John D.

[NCLivingBrit]

Well if I get flamed for owning the thing, that's an opinion I'll know to ignore from then on out. It came with the gun, I put it on, played with it then put the stock back on. For a gun that's going to live in a confined space like a truck toolbox, I can see it being viable.