I'm switching to double action

AL45 · August 8, 2016, 10:56 PM

I posted earlier that I was battling an occasional flinch when shooting handguns in single action mode. I am anticipating the shot and the inevitable recoil. At the last range session, I was shooting my Redhawk .45 Colt in single action mode at 25 yards and during most of the six shot groups, 3-4 shots would group at about 4-5 inches (which is good for me) but there would always be 2-3 shots down and left a considerable amount. Just for grins, I decided to shoot double action at the head of a silhouette target. 5 shots hit the head with 1 shot just missing. I then tried single action again and 3 shots hit the head and the others were again low and or left. Could it be that my focus on the long pull of the double action trigger some how takes my mind off of the recoil? Or do I just need a good psychiatrist?

driz · August 9, 2016, 07:33 AM

That's funny, most folks are exactly the opposite in my experience but people are different in all sorts of ways. This is just a thought and nothing more but have you tried reduced loads or a lighter caliber revolver? Possibly a lighter grain bullet as well.
I have noticed many shooters shoot a 38 Special round well and when they load up with 357 they immediately shoot pretty poorly.

Ahhhh, that anticipation does it every time.
Anyways try the light loads with light bullet and see if it helps you. Also you might have a shooting buddy random load your cylinder with a dummy or empty case. It will definitely show up those flinches if you are doing it. You could even have him randomly load the heavy rounds here and there . You will eventually get used to the heavy stuff.
Remember above all, if somebody who is a long time range instructor tells you to do something else by all means DO THAT. This is just how I handle things like this so I might just be fulla bulla advising for someone else.

g.willikers · August 9, 2016, 07:50 AM

There's a lot involved with shooting handguns that's nearly impossible to address long distance.
Since you're still having difficulties, about the only way to figure out the problem is to have someone knowledgeable actually see what you are doing.
Otherwise it's most likely that you will continue to chase your tail about it.
It's rarely the equipment causing it, just how it being used - or not.

NoSecondBest · August 9, 2016, 08:10 AM

g.willikers gave you some good advice. Here's my advice: if you're having a flinching problem (about 90% of casual/not-frequent shooters do), you're not going to hide the root cause by shooting double action. It will effect your shooting in any mode. Whether or not you can detect it is another story. I shot major competition for years and did very well at it. I can tell you for a fact that double action, precision shooting, is a rare commodity. If I were you I'd get back to basics and find out why you're flinching and learn how to correct it. My experience has shown me that it's usually caused by noise, not recoil, and the best cure is WAY better hearing protection and a LOT more practice. There are so many shooters who say recoil doesn't bother them not even realizing that it does. Recognition and admission are the first steps in getting it corrected. Good luck.

SmokinTom · August 9, 2016, 05:26 PM

I have always shot my DA revolvers in DA.

AL45 · August 9, 2016, 08:26 PM

When I focus on the front sight and squeezing the trigger, I do fine. When I get lazy, my brain takes over and tells my wrist to flinch downward to try to offset the upward recoil. It's a muscle memory that needs to be forgotten.

BigBill · August 18, 2016, 02:21 PM

Flinching? I found out my problem was I don't shoot enough.

reddog81 · August 18, 2016, 02:43 PM

I'm the same way. I usually shoot DA anymore and at long ranges I typically do noticeably better. It's slightly more difficult to time exactly when the hammer is going to fall in DA mode and i'm much less likely to flinch. If I find myself flinching I just keep dryfiring until the flinching has stopped. I routinely load 5 rounds into my revolver with one empty spot(or an already shot case) and turn the cylinder a bit so the empty is in a random spot, close it up and start shooting. Having an dead round every cylinder full for a while lets you see your reaction.

tallball · August 18, 2016, 03:00 PM

Reddog gave very good advice. That will show you where your problem is.

Guv · August 19, 2016, 05:32 AM

What type of ammo and hearing protection are you using? I would stick with standard power loads (if you aren't) and proper fitting ear protection. Shooting a double action well as a double action is good though, flinching can be a real bear to overcome. Cowboy loads should be on the lighter side, then work your way up.

Radny97 · August 19, 2016, 09:25 AM

When I was first getting into shooting revolvers I had a very similar experience. And doing a lot of DA shooting DID help get rid of my flinch. My one caution is to NOT stage the trigger for any reason. The flinch can come back if you do that, plus IMHO staging a trigger on a revolver has no practical purpose. If you aren't shooting under time pressure (6 shots in 3 seconds,etc.) and therefore have time to stage the trigger, you might as well just cock the hammer and shoot SA.

ammo.crafter · August 19, 2016, 09:35 AM

How is your shooting when you shoot a .22 DA?

Model12Win · August 19, 2016, 09:48 AM

Have you considered the cartridge (.45 Colt) to perhaps be to much for you to handle?

It's not a "turn in your man card" type thing, but you might be better off with a weaker caliber such as .38 Special or even .22 Long Rifle if you find yourself flinching in single action mode. I think this issue has more to do with your technique than DA vs SA.

Bottom line, you shouldn't be flinching in DA mode OR SA mode. By going pure DA, you're just covering the problem. Learn to shoot without flinching. A .45 Colt is no pop gun.

AL45 · August 19, 2016, 10:43 PM

I don't recall ever having a problem until I loaded some 300, 325 and 350 grain bullets that were traveling around 1100 fps. I don't flinch on every shot. It pops up every once in a while. But I don't want it at all. I've even caught myself on .22 LR revolvers. It's a mind thing that I've got to shake.

Guv · August 20, 2016, 06:28 AM

I think you just identified the reason for your flinch, 300-350gr bullets at 1100fps. Back off and start lighter, power wise.

V-fib · August 20, 2016, 01:56 PM

Yesterday while out shooting my .357 Taurus tracker with porting I decided to shoot with double hearing protection (plugs and muffs) My flinching in SA was near nonexistent with .357 and shooting .38spl was like shooting a .22lr. I think the anticipated "boom" with using muffs only may have contributed to my flinch. Next time out shooting I'm going to do a comparison.

v-fib

Bongo Boy · August 23, 2016, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Could it be that my focus on the long pull of the double action trigger some how takes my mind off of the recoil?

This is just my own opinion based on my own experience: the 'long pull of the double action' simply gives you a lot more time to anticipate the recoil. Don't plan on it helping in the least.

When I started shooting my first DAO auto pistol, it took me about 1,500 rds to shoot it like I meant it...and every time I take it to the range to 'freshen' the experience, it's like starting all over again.

Single action won't cure any bad behavior you might think is due to double action. Double action won't cure any bad behavior you might think is due to single action. MY opinion is that DAO requires much of the same skills and attention that shooting anything requires, but it accentuates the need for focus (and ignorance) of what's happening at the trigger. What I mean by 'ignorance' is 'ignore-ance'...your ability to ignore, isolate and be in another world different than the world the trigger finger is in. It's the ability to focus on the sight, and make s$%t happen regardless of what that trigger-pulling finger is up to.

Control the sights -> control the gun -> control the trigger kinda in that order.

I only have one revolver, it's DA, and I seldom if ever shoot it DA. Reason? It's not an sd gun...for me it's a target gun. To shoot it DA is pointless and probably a bit demonstrative...yeah I can do it...see me shoot DA. I have no reason to completely throw away the most amazing SA trigger I've ever owned (a SW 629-4).

thibaultfelix40 · August 28, 2016, 11:40 PM

Years ago I enjured my right ring finger. It doesn't grip too well. I find that shooting double action allows my index finger to augment my grip. I also sometimes use a two handed grip that allows me to use both index fingers to pull the trigger. This helps deal with stiff triggers and helps control lateral movement of trigger fingers.

Doc Holliday 1950 · August 30, 2016, 10:46 PM

I never understood why someone would want SA vs. DA. DA for me is just the only way to go. Sometimes you just don't have that extra 1/2 second or so to cock the hammer and shoot especially with game. I'm not a hunter. Geting back to flinching. The guys have it right. Practice practice practice so after awhile you don't flinch. Consider what the downside flinching is. Lose of firing time and an ever greater chance your first shot ain't going to work. Are you wiiing to pass on that edge? Not me.

Pathfinder45 · August 30, 2016, 11:39 PM

If you load your 45 Colt ammo to launch a 250 grain bullet at 850 fps, about like it was a hundred years ago, you will probably find it most pleasant to shoot. In a typical single action revolver, I find that I can shoot unlimited amounts of that power-level. It seems to have the ideal amount of recoil for accuracy with quick follow-up shots and respectable power.

IAhunter · September 4, 2016, 05:19 PM

I find that I actually shoot smaller groups double action, even at 50 or longer yards. Many years of only double action shooting during LEO quals have ruined me shooting SA. Too used to that long, heavy trigger pull. I'm training myself to shoot SA at 100 yards for hunting.

Mike_Fontenot · September 5, 2016, 03:30 PM

Load all dummies except for one live round. Randomly rotate the cylinder after each "click". You'll learn MUCH more from the clicks than from the bangs. When you flinch on a click, it is SO obvious and SO embarrassing that eventually you'll get your flinch "at bay" (which is the most you can hope for). This works with any power-level ammo ... I do it with full-spec Underwood .357mag in my S&W686, because when I tried practicing with mild stuff, my carry rounds started to seem harsh, and I didn't want that.

And shoot SA ... that way, there's no excuse for the sights moving during the release.

marines6433 · September 5, 2016, 04:18 PM

I prefer a slightly heavy trigger pull on any handgun. I shoot better too. I took the S&W 642 out last Thursday morning, and at 7-10 yards, I can fairly quickly pound out fist size groups with regularity.

Kilibreaux · September 20, 2016, 05:03 AM

Sometimes the rolling take-up of a DA pull helps overcome the tendency to "flinch" by either pushing or pulling with a SA let-off! The continuous pressure of a DA pull can be adapted too.
I rarely shoot my S&W X-frame .460 and .500's by cocking and SA let off, instead I find it quite easy and more natural to pull through the DA .

driz · September 20, 2016, 06:57 AM

Yup, that ball and dummy with a spin of the cylinder will tell the tale every time. I don't know how some of you guys find the heavy triggers and long pull of double action shoots better though but as they say, "find what works for you and do that".
The big thing I liked about double actions was when I was on the other side of a car pulling some puke out while being across from another officer pointing a Glock in my direction never was appreciated by me

. Double that sentiment when it was someone who was excitable holding it......... When the agency issued Glocks I wasn't happy even though I had carried one for years on the job.
On the same thought I wouldn't want one of the tiny Glocks for a pocket carry gun. My Ruger LCP fills that role nicely with a loaded chamber and no worries whatsoever. I guess its like comparing a ball peen to a claw hammer. They will both do the same basic thing but each one is more specialized at certain tasks . At least a standard revolver gives you the best of both worlds at your choosing.

August 8, 2016, 10:56 PM	#1
AL45 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2012 Posts: 761	I'm switching to double action I posted earlier that I was battling an occasional flinch when shooting handguns in single action mode. I am anticipating the shot and the inevitable recoil. At the last range session, I was shooting my Redhawk .45 Colt in single action mode at 25 yards and during most of the six shot groups, 3-4 shots would group at about 4-5 inches (which is good for me) but there would always be 2-3 shots down and left a considerable amount. Just for grins, I decided to shoot double action at the head of a silhouette target. 5 shots hit the head with 1 shot just missing. I then tried single action again and 3 shots hit the head and the others were again low and or left. Could it be that my focus on the long pull of the double action trigger some how takes my mind off of the recoil? Or do I just need a good psychiatrist?

August 9, 2016, 07:50 AM	#3
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	There's a lot involved with shooting handguns that's nearly impossible to address long distance. Since you're still having difficulties, about the only way to figure out the problem is to have someone knowledgeable actually see what you are doing. Otherwise it's most likely that you will continue to chase your tail about it. It's rarely the equipment causing it, just how it being used - or not. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 19, 2016, 05:32 AM	#10
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	What type of ammo and hearing protection are you using? I would stick with standard power loads (if you aren't) and proper fitting ear protection. Shooting a double action well as a double action is good though, flinching can be a real bear to overcome. Cowboy loads should be on the lighter side, then work your way up. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

August 19, 2016, 09:35 AM	#12
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	45 Colt How is your shooting when you shoot a .22 DA? __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

August 20, 2016, 06:28 AM	#15
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I think you just identified the reason for your flinch, 300-350gr bullets at 1100fps. Back off and start lighter, power wise. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

August 9, 2016, 07:33 AM	#2
driz Member Join Date: January 25, 2016 Posts: 33	That's funny, most folks are exactly the opposite in my experience but people are different in all sorts of ways. This is just a thought and nothing more but have you tried reduced loads or a lighter caliber revolver? Possibly a lighter grain bullet as well. I have noticed many shooters shoot a 38 Special round well and when they load up with 357 they immediately shoot pretty poorly. Ahhhh, that anticipation does it every time. Anyways try the light loads with light bullet and see if it helps you. Also you might have a shooting buddy random load your cylinder with a dummy or empty case. It will definitely show up those flinches if you are doing it. You could even have him randomly load the heavy rounds here and there . You will eventually get used to the heavy stuff. Remember above all, if somebody who is a long time range instructor tells you to do something else by all means DO THAT. This is just how I handle things like this so I might just be fulla bulla advising for someone else.

August 9, 2016, 08:10 AM	#4
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	g.willikers gave you some good advice. Here's my advice: if you're having a flinching problem (about 90% of casual/not-frequent shooters do), you're not going to hide the root cause by shooting double action. It will effect your shooting in any mode. Whether or not you can detect it is another story. I shot major competition for years and did very well at it. I can tell you for a fact that double action, precision shooting, is a rare commodity. If I were you I'd get back to basics and find out why you're flinching and learn how to correct it. My experience has shown me that it's usually caused by noise, not recoil, and the best cure is WAY better hearing protection and a LOT more practice. There are so many shooters who say recoil doesn't bother them not even realizing that it does. Recognition and admission are the first steps in getting it corrected. Good luck.

August 9, 2016, 05:26 PM	#5
SmokinTom Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 479	I have always shot my DA revolvers in DA.

August 9, 2016, 08:26 PM	#6
AL45 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2012 Posts: 761	When I focus on the front sight and squeezing the trigger, I do fine. When I get lazy, my brain takes over and tells my wrist to flinch downward to try to offset the upward recoil. It's a muscle memory that needs to be forgotten.

August 18, 2016, 02:21 PM	#7
BigBill Member Join Date: May 21, 2006 Posts: 53	Flinching? I found out my problem was I don't shoot enough.

August 18, 2016, 02:43 PM	#8
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	I'm the same way. I usually shoot DA anymore and at long ranges I typically do noticeably better. It's slightly more difficult to time exactly when the hammer is going to fall in DA mode and i'm much less likely to flinch. If I find myself flinching I just keep dryfiring until the flinching has stopped. I routinely load 5 rounds into my revolver with one empty spot(or an already shot case) and turn the cylinder a bit so the empty is in a random spot, close it up and start shooting. Having an dead round every cylinder full for a while lets you see your reaction.

August 18, 2016, 03:00 PM	#9
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	Reddog gave very good advice. That will show you where your problem is.

August 19, 2016, 09:25 AM	#11
Radny97 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2015 Posts: 1,021	When I was first getting into shooting revolvers I had a very similar experience. And doing a lot of DA shooting DID help get rid of my flinch. My one caution is to NOT stage the trigger for any reason. The flinch can come back if you do that, plus IMHO staging a trigger on a revolver has no practical purpose. If you aren't shooting under time pressure (6 shots in 3 seconds,etc.) and therefore have time to stage the trigger, you might as well just cock the hammer and shoot SA.

August 19, 2016, 09:48 AM	#13
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Have you considered the cartridge (.45 Colt) to perhaps be to much for you to handle? It's not a "turn in your man card" type thing, but you might be better off with a weaker caliber such as .38 Special or even .22 Long Rifle if you find yourself flinching in single action mode. I think this issue has more to do with your technique than DA vs SA. Bottom line, you shouldn't be flinching in DA mode OR SA mode. By going pure DA, you're just covering the problem. Learn to shoot without flinching. A .45 Colt is no pop gun.

August 19, 2016, 10:43 PM	#14
AL45 Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2012 Posts: 761	I don't recall ever having a problem until I loaded some 300, 325 and 350 grain bullets that were traveling around 1100 fps. I don't flinch on every shot. It pops up every once in a while. But I don't want it at all. I've even caught myself on .22 LR revolvers. It's a mind thing that I've got to shake.

August 20, 2016, 01:56 PM	#16
V-fib Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 253	Yesterday while out shooting my .357 Taurus tracker with porting I decided to shoot with double hearing protection (plugs and muffs) My flinching in SA was near nonexistent with .357 and shooting .38spl was like shooting a .22lr. I think the anticipated "boom" with using muffs only may have contributed to my flinch. Next time out shooting I'm going to do a comparison. v-fib __________________ Livin in the woods...feelin mighty good.

August 28, 2016, 11:40 PM	#18
thibaultfelix40 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2011 Posts: 154	Years ago I enjured my right ring finger. It doesn't grip too well. I find that shooting double action allows my index finger to augment my grip. I also sometimes use a two handed grip that allows me to use both index fingers to pull the trigger. This helps deal with stiff triggers and helps control lateral movement of trigger fingers. __________________ olafhardt

August 30, 2016, 10:46 PM	#19
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	I never understood why someone would want SA vs. DA. DA for me is just the only way to go. Sometimes you just don't have that extra 1/2 second or so to cock the hammer and shoot especially with game. I'm not a hunter. Geting back to flinching. The guys have it right. Practice practice practice so after awhile you don't flinch. Consider what the downside flinching is. Lose of firing time and an ever greater chance your first shot ain't going to work. Are you wiiing to pass on that edge? Not me. __________________ Shoot well and be Accurate, Doc

August 30, 2016, 11:39 PM	#20
Pathfinder45 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Posts: 3,224	If you load your 45 Colt ammo to launch a 250 grain bullet at 850 fps, about like it was a hundred years ago, you will probably find it most pleasant to shoot. In a typical single action revolver, I find that I can shoot unlimited amounts of that power-level. It seems to have the ideal amount of recoil for accuracy with quick follow-up shots and respectable power.

September 4, 2016, 05:19 PM	#21
IAhunter Member Join Date: June 6, 2012 Location: Cochise County Arizona Posts: 31	I find that I actually shoot smaller groups double action, even at 50 or longer yards. Many years of only double action shooting during LEO quals have ruined me shooting SA. Too used to that long, heavy trigger pull. I'm training myself to shoot SA at 100 yards for hunting.

September 5, 2016, 03:30 PM	#22
Mike_Fontenot Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Posts: 568	Load all dummies except for one live round. Randomly rotate the cylinder after each "click". You'll learn MUCH more from the clicks than from the bangs. When you flinch on a click, it is SO obvious and SO embarrassing that eventually you'll get your flinch "at bay" (which is the most you can hope for). This works with any power-level ammo ... I do it with full-spec Underwood .357mag in my S&W686, because when I tried practicing with mild stuff, my carry rounds started to seem harsh, and I didn't want that. And shoot SA ... that way, there's no excuse for the sights moving during the release.

September 5, 2016, 04:18 PM	#23
marines6433 Member Join Date: August 14, 2016 Location: Indiana Posts: 57	I prefer a slightly heavy trigger pull on any handgun. I shoot better too. I took the S&W 642 out last Thursday morning, and at 7-10 yards, I can fairly quickly pound out fist size groups with regularity. __________________ Are we there yet?

September 20, 2016, 05:03 AM	#24
Kilibreaux Member Join Date: October 4, 2012 Posts: 57	Sometimes the rolling take-up of a DA pull helps overcome the tendency to "flinch" by either pushing or pulling with a SA let-off! The continuous pressure of a DA pull can be adapted too. I rarely shoot my S&W X-frame .460 and .500's by cocking and SA let off, instead I find it quite easy and more natural to pull through the DA .

September 20, 2016, 06:57 AM	#25
driz Member Join Date: January 25, 2016 Posts: 33	Yup, that ball and dummy with a spin of the cylinder will tell the tale every time. I don't know how some of you guys find the heavy triggers and long pull of double action shoots better though but as they say, "find what works for you and do that". The big thing I liked about double actions was when I was on the other side of a car pulling some puke out while being across from another officer pointing a Glock in my direction never was appreciated by me. Double that sentiment when it was someone who was excitable holding it......... When the agency issued Glocks I wasn't happy even though I had carried one for years on the job. On the same thought I wouldn't want one of the tiny Glocks for a pocket carry gun. My Ruger LCP fills that role nicely with a loaded chamber and no worries whatsoever. I guess its like comparing a ball peen to a claw hammer. They will both do the same basic thing but each one is more specialized at certain tasks . At least a standard revolver gives you the best of both worlds at your choosing.