April 25, 2000, 06:48 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 28, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 3,925
|
How can you tell the difference between the various models of the Krag? (1892 vs 1896 for example)
|
April 25, 2000, 08:48 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 19, 2000
Posts: 743
|
I believe the the models of 1896, 1898 and 1899 simply say this on the reciever, i.e. Model 1896, Model 1898, Model 1899.
The 1892's do not say Model. They just have a year date between 1892 and up to 1896 (?) on carbines: i.e. 1893 Springfield Armory Serial #. There are probably complications to this if you get into it deeply, but this is the general pattern. |
April 26, 2000, 05:49 AM | #3 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: January 8, 1999
Location: Brunswick,GA USA
Posts: 1,884
|
Hard Ball:
From the Book of Rifles KRAG-JORGENSEN Designer: Ole Krag Model: 1889 Infantry Rifle: Country of Origin: Norway Mfg: Gevaerfabriken Kjobenhavn & Kobenhavns Tojhus, Copenhagen 1890-1915 Haerens Tajhus Copenhagen 1915-1921 Quantity: 118,000 Cal: 8X58mm rimmed Length: 52.28 Wt: 9.5 lb Action: Turnbolt Mag: Hor. Hinged Bx Cap: 5rnd Bbl Length: 32.78 Bore Dia: . 315 Grooves: 6 RH polygonal Groove Dia: . 329 Twist: Right Rate of Twist: 11.8" M-Velocity: 600m/sec w/m89 ball ctg The Krag bolt action rifle has a distinctive case magazine in the receiver beneath the bolt feeding cartridges laterally. The Danish loading gate hinges forward; US and Norwegian patterns hinge down.. The comparatively weak one lug action, caused the rapid replacement of the US Krag Jorgensen by the .30 Springfield magazine rifle, which was a modified Mauser. Most of the Danish and Norwegian guns however lasted into the 1950's. Denmark 1887: Aware that their standard Remington rolling block infantry rifles were obsolete, the Danes looked for an alternative. Five hundred Lee-type forsogsrepeterbevar M/a repeating trials rifle, were issued in April but, though reports indicated great superiority over the Remingtons, the rifle commission was not convinced. 1889: Accepted in June the original rifle was sighed for the 8mm m/89 cartridge, with 250mtr standing block and leaf graduated to 1,800mtr. There were not safety features other than the half cock notch. 1890: The first series made guns were accepted on 19 Jan, with bulk deliveries starting in the summer. 1908: On 19 Sept. Denmark adopted the pointed bullet in 08mm with a muzzle velocity of 750m/sec and the sights were modified to give a max. range of 2,100mtr. Model: 1889 Calvary Carbine Other Names: Rytterkarabin Mfg: Kobenhavns Tojhus of Copenhagen Year of Mfg: 1912-1913 Quantity: 2,600 Caliber: 8X58mm rimmed Action: same as 1889 rifle Length: 1,100mm Weight: 4.04kg Barrel Length: 600mm Grooves: 6 RH polygonal Magazine: Internal pan 5 round M-Velocity: 620m/sec w/08 ball ctg 1912: The standard Danish cavalry carbine or Ryttergebar M/89 was a shortened version of the infantry rifle, which was adapted after experiments that had lasted for many years. Model: 1889 Engineer Carbine. Mfg:Haerens Tojhus of Copenhagen 1917-1918. Quantity: 4,000 Caliber: 8X58mm rimmed 1917: Approved as a rifle. Though resembling the contemporary cavalry carbine, it had barrel bands closer to the muzzle and accepted a bayonet. There was only a single production run, gun numbers being prefixed by "I". The earliest issues were made in May 1918. 1914: The rifle was re-classified as a carbine. Model: 1889/23 Cavalry Carbine Mfg: Haerens Rustkammer, Coenhagen. Mfg Year: 1923-26 Quantity: 4,600 Caliber: 8X58mm Rimmed Action: Same as 1889 Cavalry Carbine 1922: Experimental short Krag Jorgensens, made for border guards and customs service. 1923: Additional trials led to the approval of the M/89-23 rifles. Most were converted from old M/89-23 rifles. All exhibit Rasmussen polygonal rifling, abandoned in 1925. Model: 1898-24 Infantry Carbine Mfg: Same as 23 Mfg Year: 1932-40 Caliber: 8X58mm rimmed Action: Turn-bolt w/single lock lug Length: 1,105mm Weight: 3.96kg Magazine: Internal Pan 5 rounds M-Velocity: 620m/sec w/08 ball ctgs. 1923: First examples of this short rifle were converted from old infantry patterns. Back sights were replaced, but the barrel jacket and the original band arrangements were retained. Converted weapons were given an "F" prefix to their Sn's and can be distinguished b;y old marks on the receiver GEVAERFABRIKEN KJOBENHAVN 1893 M.89. 1925: Polygonal rifling was abandoned in favor of a more conventional four groove concentric. Model: 1898-24 Artillery Carbine Mfg: Rustkammer Copenhagen Year of Mfg. 1925-30 Quantity: 5,000 including conversions Caliber: 8X58mm rimmed NORWAY Model: 1894 Infantry Rifle Country of Origin: Norway Designer: Ole Krag Mfg: Steyr 1895-98 29,000guns FN 1895 Kongsberg 1896-1935, 125,000 Caliber: 6.5X55mm Rimless Action: Turnbolt Length: 1,260mm Weight: 4.05kg Barrel Length: 760mm Grooves: 4 LH concentric M-Velocity: 730m/sec From 1894 forward, Norway manufactured the Krag in caliber 6.5X55mm. Model: 1895 Cavalry Carbine Mfg: Kongsberg 1896-1912 Quantity: 5,000 Caliber: 6.5X55mm Rimless Length: 1,015mm Weight: 3.4kg Barrel Length: 520mm Grooves: 4 LH concentric M-Velocity: 640m/sec W/m23 ball Model: 1897 Mountain Artillery and Engineer Carbine Mfg: Kongsberg 1897-1911 Quantity: less than 2,000 Caliber: 6.5X55mm Model: 1904 Engineer Carbine Mfg: Kongsberg Vapenfabrik Year of Mfg: 1904-15 Quantity: 3,000 Aprox Action: same as 1894 Length: 520mm Weight: 3.81kg Magazine: Internal Pan 5 round Barrel Length: 520mm Grooves: 4 LH concentric M-velocity: 640m/sec w/M/1923 ball Model: 1907 Field Artillery Mfg: Same as 1904 Year of Mfg: 1907-15 Quantity: 2,000 Action: 1894 Length: " Barrel Length: " Grooves: " M-Velocity: " Introduced to replace the M/1895 cavalry casrbine in the field artillery. Identical to M1904 except for the position of the swivels. Model:1912 Short Rifle Quantity:30,120 Length:1,106mm Weight: 4.02kg Barrel Lenght: 610mm M-Velocity: 710m/sec w/M1923 ball Model: M1904 Engineer Carbine Mfg: Kongsberg Year of Mfg: 1904-15 Caliber: 6.5X55mm rimless Length: 1.015mm Weight: 3.8kg Barrel Length: 520mm Grooves: LH concentric M-Velocity: 640m/sec w/1923 ball Similar to the 1897. Major differences was in the stock and added barrel bands. Model: 1907 Field Artillery Carbine Mfg: Same as above Year of Mfg: 1907-15 Quantity: 2,000 Caliber: 6.5X55mm rimless All other specifications are the same as the 1904. Model: 1912 Mfg: Same as above Year of Mfg: 1912-35 Quantity: 30,120 Length: 1,106mm Weight: 4.02kg Barrel Length: 610mm Grooves: 4 LH Concentric M-Velocity: 710m/sec w/1923 ball UNITED STATES Model: 1892 Other Names: 30-40 Krag Mfg: National Armory Spngfld Mass Mfg Year: 1894-97 Quantity: 24,560 Caliber: 30-40 Action: Turn-Bolt Magazine: Internal Pan 5 rounds Length: 49.01" Weight: 9.38lb Barrel Length: 30.00" Grooves: 4 RH concentric M-Velocity: 2,000fps The caliber .45-70 single shot "trapdoor" Springfield rifles and carbines had served the US for quite some time from 1873, when it was adopted. In the 1880's, however, the army was discontented with the springfield "trapdoor" and felt that a smokeless pwder caratridge and a repeating rifle were needed. Most of the other world powers had already adopted these changes, including France (8mm 1886), Germany (8mm 1888), England (.303, 1888), and Belgium (7.65mm in 1889). A committee was organized to look into a rifle and a cartridge, to determine which would be satisfactory and be produced for the army. Sometime in about 1890 some 53 rifles were submitted for this testing. Among the rifles submitted were the Lee magazine rifle, Mauser (Belgian M1889), Swiss Rubin, French; Berth;ier, German Commission M1888 Manlicher, Savage and Krag-Jorgenson. The results of this testing accepted the Krag Jorgenson, with some modifications, being adopted in 1892, with a roy 1890: With the advances being made by Germany, in Europe, the US decided to hold a competition to find a suitable small-bore, magazine rifle. 1892: Trials with more than fifty guns were concluded in August. Submissions presented had been several Krag-Jorgensen rifles. Krag #1 8mm Danish M89 #2 .30 cal #3 .30 cal (greater head space) #4 .30 cal (dust cover o/bolt) #5 #4 (no dust cover) #6 .30 rimless The trials resolved in favor of Lee #3, Belgian type Mauser #5 and Krag #5. The Krag was preferred as the magazine could be topped-off when the bolt was shut on a loaded chamber. Adopted in Sept. of 1892, with production deferred while trials were being undertaken W/additional rifles. 1894: Assembled @ the Springfield Armory in January, with issue being delayed until October. 1897: This model of the 1892 were altered to the 1896 models after March and can be identified by filled rod channels in the fore-end. Model: 1896 Infantry Rifle Mfg: Springfield Armory Year of Mfg: 1896-89 Quantity: 62,000 Caliber: 30-40 rimmed Length: 49.10" Weight: 8.94lb Barrel Length: 30" Grooves: 4 RH concentric M-Velocity: 2,000fps w/1895 ball Model: 1896 Cavalry Carbine Mfg: Springfield Armory Year of Mfg: 1896-89 Quantity: 22,500 Caliber: 34-40 rimmed Length: 41.15" Weight: 7.75lb Barrel Length: 22" Groove: 4 RH concentric M-Velocity: 1,750fps w/1895 ball Model: 1898 Infantry Rifle Mfg: Sprinfield Armory Year of Mfg: 1898-1904 Quantity: 62,000 Caliber: 30-40 rimmed Length: 49.13" Weight: 9lb Barrel length: 30" Grooves: 4 RH concentric M-velocity: 2,200fps w/Hi-velocity ball Model: 1898 Cavalry Carbine Mfg: Springfield Armory Year of Mfg: 1898-89 Quantity: 5000 Length: 41.14" Weight: 7.80lb Caliber: 34-40 Barrel Length: 22" Grooves: 4 RH concentric M-Velocity: 1,970fps w/1898 ball Model: 1899 Cavalry Carbine Mfg: Springfield Armory Year of Mfg: 1899-1904 Quantity: 36,050 Weight: 7.87lb All other characteristics same as 1898 Model: Philippine Constabulary Carbine type short rifle Mfg: Springfield Armory Year of Mfg: 1906-10 Mfg: Rock Island Arsenal Year of Mfg: 1908-10 Mfg: Manila Ordnance Depot Year of Mfg: 1910-14 Caliber: 30-40 rimmed Action: As 1892 Length: 41.15" Weight: 8.03lb Barrel Length: 22" Grooves: 4 RH concentric M-Velocity: 1,750fps w/1892 ball 9,450 were converted in 1907-14 to provide native troops in the Philippines with rifles befitting their small stature. HJN [This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited April 26, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Harley Nolden (edited April 26, 2000).] |
April 26, 2000, 01:33 PM | #4 |
Member In Memoriam
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 24,383
|
Hi, guys,
Read Harley's posting for some great backgound and basic information. On details, Herodotus is basically correct, although the Model 1892 will have only the dates 1894 and 1895, since production did not start until 1894. The original Model 1892 has a cleaning rod that extends from the stock below the muzzle, but most were modified to Model 1896 configuration in the 1897-1900 time frame. The original Model 1892 also has a handguard that does not extend back over the receiver ring as do the later models. The Model 1896 is probably the most common rifle encountered. It can be recognized by either the 1896 date on the early ones or the Model 1896 marking. The next rifle is the Model 1898. It is recognized by the marking and by the absence of the bolt lug seat on the receiver. Carbines are more confusing. There was no Model 1892 carbine issued; there was a Model 1896 carbine, a Model 1898 carbine and a Model 1899 carbine. Rear sights are a whole area of study in themselves. Each model originally had its own type sight, but the Army kept changing and upgrading. Anyone contemplating purchase of a Krag carbine should be aware that far more were made outside Springfield Armory than inside. There were cases of rifles altered to carbines or short rifles by the Army (the so called NRA carbines and the Philippine Constabulary rifles) but many carbines and short rifles are fakes. It is easy to pay big bucks and later find that the "rare variation" is simply a cut up rifle of less value than if it had not been touched. If you are thinking of collecting Krags, you will find it interesting and rewarding, and some good pieces are still to be found at reasonable prices. But beware! There are many fakes and thrown together guns, with thrown together stories to go along. Buy books and learn before investing. The best are The Krag Rifle by William S. Brophy, and The Krag Rifle Story by Frank Mallory. Jim |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|