IDPA Communication

RickD · November 30, 1999, 05:36 PM

For many months my wife and I had been looking for a good holster for her Glock 23 for IDPA and basic carry use here in Arizona.

The typical holster allowed for by IDPA are designed for fat men, while my shapely wife actually has hips which are bigger than her waste (imagine). This causes standard midline holsters to follow her amble hips and make the grip of the gun dig into her ribs. When she draws her gun from such holsters, she must muzzle herself as she pulls the gun out.

My ex-roomie was in R&D for Galco here in Phoenix so we had access to oodles of holsters from many manufactures. The only one that worked well was the Blade-Tech "Offset Drop" holster which allows the gun to rap around her hip, not unlike, but not even close to as radical as a police duty holster. When I wear the holster, it sets the gun vertical on me (32 inch waist) and just slightly in on her, so it is acceptable.

We checked the list of "legal" holsters on the IDPA web site and found our soon-to-be-purchased holster was not on it. We then found that it was not on the banned list either. Looking at the IDPA rules, we went through the task of requesting that the holster be allowed.

We were turned down for largely spurious and specious reasons such as it would be an unfair advantage for male competitors because it would make the gun butt present at an outward cant. Of course, just about any holster on a fat guy cants out. This is my wife's normal carry holster (either open or concealed here in Arizona). She wanted to practice with what she uses...which is what we thought IDPA was all about.

We were denied.

So I began an e-mail campaign to gather support. Most were supportive. Some said I should just "play by the rules." But two women e-mailed me to say that they had received approval for their Blade-Tech O.D.s by none other than Ken Hackathorn. It appears that one hand does not know what the other is doing.

At any rate, it does not matter what some officials of IDPA says. All of the IDPA clubs which we frequent around here have any problem with my wife's holster. Screw those who do.

Rick

Ricky T · December 1, 1999, 09:19 AM

Rick,
I'm pretty sure that I've seen Joyce Fowler, an excellent shooter from West Virginia, wore an offset kydex holster at the 1999 Rangemaster Indoor IDPA Championship match in Memphis, and someone said that she wore the same holster at the National. So Ken Hackathorn himself must have approved the holster for the National. I'm all for the ladies to use the offset.

RickD · December 1, 1999, 11:05 AM

I think Joyce was one of the ones who e-mailed me on the topic. If I recall correctly, both women lived in the general area of Mr. Hackathorn.

Well, I am glad to see some sense in the IDPA. Last I checked the web site, the Blade-Tech "Offset-Drop" was not on the list.

The person at the IDPA website was so annoyed at my questions that he barred my e-mails to his address. That's when I began contacting other IDPA affiliated clubs which resulted in the Hackathorn nod.

Glad to hear the holster is working for Joyce.

Rick

------------------
"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788

Ricky T · December 1, 1999, 12:15 PM

Rick,
I'm sorry you were treated that way by whoever answered the email at the IDPA headquarter. I'm sure he was just following the rule book to the letter and since the drop loop holster wasn't listed, he denied your request. I think the board members are much nicer to deal with. Hope you and your wife have fun shooting IDPA, I sure am. I gave up the other "practical" shooting sport, and almost gave up shooting completely until IDPA came along.

RickD · December 1, 1999, 03:16 PM

Actually, this gent was responding to my request to follow the rules in place for adding equipment to the approved list. He told me after it was denied (by who knows) that the Blade-Tech O.D. would allow a competitive advantage and he was not about to change the rules for women and/or create two different groups of shooters.

Far too much to go into here. He was not helpful, ignorant, bureaucratic, an uninformed.

Rick

------------------
"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788

Joyce · December 2, 1999, 08:11 AM

Hi Rick and Ricky, Yes, I use an offset drop loop and it was absolutely approved by Mr. Hackathorn. I would be interested to know who at IDPA gave you such a hard time as I will probably be seeing Mr. Hackathorn in the very near future. I think that he should be aware of this. You may reply to me directly if you wish - [email protected]

And thanks for the compliments, I'm now blushing.

johnboy · December 2, 1999, 08:47 AM

Per the IDPA rule book "Holsters and ammunition carriers permitted for Defensive Pistol competition must be specifically designed and marketed for concealed carry use NOT for range or competition use and must be suitable for continuous all day concealed carry wear."

Per that statement RickD, the holster your wife uses would be legal. Whoever you talked to did not know what they were talking about.

Johnboy

RickD · December 2, 1999, 09:39 AM

I didn't retain the e-mails from the man responding to idpa e-mails. But HE knows who he is. I hope you talk to Ken about this anyway. This occured several months ago if you recall my e-mail campaign.

As to the IDPA rules, yes, my wife uses this holster as a carry holster, not as a range holster. But the gent answering IDPA e-mail said that it was turned down because it was too IPSC-ey. Was my request to add that holster even reviewed by the proper IDPA committee? If so, I would suspect there are records of it.

Oh well. Thanks for the support, and quit that dang blushing, for cryin' out loud!!

Rick

BillOH · December 3, 1999, 09:13 PM

Rick, My wife also uses the BladeTech drop loop holster. She was given the OK by Ken Hackathorn. I just think they don't want any men using it. Fist holsters also makes a comfortable ladies holster that Ken looked at and said was OK but it is not yet on the list of approved holsters. Hope you and your wife continue to enjoy IDPA. Bill

johnboy · December 4, 1999, 11:22 PM

Never mind.

[This message has been edited by johnboy (edited December 04, 1999).]

November 30, 1999, 05:36 PM	#1
RickD Junior member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,920	For many months my wife and I had been looking for a good holster for her Glock 23 for IDPA and basic carry use here in Arizona. The typical holster allowed for by IDPA are designed for fat men, while my shapely wife actually has hips which are bigger than her waste (imagine). This causes standard midline holsters to follow her amble hips and make the grip of the gun dig into her ribs. When she draws her gun from such holsters, she must muzzle herself as she pulls the gun out. My ex-roomie was in R&D for Galco here in Phoenix so we had access to oodles of holsters from many manufactures. The only one that worked well was the Blade-Tech "Offset Drop" holster which allows the gun to rap around her hip, not unlike, but not even close to as radical as a police duty holster. When I wear the holster, it sets the gun vertical on me (32 inch waist) and just slightly in on her, so it is acceptable. We checked the list of "legal" holsters on the IDPA web site and found our soon-to-be-purchased holster was not on it. We then found that it was not on the banned list either. Looking at the IDPA rules, we went through the task of requesting that the holster be allowed. We were turned down for largely spurious and specious reasons such as it would be an unfair advantage for male competitors because it would make the gun butt present at an outward cant. Of course, just about any holster on a fat guy cants out. This is my wife's normal carry holster (either open or concealed here in Arizona). She wanted to practice with what she uses...which is what we thought IDPA was all about. We were denied. So I began an e-mail campaign to gather support. Most were supportive. Some said I should just "play by the rules." But two women e-mailed me to say that they had received approval for their Blade-Tech O.D.s by none other than Ken Hackathorn. It appears that one hand does not know what the other is doing. At any rate, it does not matter what some officials of IDPA says. All of the IDPA clubs which we frequent around here have any problem with my wife's holster. Screw those who do. Rick

December 1, 1999, 09:19 AM	#2
Ricky T Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 1999 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 197	Rick, I'm pretty sure that I've seen Joyce Fowler, an excellent shooter from West Virginia, wore an offset kydex holster at the 1999 Rangemaster Indoor IDPA Championship match in Memphis, and someone said that she wore the same holster at the National. So Ken Hackathorn himself must have approved the holster for the National. I'm all for the ladies to use the offset.

December 1, 1999, 11:05 AM	#3
RickD Junior member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,920	I think Joyce was one of the ones who e-mailed me on the topic. If I recall correctly, both women lived in the general area of Mr. Hackathorn. Well, I am glad to see some sense in the IDPA. Last I checked the web site, the Blade-Tech "Offset-Drop" was not on the list. The person at the IDPA website was so annoyed at my questions that he barred my e-mails to his address. That's when I began contacting other IDPA affiliated clubs which resulted in the Hackathorn nod. Glad to hear the holster is working for Joyce. Rick ------------------ "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788

December 1, 1999, 12:15 PM	#4
Ricky T Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 1999 Location: ATL, GA Posts: 197	Rick, I'm sorry you were treated that way by whoever answered the email at the IDPA headquarter. I'm sure he was just following the rule book to the letter and since the drop loop holster wasn't listed, he denied your request. I think the board members are much nicer to deal with. Hope you and your wife have fun shooting IDPA, I sure am. I gave up the other "practical" shooting sport, and almost gave up shooting completely until IDPA came along.

December 1, 1999, 03:16 PM	#5
RickD Junior member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,920	Actually, this gent was responding to my request to follow the rules in place for adding equipment to the approved list. He told me after it was denied (by who knows) that the Blade-Tech O.D. would allow a competitive advantage and he was not about to change the rules for women and/or create two different groups of shooters. Far too much to go into here. He was not helpful, ignorant, bureaucratic, an uninformed. Rick ------------------ "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788

December 2, 1999, 08:11 AM	#6
Joyce Junior Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: Weirton, WV USA Posts: 8	Hi Rick and Ricky, Yes, I use an offset drop loop and it was absolutely approved by Mr. Hackathorn. I would be interested to know who at IDPA gave you such a hard time as I will probably be seeing Mr. Hackathorn in the very near future. I think that he should be aware of this. You may reply to me directly if you wish - [email protected] And thanks for the compliments, I'm now blushing.

December 2, 1999, 08:47 AM	#7
johnboy Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 204	Per the IDPA rule book "Holsters and ammunition carriers permitted for Defensive Pistol competition must be specifically designed and marketed for concealed carry use NOT for range or competition use and must be suitable for continuous all day concealed carry wear." Per that statement RickD, the holster your wife uses would be legal. Whoever you talked to did not know what they were talking about. Johnboy

December 2, 1999, 09:39 AM	#8
RickD Junior member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,920	I didn't retain the e-mails from the man responding to idpa e-mails. But HE knows who he is. I hope you talk to Ken about this anyway. This occured several months ago if you recall my e-mail campaign. As to the IDPA rules, yes, my wife uses this holster as a carry holster, not as a range holster. But the gent answering IDPA e-mail said that it was turned down because it was too IPSC-ey. Was my request to add that holster even reviewed by the proper IDPA committee? If so, I would suspect there are records of it. Oh well. Thanks for the support, and quit that dang blushing, for cryin' out loud!! Rick

December 3, 1999, 09:13 PM	#9
BillOH Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: OHIO Posts: 77	Rick, My wife also uses the BladeTech drop loop holster. She was given the OK by Ken Hackathorn. I just think they don't want any men using it. Fist holsters also makes a comfortable ladies holster that Ken looked at and said was OK but it is not yet on the list of approved holsters. Hope you and your wife continue to enjoy IDPA. Bill

December 4, 1999, 11:22 PM	#10
johnboy Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 204	Never mind. [This message has been edited by johnboy (edited December 04, 1999).]