accurate 223 rounds

CrustyFN · January 25, 2007, 08:32 PM

I'm going to buy an AR 15 soon and will be reloading 223. I will be using it mostly for target shooting. I was wondering what your favorite bullet and powder is for target 223 loads. Thanks in advance.
Rusty

viper1216 · January 25, 2007, 10:15 PM

I use H335 with a 55 grain bullet. I shoot it 200yrds and extremely accurate.

ohen cepel · January 25, 2007, 10:17 PM

Check your barrel twist, that will have a big impact on the weight of the bullets that your rifle will/may like.

Mine is 1in9 and really liked 69gr bullets. Didn't like the 55,72, or 75's so much. Shot them OK, but not nearly as tight at the 69's.

Buckythebrewer · January 25, 2007, 10:29 PM

mY 1-8 twist will shoot everything from 35gr vmax to 80 gr smk.Go with a faster twist if you are ever going to shoot beyond 300 yards.
If your barrel is smooth and you have the right chamber,it will tend to shoot everything well.My best is 4 out of 5 shots with 77gr smk under 3" at 600 yards.The normal is always under 1 M.O.A. at 600 yards using 77gr smk doing 5 shot groups.My rifle is very heavy(14.5 lbs) and only good at one thing,,,PRONE shooting on sandbags or bipod.I love it and it is a JOY to shoot.
It all depends on what you really want to do with the rifle.

CrustyFN · January 26, 2007, 06:50 AM

Sorry I left out a couple of things. I am looking at a RRA 16" Chrome Lined 1:9 twist with 2 stage match trigger. The matches they have at the club I belong to are 200 and 300 yard and rattle battle.
Rusty

200 yard
5 sight in rounds, not scored.
10 rounds prone, slow fire, scored.
10 rounds prone, in 60 seconds, scored.
10 rounds sitting or kneeling, in 60 seconds, scored.
10 off hand, in 60 seconds, scored

300 yard
5 sight in rounds, not scored.
10 rounds prone, slow fire, scored.
10 rounds prone, in 60 seconds, scored.
10 rounds sitting or kneeling, in 60 seconds, scored.

Rattle battle
You need about 150 rounds
You shoot as many hits as possible in one minute.
300 yard prone, 1 minute, scored.
200 yard, sitting or kneeling, 1 minute, scored.
100 yards, off hand, 1 minute, scored.
Targets are IDPA style silhouette

castnblast · January 26, 2007, 10:52 AM

I don't have a 223, but you need to be using a faster burning powder w/ that short barrel. I'd look at IMR or Hodgdon 4895, Benchmark, Varget, or the like. I have a short barrel on my 22-250, and I have better results w/ the faster powder, and the muzzle flash is significantly less.

Desert Heat · January 26, 2007, 11:08 AM

I like the 69 grn Black Hills Match Ammo. Seems to be dead one every time.

Buckythebrewer · January 26, 2007, 02:30 PM

I had a shorty 10.5-11" I cant remember?.BY far the best, cleanist ammo I fired was A2015br(xmr2015 I think its called now).It meters excellent in my Lee PPM and like I said burns very clean.It should shoot very well also(did for me).Very good powder and easy to work with.I would use a medium/small extruded powder because they meter so well.Stay away from stuff like IMR 3031,It is long extruded ,and it sucks to try and meter well IMO.I just tried 100 rnds again and I cannot for THE LIFE OF ME get it to meter accuractly.
On the other side ,I don't care for h335(ball/flake) because it is to small and a pain to keep from clinging to things,as well as leaks out of the measure easily.
IMR 3031 ,and h335 do shoot great but I just don't like dealing with them.
Im lazy guess

I am a small/medium extruded fan,and for longer range accuracy that is whats mostly used as well.
h4895 is my favorite but it burns dirty like h335.
A2015 br would be the best for you IMO. Very accurate and clean over many shots(ive rapid fired 300 rnds and had the chamber and barrel very clean while using this powder before).
Using small/medium extruded powder(like h4895,a2015br),My measure will be spot on within 1/10 gr accuracy every time.
imr3031 makes it spike up to 1gr give or take of difference from time to time.
Like I said imr3031 is great for accuracy but unless im using a dipper,I can't stand using long extruded powders or small ball/flake powders.

JMO

dustinlowery · January 27, 2007, 05:19 PM

Quick questions what have you guys found was a good load for a 16inch crome lined w/1:9 twist at 300-400m and if i load 77gr bullets or bigger into my .223 will they load into my STANAG magazines?

MrGee · January 28, 2007, 10:47 AM

C..FN maybe better off buying the cheapest Mil-rounds he can find for the rattle battle an just reload for the slow fire, at that many rounds per match you'll be busy half your life loading the empties, also be very careful with your reloads [if you do ] make sure you check every case that it has the proper amount of powder in it, rapid fire could getyou in big trouble, if a bullet gets stuck in the barrel from wrong powder charge followed by the next at the speed your pulling that trigger, also i don't know i must be from the old school but 150 rnds in 3 minutes [even 50 in 60 sec] in that rattle battle sounds like doom for the barrel, probably won't cool off for a few hours if it doesn't melt, maybe you'll need a second AR- for the rattle Battle

but it does sound like a blast for sure, "what is the barrel life at that pace" anyone.. ?

Buckythebrewer · January 28, 2007, 02:26 PM

The 16"(10.5-11" plus flash hider) I had was 1-9 twist.You won't get very good accuracy from a 77gr smk in a 1-9 twist barrel I don't believe(twist rates to slow).If you have a 1/8 twist barrel,the 77gr smk should go magazine fed while not being to far from the rifling.I just question why you would want the 77gr+ smk for a short barrel.Are you trying to shoot long range?If you are than O.K.,but for anything under 400 yards I don't think you will see any better results from using the longer/heavier 77gr+ bullets.I would use the 69gr smk,,That would be a perfect bullet(probably) for that 1-9 twist barrel at those ranges.
+1 to Mcgee,,I bet you would be better off using good quality factory ammo for safety anyways.
If you do the reloading thing(I would)Like mcgee said,Be very carefull with your pressures and loads ,as well as checking all your rounds for proper powder charges before you seat the bullets.I would also crimp them as well(even though I don't).
As far as the barrel under those conditions??I have personally loaded 10-30rnd mags(300rnds)And put them through my shorty DPMS upper as fast as I could pull the trigger and slap the mags in

.After so many rounds,THE BARREL STOPS(I said stops) SMOKING from being so HOT!!!I could not hold onto the handguards of the rifle it was so hot!.All the oil and everything was completely BURNED off from the barrel.
I would NOT dream of doing that with my 24" stainless upper I have now.NO WAY IN HE*L!!!.

I will say after that abuse,The barrel was very clean ,and I did not notice an accuracy loss.
IT CAN'T be GOOD THOUGH

Again I think Mcgee's advice is VERY GOOD advice.You want to spend more time shooting,,NOT reloading for that volume of ammo.To MUCH stuff to deal with,It will take away from your shooting IMO.
Maybe find some good accurate ,maybe cheap ammo to do the bulk of your shorter range shooting.Maybe consider trying the Blackhills 69gr smk type ammo for the longer ranges.Try a BOX,and if it shoots good,,,Order up the bullets and try and duplicate the blackhills ammo in reloading(if you have the time).
That is ALOT of ammo to burn through!
BTW ,that RRA sounds like the perfect rig for what your doing.

JUST my $.02

HiltonFarmer · January 28, 2007, 04:11 PM

Rusty

Will you be able to cook eggs on that barrel after all those shots in 60 seconds!? That's a lot of shooting. What type of a match is that?

HiltonFarmer

Edward429451 · January 28, 2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Quick questions what have you guys found was a good load for a 16inch crome lined w/1:9 twist at 300-400m and if i load 77gr bullets or bigger into my .223 will they load into my STANAG magazines?

77 gr bullets will fit mag length 2.260.

dustinlowery · January 28, 2007, 06:33 PM

I just bought some federal 69gr SMK's you reccomend them for shooting 300-400m in a 16inch barrel w/1:9 twist

CrustyFN · January 28, 2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Rusty

Will you be able to cook eggs on that barrel after all those shots in 60 seconds!? That's a lot of shooting. What type of a match is that?

Thats the rattle battle. I heard from one of the guys in the club that it has been changed from 60 seconds to 30 seconds and he said 20 rounds per leg should be plenty. I'm sure it was changed for good reason. I'm more interested in the 200 and 300 yard matches but the rattle battle does sound like fun.
Rusty

glockopop · January 28, 2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Will you be able to cook eggs on that barrel after all those shots in 60 seconds!? That's a lot of shooting. What type of a match is that?

Anybody seen "Miller's Crossing" where the guy has a raging gun battle with a Tommy gun and then lights his cigar on the barrel afterwards?

Lane · January 29, 2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

I just bought some federal 69gr SMK's

Does anybody know how to copy this load? powder, primers?

MrGee · January 29, 2007, 12:16 PM

at a guess ~ read the box .. what does SMK.. Sierra MAtch King ?, if so, look in the Sierra loading guide for a factory dup. , if its a Fed case it should be a fed primer ? maybe like a GM210M ~ powder ??? you could carefully pull a head off an weigh the powder [measure the lenght of thecase too] an match that to a 69gr bullet load.. just guessing on all that, .. maybe some others have more info to come..

Edward429451 · January 29, 2007, 12:29 PM

With the 69 gr SMK bullets in my 1-9" Bushy, My best loads so far have been with IMR-4064. All hand weighed though, friggen stick powder.

Buckythebrewer · January 29, 2007, 02:18 PM

Edward,,TRy medium/or small stick(extruded)

My a2015 br loads,as well as my h4895 loads are SPOT on using a LEE PPM and checked with scale(1st loads of 50,and then last loads of 50 checked as well)..I HATE LONG extruded powders.IMR 3031:barf: .Accurate yes,but a pain to meter

Edward429451 · January 29, 2007, 02:34 PM

Hey, thanks Bucky. I'll try that. So far I've tried H335, IMR4895(S), BLC-2(S), and RX15, and nothing has performed as well as 4064 with the 69's.

I could live with the 4064 if I had to, but it sure would be nice to not have to trickle charge them.

Buckythebrewer · January 29, 2007, 03:24 PM

With h4895 using 77gr smk,I am getting better than M.O.A. at 600 yards with Lc brass with no special prep using winchester primers metering with the $20 Lee PPM

.I keep the loads under Lee (never exceed loads) and they shoot better and better as the charge increases.I still try and keep them safe though and I back them off when I start losing case life.
H4895 is dirty like h335 But for your 69gr smk,,I bet you will like the accuracy and metering out of h4895,or varget(I think that is small/medium extruded as well and near the same burn rate as h4895) A2015br is excellent as well(I think its called A xmr2015 now).
It is so nice not having to use dippers ,or a scale to get accurate/FAST charges EVERY time

.

Lane · January 29, 2007, 03:27 PM

bucky is there a lot cleaner burning powder than h4895 that will still give good performance w/ 69grsmk?

Buckythebrewer · January 29, 2007, 03:49 PM

From my(limited) experience the best performing/clean powder is A2015BR(A xmr 2015).And that would be perfect for 69gr smk.
I have also read in the BOOK on ar15's Called "Black Magic",That the a 2015br worked very well for the author in many different loads for the ar15 for accuracy and reliability..
I don't know for sure if the powder changed at all when the name changed,I doubt it .It is one of the powders for that bullet weight in my Lee book..

MrGee · January 29, 2007, 03:54 PM

what are you fellas shooting, AR-'s, or bolt guns @ 600yrds, i have a older SP model AR- with a 1-7 on it an i've never been able to get under a MOA @100with anything over 55gr.bullet, 68 Horns an 69 Serra is like shoot'n a shotgun paper wise... never tried 77grainers are worth the effert ?

?

January 25, 2007, 08:32 PM	#1
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	accurate 223 rounds I'm going to buy an AR 15 soon and will be reloading 223. I will be using it mostly for target shooting. I was wondering what your favorite bullet and powder is for target 223 loads. Thanks in advance. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

January 25, 2007, 10:17 PM	#3
ohen cepel Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 1999 Location: Where they send me Posts: 1,013	Check your barrel twist, that will have a big impact on the weight of the bullets that your rifle will/may like. Mine is 1in9 and really liked 69gr bullets. Didn't like the 55,72, or 75's so much. Shot them OK, but not nearly as tight at the 69's. __________________ He who dares wins. NRA Life Benefactor Member

January 26, 2007, 06:50 AM	#5
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	Sorry I left out a couple of things. I am looking at a RRA 16" Chrome Lined 1:9 twist with 2 stage match trigger. The matches they have at the club I belong to are 200 and 300 yard and rattle battle. Rusty 200 yard 5 sight in rounds, not scored. 10 rounds prone, slow fire, scored. 10 rounds prone, in 60 seconds, scored. 10 rounds sitting or kneeling, in 60 seconds, scored. 10 off hand, in 60 seconds, scored 300 yard 5 sight in rounds, not scored. 10 rounds prone, slow fire, scored. 10 rounds prone, in 60 seconds, scored. 10 rounds sitting or kneeling, in 60 seconds, scored. Rattle battle You need about 150 rounds You shoot as many hits as possible in one minute. 300 yard prone, 1 minute, scored. 200 yard, sitting or kneeling, 1 minute, scored. 100 yards, off hand, 1 minute, scored. Targets are IDPA style silhouette __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

January 26, 2007, 10:52 AM	#6
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	I don't have a 223, but you need to be using a faster burning powder w/ that short barrel. I'd look at IMR or Hodgdon 4895, Benchmark, Varget, or the like. I have a short barrel on my 22-250, and I have better results w/ the faster powder, and the muzzle flash is significantly less. __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

January 26, 2007, 11:08 AM	#7
Desert Heat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 341	I like the 69 grn Black Hills Match Ammo. Seems to be dead one every time. __________________ Zombie Defense Squad

January 25, 2007, 10:15 PM	#2
viper1216 Member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Rhode ISland Posts: 73	I use H335 with a 55 grain bullet. I shoot it 200yrds and extremely accurate.

January 25, 2007, 10:29 PM	#4
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	mY 1-8 twist will shoot everything from 35gr vmax to 80 gr smk.Go with a faster twist if you are ever going to shoot beyond 300 yards. If your barrel is smooth and you have the right chamber,it will tend to shoot everything well.My best is 4 out of 5 shots with 77gr smk under 3" at 600 yards.The normal is always under 1 M.O.A. at 600 yards using 77gr smk doing 5 shot groups.My rifle is very heavy(14.5 lbs) and only good at one thing,,,PRONE shooting on sandbags or bipod.I love it and it is a JOY to shoot. It all depends on what you really want to do with the rifle.

January 26, 2007, 02:30 PM	#8
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	I had a shorty 10.5-11" I cant remember?.BY far the best, cleanist ammo I fired was A2015br(xmr2015 I think its called now).It meters excellent in my Lee PPM and like I said burns very clean.It should shoot very well also(did for me).Very good powder and easy to work with.I would use a medium/small extruded powder because they meter so well.Stay away from stuff like IMR 3031,It is long extruded ,and it sucks to try and meter well IMO.I just tried 100 rnds again and I cannot for THE LIFE OF ME get it to meter accuractly. On the other side ,I don't care for h335(ball/flake) because it is to small and a pain to keep from clinging to things,as well as leaks out of the measure easily. IMR 3031 ,and h335 do shoot great but I just don't like dealing with them. Im lazy guess I am a small/medium extruded fan,and for longer range accuracy that is whats mostly used as well. h4895 is my favorite but it burns dirty like h335. A2015 br would be the best for you IMO. Very accurate and clean over many shots(ive rapid fired 300 rnds and had the chamber and barrel very clean while using this powder before). Using small/medium extruded powder(like h4895,a2015br),My measure will be spot on within 1/10 gr accuracy every time. imr3031 makes it spike up to 1gr give or take of difference from time to time. Like I said imr3031 is great for accuracy but unless im using a dipper,I can't stand using long extruded powders or small ball/flake powders. JMO Last edited by Buckythebrewer; January 26, 2007 at 03:02 PM.

January 27, 2007, 05:19 PM	#9
dustinlowery Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2007 Location: ON Canada Posts: 127	Quick questions what have you guys found was a good load for a 16inch crome lined w/1:9 twist at 300-400m and if i load 77gr bullets or bigger into my .223 will they load into my STANAG magazines? __________________ Fight to live, Live to Fight If god didn't want us to kill why are our eyes on the front of our head Last edited by dustinlowery; January 28, 2007 at 01:12 PM.

January 28, 2007, 10:47 AM	#10
MrGee Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 260	C..FN maybe better off buying the cheapest Mil-rounds he can find for the rattle battle an just reload for the slow fire, at that many rounds per match you'll be busy half your life loading the empties, also be very careful with your reloads [if you do ] make sure you check every case that it has the proper amount of powder in it, rapid fire could getyou in big trouble, if a bullet gets stuck in the barrel from wrong powder charge followed by the next at the speed your pulling that trigger, also i don't know i must be from the old school but 150 rnds in 3 minutes [even 50 in 60 sec] in that rattle battle sounds like doom for the barrel, probably won't cool off for a few hours if it doesn't melt, maybe you'll need a second AR- for the rattle Battle but it does sound like a blast for sure, "what is the barrel life at that pace" anyone.. ?

January 28, 2007, 02:26 PM	#11
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	The 16"(10.5-11" plus flash hider) I had was 1-9 twist.You won't get very good accuracy from a 77gr smk in a 1-9 twist barrel I don't believe(twist rates to slow).If you have a 1/8 twist barrel,the 77gr smk should go magazine fed while not being to far from the rifling.I just question why you would want the 77gr+ smk for a short barrel.Are you trying to shoot long range?If you are than O.K.,but for anything under 400 yards I don't think you will see any better results from using the longer/heavier 77gr+ bullets.I would use the 69gr smk,,That would be a perfect bullet(probably) for that 1-9 twist barrel at those ranges. +1 to Mcgee,,I bet you would be better off using good quality factory ammo for safety anyways. If you do the reloading thing(I would)Like mcgee said,Be very carefull with your pressures and loads ,as well as checking all your rounds for proper powder charges before you seat the bullets.I would also crimp them as well(even though I don't). As far as the barrel under those conditions??I have personally loaded 10-30rnd mags(300rnds)And put them through my shorty DPMS upper as fast as I could pull the trigger and slap the mags in .After so many rounds,THE BARREL STOPS(I said stops) SMOKING from being so HOT!!!I could not hold onto the handguards of the rifle it was so hot!.All the oil and everything was completely BURNED off from the barrel. I would NOT dream of doing that with my 24" stainless upper I have now.NO WAY IN HE*L!!!. I will say after that abuse,The barrel was very clean ,and I did not notice an accuracy loss. IT CAN'T be GOOD THOUGH Again I think Mcgee's advice is VERY GOOD advice.You want to spend more time shooting,,NOT reloading for that volume of ammo.To MUCH stuff to deal with,It will take away from your shooting IMO. Maybe find some good accurate ,maybe cheap ammo to do the bulk of your shorter range shooting.Maybe consider trying the Blackhills 69gr smk type ammo for the longer ranges.Try a BOX,and if it shoots good,,,Order up the bullets and try and duplicate the blackhills ammo in reloading(if you have the time). That is ALOT of ammo to burn through! BTW ,that RRA sounds like the perfect rig for what your doing.JUST my $.02

January 28, 2007, 04:11 PM	#12
HiltonFarmer Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2006 Location: Western Canada Posts: 324	Rusty Will you be able to cook eggs on that barrel after all those shots in 60 seconds!? That's a lot of shooting. What type of a match is that? HiltonFarmer __________________ I wish gun control could go away. That way I could buy anything I wanted. _______________________________________ Keep the muzzle pointed down range please!

January 28, 2007, 06:33 PM	#14
dustinlowery Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2007 Location: ON Canada Posts: 127	I just bought some federal 69gr SMK's you reccomend them for shooting 300-400m in a 16inch barrel w/1:9 twist __________________ Fight to live, Live to Fight If god didn't want us to kill why are our eyes on the front of our head

January 29, 2007, 12:16 PM	#18
MrGee Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 260	lane at a guess ~ read the box .. what does SMK.. Sierra MAtch King ?, if so, look in the Sierra loading guide for a factory dup. , if its a Fed case it should be a fed primer ? maybe like a GM210M ~ powder ??? you could carefully pull a head off an weigh the powder [measure the lenght of thecase too] an match that to a 69gr bullet load.. just guessing on all that, .. maybe some others have more info to come..

January 29, 2007, 12:29 PM	#19
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	With the 69 gr SMK bullets in my 1-9" Bushy, My best loads so far have been with IMR-4064. All hand weighed though, friggen stick powder.

January 29, 2007, 02:18 PM	#20
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Edward,,TRy medium/or small stick(extruded)My a2015 br loads,as well as my h4895 loads are SPOT on using a LEE PPM and checked with scale(1st loads of 50,and then last loads of 50 checked as well)..I HATE LONG extruded powders.IMR 3031:barf: .Accurate yes,but a pain to meter

January 29, 2007, 02:34 PM	#21
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Hey, thanks Bucky. I'll try that. So far I've tried H335, IMR4895(S), BLC-2(S), and RX15, and nothing has performed as well as 4064 with the 69's. I could live with the 4064 if I had to, but it sure would be nice to not have to trickle charge them. Last edited by Edward429451; January 29, 2007 at 03:25 PM.

January 29, 2007, 03:24 PM	#22
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	With h4895 using 77gr smk,I am getting better than M.O.A. at 600 yards with Lc brass with no special prep using winchester primers metering with the $20 Lee PPM.I keep the loads under Lee (never exceed loads) and they shoot better and better as the charge increases.I still try and keep them safe though and I back them off when I start losing case life. H4895 is dirty like h335 But for your 69gr smk,,I bet you will like the accuracy and metering out of h4895,or varget(I think that is small/medium extruded as well and near the same burn rate as h4895) A2015br is excellent as well(I think its called A xmr2015 now). It is so nice not having to use dippers ,or a scale to get accurate/FAST charges EVERY time.

January 29, 2007, 03:27 PM	#23
Lane Member Join Date: January 25, 2007 Posts: 96	bucky is there a lot cleaner burning powder than h4895 that will still give good performance w/ 69grsmk?

January 29, 2007, 03:49 PM	#24
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	From my(limited) experience the best performing/clean powder is A2015BR(A xmr 2015).And that would be perfect for 69gr smk. I have also read in the BOOK on ar15's Called "Black Magic",That the a 2015br worked very well for the author in many different loads for the ar15 for accuracy and reliability.. I don't know for sure if the powder changed at all when the name changed,I doubt it .It is one of the powders for that bullet weight in my Lee book..

January 29, 2007, 03:54 PM	#25
MrGee Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 260	BuckyB & Edward... what are you fellas shooting, AR-'s, or bolt guns @ 600yrds, i have a older SP model AR- with a 1-7 on it an i've never been able to get under a MOA @100with anything over 55gr.bullet, 68 Horns an 69 Serra is like shoot'n a shotgun paper wise... never tried 77grainers are worth the effert ? ?