DE.44mag w/10" barrel ... adjustments?

FreeTheLead · April 17, 2010, 11:06 PM

I'm new to this site ... was hoping for a little guidance from experienced reloaders.

I stumbled onto a Desert Eagle .44 at a price I just couldn't pass up. It came with a second barrel - about 10". My question is: do I need to be careful/adjust for these extra few inches in my loads for SAFETY/gun function?

Here's my background:
I've loaded thousands of rounds for semi-auto pistols and rifle for over 10 years but my experience is limited to a handful of calibers. I own/have shot magnums ... but not reloaded them. I try to read up before I do something new and the more I read/hear about reloading specifically for DE, the trickier it sounds.

Here's why I ask:
Compared to other large pistols I've shot over the years, it surprised me how tame this DE was. Big boom, big flash, feel it in the chest, jumps a bit ...yeah, yeah, no big deal, shot lots of these before ... fun. That was until I dropped in the 10" barrel. I'm not new to guns; I knew longer barrel=higher pressures=gonna feel it, but it was a whole 'nother animal. Kicked like a mule and seemed like I felt the slide just slam back each round. That sick, twisted part of me kind of liked it, but I began wondering, do I need to compensate for this when I reload? I'd like to work up some hunting-loads for this barrel. I'm NOT looking for recipes for standard DE loads ... I have/can find plenty of those... anybody with experience in loads for standard v. LONGER barrels? Thoughts? Ideas?

Hook686 · April 18, 2010, 12:01 AM

I have a DE in .44 magnum, 6" barrel only. I have the .357 magnum barrel, both 6" and 10". So, I cannot answer specifically about your .44 magnum DE with 10" barrel. However my reloads for the .357 magnum DE are nearer to the maximum load data, than to the starting load data. I really have not noticed any difference in recoil, whether I was using the 6" barrel, or the 10" barrel. This was true for my reloads, as well as a wide range of factory loads I have tried. I really do not understand why your pistol is responding like that. Have you taken it in and talked to a good gunsmith ?

FreeTheLead · April 20, 2010, 12:22 AM

This was only the 2nd time I'd shot it, first for 10" barrel. Though factory loads, they seemed a little hotter in the standard barrel v. the first time I shot it. With standard barrel it's smooth as silk so I guessed (???) if it was something, it would be the barrel. Other than upping the recoil everything else was fine... brass looks okay and primers okay and 10" barrel was quite accurate - at 40-50yd was hitting milk jug with iron sights. Your point is well taken though and I am considering having someone check it out. (Had a Kimber ultra-ten II with a cracked frame and the only symptom was jamming.) I didn't think it would act that much differently but then never had a gun I could switch out between a long barrel so didn't want to over-react. Also have moved so don't know a good gunsmith ... yet. I thought I'd see if some folks here might shed some light on the situation first. Thanks for your input!

FrankenMauser · April 20, 2010, 12:38 AM

I think you'll "feel" the sweet spot, as a reloader. I don't think you'll need to make any adjustments.

The classic guidance, "Start low, and work up" should do you just fine.

jtmckinney · April 20, 2010, 07:50 AM

FreeTheLead

You did not mention the effect on accuracy and distance you were shooting. 6" to a 10" barrell is quite a change. A chromatagraph would let you know if you greatly increased velocity, if so then more recoil would be expected and would tell me that the 6" barrell was very inefficient with the load with the 10" more efficient.

Correction: I just re-read your second post and you did say distance and accuracy. Sorry about that.

These are two different barrells and possible the difference in resistance to bullet movement early in powder ignition is what's causing the difference.

Check out this link http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html It may have some info that you may find useful.

Good luck and let us know what you find out.
James

FreeTheLead · May 7, 2010, 12:30 AM

Thanks for the input. I have not had time to take the DE back out. Darn work interfering with my shooting habits again. Maybe this coming week? The only close place to shoot for me is "first come first serve" ... which generally leaves me out.

I ran into a guy locally who has been reloading for /shooting a DE .44 for quite a while and has same barrels I do. In discussing it with him, he thinks it's fine and probably difference in pressures with different barrel length. He's noticed quite a bit of torque/ rotation with the 10" barrel with some loads. As we talked, I thought back and that's part of it. I have some different factory loads now and will try those. THANKS for the www site, jtmckinney - interesting stuff and probably what I'm noticing. FrankenMauser - I completely agree with starting low and working up, always good advice. And yep, I know what you mean about the sweet spot; 10-12 yr ago when I started reloading and was shooting mostly .40SW had a load my Glocks loved and just recently found one that makes my AR quite happy. Hoping I find one for the DE ... if I can ever get back out and shoot it!!

Hook686 · May 7, 2010, 12:57 AM

Just remember for the DE, 1) jacketed bullets only, 2) no light, or middle-light loads ... the DE likes full magnum loads.

**44 AMP** · May 7, 2010, 12:00 PM

You are getting increased recoil, and the slide slams back harder with the 10" over the 6" barrel? Is that right? Using the same ammo, right?

This seems to violate the normal situation, which is, that when you add more weight, you damp the recoil.

However, there is a possible explanation. You are using a different barrel, which almost makes it a different gun. It is possible that possible that the 10" is tighter that the 6", which would increase pressure. It is also possible that the gas port of the 10" is larger that the 6" (maybe even larger than it ought to be), and that is why the slide is slamming back harder, more gas is getting in the system.

Also consdier the powder you are using. What developes a good pressure curve for the 6" might not be as good for the 10", or vice versa.

It could even be, since these barrels are used, that one of the has its gas system paritally blocked (but still functional) so the other one seems to work the action "harder". The DE gas system is really strange, with the port just in front of the chamber, and the gas routed to the front (6" length), before turning a 180, and pushing on the piston to work the action. The only part of it that can be cleaned well is the part where the piston is.

Best thing I can think of, is that for each barrel, you work up loads individually, starting low (as always). And remember, NO LEAD bullets! EVER!

April 17, 2010, 11:06 PM	#1
FreeTheLead Junior Member Join Date: April 17, 2010 Posts: 5	DE.44mag w/10" barrel ... adjustments? I'm new to this site ... was hoping for a little guidance from experienced reloaders. I stumbled onto a Desert Eagle .44 at a price I just couldn't pass up. It came with a second barrel - about 10". My question is: do I need to be careful/adjust for these extra few inches in my loads for SAFETY/gun function? Here's my background: I've loaded thousands of rounds for semi-auto pistols and rifle for over 10 years but my experience is limited to a handful of calibers. I own/have shot magnums ... but not reloaded them. I try to read up before I do something new and the more I read/hear about reloading specifically for DE, the trickier it sounds. Here's why I ask: Compared to other large pistols I've shot over the years, it surprised me how tame this DE was. Big boom, big flash, feel it in the chest, jumps a bit ...yeah, yeah, no big deal, shot lots of these before ... fun. That was until I dropped in the 10" barrel. I'm not new to guns; I knew longer barrel=higher pressures=gonna feel it, but it was a whole 'nother animal. Kicked like a mule and seemed like I felt the slide just slam back each round. That sick, twisted part of me kind of liked it, but I began wondering, do I need to compensate for this when I reload? I'd like to work up some hunting-loads for this barrel. I'm NOT looking for recipes for standard DE loads ... I have/can find plenty of those... anybody with experience in loads for standard v. LONGER barrels? Thoughts? Ideas?

April 18, 2010, 12:01 AM	#2
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	I have a DE in .44 magnum, 6" barrel only. I have the .357 magnum barrel, both 6" and 10". So, I cannot answer specifically about your .44 magnum DE with 10" barrel. However my reloads for the .357 magnum DE are nearer to the maximum load data, than to the starting load data. I really have not noticed any difference in recoil, whether I was using the 6" barrel, or the 10" barrel. This was true for my reloads, as well as a wide range of factory loads I have tried. I really do not understand why your pistol is responding like that. Have you taken it in and talked to a good gunsmith ? __________________ Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

April 20, 2010, 12:38 AM	#4
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	I think you'll "feel" the sweet spot, as a reloader. I don't think you'll need to make any adjustments. The classic guidance, "Start low, and work up" should do you just fine. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

April 20, 2010, 07:50 AM	#5
jtmckinney Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 490	FreeTheLead You did not mention the effect on accuracy and distance you were shooting. 6" to a 10" barrell is quite a change. A chromatagraph would let you know if you greatly increased velocity, if so then more recoil would be expected and would tell me that the 6" barrell was very inefficient with the load with the 10" more efficient. Correction: I just re-read your second post and you did say distance and accuracy. Sorry about that. These are two different barrells and possible the difference in resistance to bullet movement early in powder ignition is what's causing the difference. Check out this link http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html It may have some info that you may find useful. Good luck and let us know what you find out. James Last edited by jtmckinney; April 20, 2010 at 09:06 AM. Reason: Correction

May 7, 2010, 12:57 AM	#7
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	Just remember for the DE, 1) jacketed bullets only, 2) no light, or middle-light loads ... the DE likes full magnum loads. __________________ Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

April 20, 2010, 12:22 AM	#3
FreeTheLead Junior Member Join Date: April 17, 2010 Posts: 5	This was only the 2nd time I'd shot it, first for 10" barrel. Though factory loads, they seemed a little hotter in the standard barrel v. the first time I shot it. With standard barrel it's smooth as silk so I guessed (???) if it was something, it would be the barrel. Other than upping the recoil everything else was fine... brass looks okay and primers okay and 10" barrel was quite accurate - at 40-50yd was hitting milk jug with iron sights. Your point is well taken though and I am considering having someone check it out. (Had a Kimber ultra-ten II with a cracked frame and the only symptom was jamming.) I didn't think it would act that much differently but then never had a gun I could switch out between a long barrel so didn't want to over-react. Also have moved so don't know a good gunsmith ... yet. I thought I'd see if some folks here might shed some light on the situation first. Thanks for your input!

May 7, 2010, 12:30 AM	#6
FreeTheLead Junior Member Join Date: April 17, 2010 Posts: 5	Thanks for the input. I have not had time to take the DE back out. Darn work interfering with my shooting habits again. Maybe this coming week? The only close place to shoot for me is "first come first serve" ... which generally leaves me out. I ran into a guy locally who has been reloading for /shooting a DE .44 for quite a while and has same barrels I do. In discussing it with him, he thinks it's fine and probably difference in pressures with different barrel length. He's noticed quite a bit of torque/ rotation with the 10" barrel with some loads. As we talked, I thought back and that's part of it. I have some different factory loads now and will try those. THANKS for the www site, jtmckinney - interesting stuff and probably what I'm noticing. FrankenMauser - I completely agree with starting low and working up, always good advice. And yep, I know what you mean about the sweet spot; 10-12 yr ago when I started reloading and was shooting mostly .40SW had a load my Glocks loved and just recently found one that makes my AR quite happy. Hoping I find one for the DE ... if I can ever get back out and shoot it!!

May 7, 2010, 12:00 PM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	You are getting increased recoil, and the slide slams back harder with the 10" over the 6" barrel? Is that right? Using the same ammo, right? This seems to violate the normal situation, which is, that when you add more weight, you damp the recoil. However, there is a possible explanation. You are using a different barrel, which almost makes it a different gun. It is possible that possible that the 10" is tighter that the 6", which would increase pressure. It is also possible that the gas port of the 10" is larger that the 6" (maybe even larger than it ought to be), and that is why the slide is slamming back harder, more gas is getting in the system. Also consdier the powder you are using. What developes a good pressure curve for the 6" might not be as good for the 10", or vice versa. It could even be, since these barrels are used, that one of the has its gas system paritally blocked (but still functional) so the other one seems to work the action "harder". The DE gas system is really strange, with the port just in front of the chamber, and the gas routed to the front (6" length), before turning a 180, and pushing on the piston to work the action. The only part of it that can be cleaned well is the part where the piston is. Best thing I can think of, is that for each barrel, you work up loads individually, starting low (as always). And remember, NO LEAD bullets! EVER! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.