H335 or WC844 for 45 ACP?

Ervin · October 9, 2011, 05:51 PM

Ive heard of some people using WC 844 for 9mil loads, so that got me thinking if I could use the same .223 powder for 1911 pistol loads.
One powder = two calibers.

just an idea, not my own practice, wanted to know the dangers of this, powder burn rate of WC 844 compared to Bullseye for example??

thanks

Charlie98 · October 9, 2011, 05:58 PM

H335 is a rifle powder... that would be like using IMR4895 for .45ACP loads...

Adamantium · October 9, 2011, 06:05 PM

Those two powders have vastly different burn rates. H335 is significantly slower than anything recommended for 9mm or 45acp. (I'm not saying that you can truly compare powders by burn rates either). You would certainly have to create your own load data. This carries the chance of both blowing up your gun or having a squib load.

I sometimes get the flair to be different as well but I'm not seeing the logic here when you can get 1000+ rounds out of 1lbs of most powders suitable to 45acp.

Adamantium · October 9, 2011, 06:06 PM

http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

mrawesome22 · October 9, 2011, 06:14 PM

Oy vey.

m&p45acp10+1 · October 9, 2011, 06:49 PM

H-335 in a .45 ACP would make H-110 look weak. As far as the other I am not familiar with that powder.

I use Bull's Eye, and TiteGroup for .45 ACP. Though I am not going for scorcher velocities either.

Now if you do not mind the velocity loss in the .223 and a slight loss in the .45 ACP. You can safely load both with Trail Boss. Follow the instructions on Hodgdon's web page, and you can load for both without having published data.

totaldla · October 9, 2011, 08:03 PM

Go ahead and try it. You won't blow up your gun but you might get a squib. You may also find that a standard primer may not ignite H335. Post your results.

mrawesome22 · October 9, 2011, 08:04 PM

CrustyFN · October 9, 2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

H-335 in a .45 ACP would make H-110 look weak. As far as the other I am not familiar with that powder.

WC-844 is the pull down equivalent of H-335. I use WC-844 in 223 with the same data as H-335 and get the same great results.

m&p45acp10+1 · October 9, 2011, 08:25 PM

Thanks for the info crusty. If I run across some real cheap I will pick it up. H-335 is my go to for 55 grain bullets in .223 Rem.

As far as using H335 for .45 acp I would advise against it. Also I would advise you warn the people at the range to stand behind a blast shiled while you destroy your gun, and risk your life and limb. It is one of those things that it is just not worth it to try.

If you want higher velocity in .45 ACP try some Blue Dot, or Red Dot. They will give you some slightly higher velocities while sticking with published loads. There are some cast bullet loads for .223 Rem using pistol powders, though the velocites are going to be much slower. On another note Unique is listed for .45 ACP loads, as well as for a 55 grain cast bullet in .223 Rem in my Lyman Pistol & Revolver 3rd Edition

mehavey · October 9, 2011, 08:57 PM

Actually.... mrawesome22 said best:

More than 80% of the H335 would act as filler.

(But on the bright side, a 10# recoil spring might work.

snuffy · October 9, 2011, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Ervin
Senior Member

Join Date: October 9, 2009
Posts: 106

H335 or WC844 for 45 ACP?
Ive heard of some people using WC 844 for 9mil loads, so that got me thinking if I could use the same .223 powder for 1911 pistol loads.
One powder = two calibers.

just an idea, not my own practice, wanted to know the dangers of this, powder burn rate of WC 844 compared to Bullseye for example??

thanks

If you can ask a question like that, you have no business being around reloading anything. Somebody was trying to pull your leg, to see if you'd believe him/her.

One of 2 things would happen if you tried to use WC-844 in any handgun round. Nothing, no fire a squib. Or a completely blown up gun with injuries to the shooter and bystanders. It's rifle powder, not usable for normal handgun ammo.

Miata Mike · October 9, 2011, 11:21 PM

Quote:

It's rifle powder, not usable for normal handgun ammo.

We use shotgun powder and rifle powder all the time for handguns. Think Unique(shotgun) and 2400 (rifle)for instance.

But having said that, there is no way I would ever try a random powder without having a recipe spelled out in a reloading manual or a powder manufacturers online loading manual. I do stick to the tried and true powders.

Adamantium · October 9, 2011, 11:32 PM

Unique and 2400 are powders suitable to handguns, that is the big difference here. No one is asking a philosophical question about whether some powders have the ability to work in rifle/shotgun/pistol calibers. The question is being asked if H335 can be used in 45acp.

mrawesome22 · October 9, 2011, 11:36 PM

My guess, if it fired at all, is that the bullet would stick in the barrel, un-burned powder would go all in the action and mag (if there was enough force to work the slide) and it would just be awful in general.

ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR....... Primer pressure lodges bullet in barrel, bullet is now obstruction in barrel, powder ignites, barrel explodes? Frame explodes? Slide hits shooter and bystanders with metallic shrapnel?

I agree with snuffy's assesment lol.

Jim243 · October 10, 2011, 01:01 AM

Quote:

just an idea, not my own practice, wanted to know the dangers of this

NOT a good one!!!!!!

A rifle barrel and chamber for 223 is made to with stand 60,000 psi a 1911 maybe 20,000 psi. The amount of powder for a 223 is generally 24 to 25 grains, for a 45 ACP about 5 grains of powder. Even shotgun powder like Clays is only 4 grains.

Where you are going to find a published load for H-335 for 45 ACP only the Lord knows and if not careful you maybe joining him soon.

That is the danger of using high energy centerfire smokeless rifle powder in a pistol. And not worth the risk to you or the people around you.

Jim

Miata Mike · October 10, 2011, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Unique and 2400 are powders suitable to handguns, that is the big difference here. No one is asking a philosophical question about whether some powders have the ability to work in rifle/shotgun/pistol calibers. The question is being asked if H335 can be used in 45acp.

Adamantium, I agree and apologize. Snuffy's comment could be interpreted 2 ways, and I focused on the way I am now sure it was not intended.

There is no way I would try any thing so dangerous when I can load up 1500+ rounds of .45acp with a cheap pound of Bullseye or WST.

Adamantium · October 10, 2011, 02:19 PM

I didn't mean to sound harsh and if I did I apologize also. Its just that generalities can get inexperienced people in trouble. I use 2400 for both rifle and handgun, I'd even use it for 410 if I had one, but when I was new to reloading I wouldn't do anything without an approved load. That's what I always recommend for others as well.

CrustyFN · October 10, 2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the info crusty. If I run across some real cheap I will pick it up. H-335 is my go to for 55 grain bullets in .223 Rem.

You're welcome. You can buy an 8 pound bottle from Pat's and I think Xtreme for $80 plus shipping and hazmat. H-335 is also my go to powder for 223. I have tried a few powders and can't find anything better. I also agree about not using it in pistol rounds.

October 9, 2011, 05:51 PM	#1
Ervin Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Posts: 125	H335 or WC844 for 45 ACP? Ive heard of some people using WC 844 for 9mil loads, so that got me thinking if I could use the same .223 powder for 1911 pistol loads. One powder = two calibers. just an idea, not my own practice, wanted to know the dangers of this, powder burn rate of WC 844 compared to Bullseye for example?? thanks

October 9, 2011, 06:49 PM	#6
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	H-335 in a .45 ACP would make H-110 look weak. As far as the other I am not familiar with that powder. I use Bull's Eye, and TiteGroup for .45 ACP. Though I am not going for scorcher velocities either. Now if you do not mind the velocity loss in the .223 and a slight loss in the .45 ACP. You can safely load both with Trail Boss. Follow the instructions on Hodgdon's web page, and you can load for both without having published data. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

October 9, 2011, 08:03 PM	#7
totaldla Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2009 Location: SW Idaho Posts: 1,291	Go ahead and try it. You won't blow up your gun but you might get a squib. You may also find that a standard primer may not ignite H335. Post your results. __________________ Lee Auto Bench Prime Castor Oil Case Lube

October 9, 2011, 08:04 PM	#8
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Last edited by mrawesome22; October 9, 2011 at 08:14 PM.

October 9, 2011, 08:25 PM	#10
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	Thanks for the info crusty. If I run across some real cheap I will pick it up. H-335 is my go to for 55 grain bullets in .223 Rem. As far as using H335 for .45 acp I would advise against it. Also I would advise you warn the people at the range to stand behind a blast shiled while you destroy your gun, and risk your life and limb. It is one of those things that it is just not worth it to try. If you want higher velocity in .45 ACP try some Blue Dot, or Red Dot. They will give you some slightly higher velocities while sticking with published loads. There are some cast bullet loads for .223 Rem using pistol powders, though the velocites are going to be much slower. On another note Unique is listed for .45 ACP loads, as well as for a 55 grain cast bullet in .223 Rem in my Lyman Pistol & Revolver 3rd Edition __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you. Last edited by m&p45acp10+1; October 9, 2011 at 08:29 PM. Reason: correction

October 9, 2011, 05:58 PM	#2
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	H335 is a rifle powder... that would be like using IMR4895 for .45ACP loads...

October 9, 2011, 06:05 PM	#3
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	Those two powders have vastly different burn rates. H335 is significantly slower than anything recommended for 9mm or 45acp. (I'm not saying that you can truly compare powders by burn rates either). You would certainly have to create your own load data. This carries the chance of both blowing up your gun or having a squib load. I sometimes get the flair to be different as well but I'm not seeing the logic here when you can get 1000+ rounds out of 1lbs of most powders suitable to 45acp.

October 9, 2011, 06:06 PM	#4
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	http://www.hodgdon.com/burn-rate.html

October 9, 2011, 06:14 PM	#5
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Oy vey.

October 9, 2011, 08:57 PM	#11
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	Actually.... mrawesome22 said best: More than 80% of the H335 would act as filler. (But on the bright side, a 10# recoil spring might work. Last edited by mehavey; October 10, 2011 at 06:18 AM.

October 9, 2011, 11:32 PM	#14
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	Unique and 2400 are powders suitable to handguns, that is the big difference here. No one is asking a philosophical question about whether some powders have the ability to work in rifle/shotgun/pistol calibers. The question is being asked if H335 can be used in 45acp.

October 9, 2011, 11:36 PM	#15
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	My guess, if it fired at all, is that the bullet would stick in the barrel, un-burned powder would go all in the action and mag (if there was enough force to work the slide) and it would just be awful in general. ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR....... Primer pressure lodges bullet in barrel, bullet is now obstruction in barrel, powder ignites, barrel explodes? Frame explodes? Slide hits shooter and bystanders with metallic shrapnel? I agree with snuffy's assesment lol. Last edited by mrawesome22; October 9, 2011 at 11:39 PM. Reason: Forking Spellering

October 10, 2011, 02:19 PM	#18
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	I didn't mean to sound harsh and if I did I apologize also. Its just that generalities can get inexperienced people in trouble. I use 2400 for both rifle and handgun, I'd even use it for 410 if I had one, but when I was new to reloading I wouldn't do anything without an approved load. That's what I always recommend for others as well.