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Old June 20, 2013, 09:47 PM   #26
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Doc Hoy:
Very good examples Sir. Can clearly see the difference between the two brass rings. I do have a question though. When buying a used brass framed weapon. I would assume its important that its prospective buyer needs to look at this brass rings condition during its pre-buy inspection. Can you see that rings condition well enough when the pistol is fully assembled? As that's the way those counter guys usually hand it to you for a look see. (fully assembled)

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Old June 21, 2013, 05:08 AM   #27
Doc Hoy
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As Ronald Reagan Said,"Well..."

It is hard to see with the pistol fully assembled unless it is real bad.

But they are easy enough to get apart that the person selling should not mind if you take it apart.

To me it is about like taking the bolt out of a bolt action rifle so you can see the bore.

Another thing you might be looking for is the extent of the gas cut on the top of the arbor even with the front of the cylinder.

If the guy won't let you take it apart, don't buy it unless you are willing to accept the risk.

Tnx,
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Old June 21, 2013, 10:09 AM   #28
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Quote:
Another thing you might be looking for is the extent of the gas cut on the top of the arbor even with the front of the cylinder.
Doc Hoy:
I hope it isn't an imposition for you just because I've asked. But since you posted photo's of the good and not so good brass recoil rings. And it was done so well that even I could understand and see their differences. I was wondering if you have any examples in that old box of parts you have there that show gas cutting on a arbor and on a cylinder that we should be aware of before a purchase also? I'm quite sure many watching this Thread as well as the OP and I are getting an educational understanding how to buy a used brass framed pistol wisely thanks to you and a few others. What to look at in a pre-purchase exam of a pistol and remembering what we've seen in your photo's Doc. That indeed is invaluable information shared.

S/S
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Old June 21, 2013, 10:43 AM   #29
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Great photo Doc! The recoil ring battering, IMO is likely the major cause of chain fires in brass framed Colt copies rather than flame getting in under the caps (or getting by ill fitted balls from the front). I think the caps get smacked against the frame and go off because the dented recoil ring allows more rearward movement of the cylinder. Your photo shows the denting splendidly.
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Old June 21, 2013, 10:48 AM   #30
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As to gas cutting on the arbor, some guns get to a certain point and then the cutting levels off and doesn't get much worse. Where I would use the finding is if the gun is presented "as new" or "little fired". The gas cutting would indicate this is not true. I'm not sure whether after a few hundred rounds that you could tell from a gun fired a few hundred more rounds.
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Old June 21, 2013, 12:24 PM   #31
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so yeah

well after seeng thos pics im a happy camper! mine has no signs of wear on the ring! the only problem i had was the arbor would loosen but after tighting it fully it wont move and the wedge fits tight.............
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Old June 21, 2013, 02:08 PM   #32
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This one is 23 years old, and it has been fired a few times. You can clearly see where the hot gases escaping between the cylinder and forcing cone are cutting a groove. But as mentioned, the cutting levels off with time and I don't think it does anything other than show that the revolver has been fired many times. I see no damage or loss of performance or safety with it. It doesn't take a whole lot of shots to show some cutting.... but it definitely tells that it isn't in unfired condition.
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Old June 21, 2013, 02:56 PM   #33
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Beagles photo is a good one.

I'll add these but with Beag's they are not really necessary





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Old June 21, 2013, 09:34 PM   #34
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Doc Hoy - in silver soldering the steel ring on the frame, isn't the center pin removed first?
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Old June 22, 2013, 02:16 AM   #35
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Gary

That is the way it was in the frame I was practicing on.

But that frame was essentially junk.

Arbor so loose I was pretty certain it was never going to be usable so I figured I would experiment with it.

I took the arbor out, and milled the damaged ring flush with the recoil shield. I cut a ring from steel on the lathe which was the same thickness as the original recoil shield.

If I had been able to hold the new ring in place and then get good solder wetting all the way around, I might have been able to replace the ring.

That was the plan, followed by soldering the arbor while holding its position by installing the barrel.

I never got to first base with it.

I may try to fiddle with it some more but right now my ego won't stand the embarrassment. Always hard when your brain can think of things your hands can't do
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Old June 22, 2013, 06:07 AM   #36
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Quote:
Always hard when your brain can think of things your hands can't do
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Old June 22, 2013, 02:39 PM   #37
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the one thing I dont see,, is a pic... ???
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Old June 22, 2013, 02:48 PM   #38
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the one thing I dont see,, is a pic... ???
Of what?
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Old June 22, 2013, 08:12 PM   #39
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Omg ughhhhhhh

Ok so ive been looking everywhere online for .36 balls and EVERYWHERE is sold out and backorderable this is #$!Q#&%$& i have everything but wads and balls and i cant find BALLS for anything lol i might hafta by a press and make my own! i work at a car shop so i got plenty of old lead weights.....grrr this burns my @$$ i just wanna shoot it!
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Old June 22, 2013, 08:16 PM   #40
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PM sent

PM sent
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Old June 22, 2013, 08:24 PM   #41
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Quote:
i work at a car shop so i got plenty of old lead weights.
Clip on weights are too hard for bp. The stick on weights are ok tho, just have to watch out for zinc ones.
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Old June 22, 2013, 09:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
the one thing I dont see,, is a pic... ???
Here's one I just happened to have laying around:



Probably going to complain about being off topic now.

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Old June 22, 2013, 09:54 PM   #43
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Get a mold (Lee is cheapest) and just make your own out of stick-on weights.
Casting is pretty easy, once you collect the few needed items to get started. You'll make your money back in no time if you use many balls at all. I was buying round balls from Bass Pro and Cabelas and the like, for $15-18 a box, then figured out that I could cast my own for $2 or less per box.
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Old June 23, 2013, 02:23 AM   #44
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Doc, since you've had problems silver soldering your steel recoil ring on, have you tried J&B weld epoxy to attach your steel recoil ring? I've heard of others doing that who said it worked.


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"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old June 23, 2013, 04:03 AM   #45
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Quote:
Beagle333 wrote:
Personally..... I'd recommend giving the 1860 a whirl.
1860. It just feels right.

I agree with you Beagle and also think the 1860 is the best balanced of them all. As you advise, I frequently give my 1860's a "whirl" as in my below video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfKzaxsRVGM


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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old June 23, 2013, 04:53 AM   #46
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Great fun, but when you get tired of shooting at large targets only, get yourself a "Quality" single shot muzzleloader pistol and find out what the real accuracy potential is for for one. The revolvers are fun, just not as accurate as the single shots.
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Old June 23, 2013, 05:11 AM   #47
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Bill Atkins

Good to see your posts again.

Hadn't read anything from you in a while.

I haven't tried JB weld but I agree that some have said it works pretty good.

I haven't messed with this in a while but the conversation is getting my curiosity up.
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Old June 23, 2013, 06:48 AM   #48
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I've been pretty busy with projects Doc, so although I haven't posted recently as frequently as I used to, I am still reading others posts even if you don't see me posting a lot.


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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".
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Old June 23, 2013, 07:07 AM   #49
thebser
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excited!

Im getting super excited about my first bp shoot! Ive gathered most of everything i need! Still need to find a nipple wrench that will fit!
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Old June 23, 2013, 09:42 AM   #50
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thebser, yep you will need a nipple wrench for sure. Check on ebay or gunbroker.
Remember to keep your nipple threads oiled so they won't seize up on you when you want to remove them. Also find out which caps fit your nipples best. Sometimes #10's fit better and sometimes #11's fit better depending on the manufacturer of the gun.

I use #10's on my Pietta 1860 Colts, but #10's are not as easy to find (in my experience) as the #11's are. If your nipples work best with #10 caps, you might look into getting some Treso replacement stainless nipples. You can select whether you want #10's or #11's nipples. That way if your nipples do take #10 caps, you could replace them with nipples that took #11 caps which in my experience are more common, cheaper and easier to find.


It is important that your caps fit tightly on the nipples and that you don't have to pinch them to keep them from falling off. When you pinch them for them to hold on, they are too large. Also believe it or not, fire from one cap can (but rarely) jump over and go up the pinched thin channel in your pinched cap and cause a chainfire from the rear.

Treso nipples and some other aftermarket nipples too, work better because they aren't as cone shaped as some standard nipples are that came with the revolver. So the cap goes on further and you don't have to shove it on with a wooden rod like you do on some nipples to make sure they are on far enough. Sometimes (frequently) with cone shaped nipples, your first hammer strike will just drive the cap all the way on the nipple and you have to drop the hammer on it a second time for it to fire. You don't want that.

Just little things like this you learn from experience. Get you some of those little plastic cap keepers too. They look like little miniature rubber bands somewhat and push onto the cap and help keep the cap on the nipple so it won't get cap fragments falling down the hammer channel and locking up your revolver so that you have to disassemble it to remove the fragment. I've had to disassemble my revolvers a few times because of this, even though I usually tilt the revolver to the right when cocking to help any cap fragment to fall out rather than to fall into the gun's mechanism. Anyone who has an open top Colt style revolver has had that happen to them. Ruins your shooting outing.

You can also point the revolver straight up when you cock it, over even slightly more than straight up so that the barrel is actually more to the rear than the hammer is, so that the cap fragment can fall away and won't fall into the hammer channel. This is more of a problem with an open top Colt style revolver than it is with a solid frame Remington though.

That's why in some old western movies you sometimes would see someone point their gun straight up when they cocked it. All that is flaws that were done away with when cartridges came out. But compared to a single shot pistol, in their day, the percussion revolver was a HUGE historical and technological advancement as well as a real advantage over a single shot pistol. They are a lot of fun to shoot and will force you into learning about
loading, so be prepared to become a reloader of regular cartridges too. You will learn little tricks like how to load two balls in one chamber so one shot gives you two strikes on the target.

Very important. NEVER, repeat, NEVER load directly from the powder flask.
If there is just a tiny ember in the chamber it will travel up the black powder stream and set your flask off like a grenade in your hand. If you lived you would be minus a hand and even if the shrapnel of the flask didn't kill you or blind you, the exploding powder grains would be forced into your eyes permanently blinding you. Bottom line for safety, ALWAYS, ALWAYS load from a powder measure. Pour the powder from the flask into the measure, then pour the measure into the cylinder. Keep your flask away from where you are shooting too. Lots of sparks with shooting black powder.



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"This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather".
"To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

Last edited by Bill Akins; June 23, 2013 at 09:55 AM.
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