Ejects back into my face!

HisSoldier · November 6, 2007, 08:13 PM

I asked earlier about the ejector on my Star model SS jamming horizontally. I welded up the ejector and that solved that, but now the problem is that the empties end up in my face. The extractor appears normal and hold a round well, the ejector is now almost as long as the one in my model S which is identical except for a magazine safety. Thanks for any help troubleshooting this.

Double Naught Spy · November 6, 2007, 10:18 PM

One reason this happens for many shooters, especially new shooters. It isn't so much the fault of the gun, but the shooter. The gun probably properly ejecting out the ejection port to the side. However during recoil, the gun torques/rolls left and upward in the shooter's hand(s), This results in orienting the ejection port to eject back towards the shooter's head.

The happens very quickly, so quickly that most shooters don't notice it happening or don't realize what might result. We actually identified the problem with a digital movie camera and then running the shot frame by frame. At 32 frames per second, the torque was only clearly caught in two frames.

HisSoldier · November 7, 2007, 01:14 AM

The problem with that is that it's the only handgun that does it. I found a post where 1911tuner wrote of the case hitting the right side of the slide below the port and bouncing up vertically and into the shooters face. I don't see the brass marks from that but perhaps I can put some kind of whiteout along there and see if it shows up. I also think a high speed camera is the best way to analyze the problem. 1911tuner said to either shorten or angle the ejector very slightly.

PzGren · November 7, 2007, 06:27 AM

I suspect the ejector as well but extractor tension also influences the pattern of ejection, and so does the power of the cartridge. The power of the load can change not only the distance but also the angle of ejection.

If I remember correctly, 1911s employ a shorter ejector for weaker target loads.

Double Naught Spy · November 7, 2007, 08:31 AM

You don't need a high speed camera. A good digital video camera will give you between 20 and 50 frames a second on the highest quality settings. That should be more than sufficient to see the problem, especially if you video multiple events, such as burning through a complete magazine.

HisSoldier · November 7, 2007, 01:23 PM

Well, researching this the extractor was mentioned as a possible culprit if the pressure is too high. This one does require a bit more force than I would expect to push a cartridge up into the extractor. This gun has an external extractor so replacing the coil spring with a lighter one shouldn't be too big a deal. Also the source said that the extractor entry edges should be rounded slightly when this problem exists. The same article mentioned ejector length in detail and showed the correct shape to fix the problem, but mind, this is not a true 1911.

Tuners response to similar question;
Howdy guys,

The brass isn't ejecting back into your face. It's being knocked backward by the slide because it's ejecting at 3 O'Clock, striking the lower edge of the port...rolling up...and into the path of the top of the port as the slide recoils.
You'll see brass marks on the edges of the port.

This is a fairly common problem with the GI Springfields...about one in three...
and it's not the gun's fault. The ejector is just wrong. Lowering the port won't help much. Replacing the ejector with a Brown extended part...and adjusting the length to allow live-round ejection is most of the cure.

The other part of the fix is to radius the bottom corner of the extractor hook
a little, and lightly breaking the corner on the backside to the hook so that the case will twist free without the front of the extractor getting into a bind
in the case's extractor groove.

There's also a possibility of the extractor hook being a little too deep from the tip to the bottom of the slot where the case rim contacts. Use calipers to measure from the tip to the backside...and then from the tip to the bottom of the slot, and subtract the difference. The difference should be
.032 to .035 inch. If it's too long, drag the tip sideways across a medium stone, being careful to keep it level...until it's in spec. Swipe the bottom corner in a sort of "rocking" motion to radius it, and LIGHTY break the top corner. Use a smooth mill file to cut a light bevel on the backside of the
end of the extractor...on the side opposite the hook to give it a little rollout clearance.

The ejector should be filed straight across to shorten it until it will eject a live ball round without hanging up in the port. Careful...if it wiggles around
just right, the primer can detonate on the end of the ejector. Test-fire the gun to see where the brass ejects. If it kicks out too high, file an angle on the bottom corner of the ejector to raise the point of impact with the brass.
Easy...A little goes a long way. Take a few strokes and test-fire. Repeat
until the ejection pattern changes. If it kicks out at a forward angle, lightly file an angle on the right side to cause the case twist free toward the rear.
Angle the top right corner a little to fine-tune the pattern until it ejects at 2 O'Clock or thereabouts. You can bias it toward the front or the rear with the side angle on the front of the ejector. Personally, I lean toward having the brass exit at 15 degrees right rear, and land 3-5 feet from the gun...but the distance is of no consequence as long as it gets clear of the port and doesn't
hit me in the face.

Luck!

Tuner

and that website; http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/e...perfection.htm

HisSoldier · November 7, 2007, 06:08 PM

I fine tuned the ejector per the website, the cases don't come back into my face anymore. It's a learning experience, thirty years ago I would have gotten rid of the pistol, now I take pleasure in figuring the problems away.

November 6, 2007, 08:13 PM	#1
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	Ejects back into my face! I asked earlier about the ejector on my Star model SS jamming horizontally. I welded up the ejector and that solved that, but now the problem is that the empties end up in my face. The extractor appears normal and hold a round well, the ejector is now almost as long as the one in my model S which is identical except for a magazine safety. Thanks for any help troubleshooting this.

November 6, 2007, 10:18 PM	#2
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	One reason this happens for many shooters, especially new shooters. It isn't so much the fault of the gun, but the shooter. The gun probably properly ejecting out the ejection port to the side. However during recoil, the gun torques/rolls left and upward in the shooter's hand(s), This results in orienting the ejection port to eject back towards the shooter's head. The happens very quickly, so quickly that most shooters don't notice it happening or don't realize what might result. We actually identified the problem with a digital movie camera and then running the shot frame by frame. At 32 frames per second, the torque was only clearly caught in two frames.

November 7, 2007, 01:14 AM	#3
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	The problem with that is that it's the only handgun that does it. I found a post where 1911tuner wrote of the case hitting the right side of the slide below the port and bouncing up vertically and into the shooters face. I don't see the brass marks from that but perhaps I can put some kind of whiteout along there and see if it shows up. I also think a high speed camera is the best way to analyze the problem. 1911tuner said to either shorten or angle the ejector very slightly.

November 7, 2007, 06:27 AM	#4
PzGren Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2001 Posts: 1,258	I suspect the ejector as well but extractor tension also influences the pattern of ejection, and so does the power of the cartridge. The power of the load can change not only the distance but also the angle of ejection. If I remember correctly, 1911s employ a shorter ejector for weaker target loads.

November 7, 2007, 08:31 AM	#5
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	You don't need a high speed camera. A good digital video camera will give you between 20 and 50 frames a second on the highest quality settings. That should be more than sufficient to see the problem, especially if you video multiple events, such as burning through a complete magazine.

November 7, 2007, 01:23 PM	#6
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	Well, researching this the extractor was mentioned as a possible culprit if the pressure is too high. This one does require a bit more force than I would expect to push a cartridge up into the extractor. This gun has an external extractor so replacing the coil spring with a lighter one shouldn't be too big a deal. Also the source said that the extractor entry edges should be rounded slightly when this problem exists. The same article mentioned ejector length in detail and showed the correct shape to fix the problem, but mind, this is not a true 1911. Tuners response to similar question; Howdy guys, The brass isn't ejecting back into your face. It's being knocked backward by the slide because it's ejecting at 3 O'Clock, striking the lower edge of the port...rolling up...and into the path of the top of the port as the slide recoils. You'll see brass marks on the edges of the port. This is a fairly common problem with the GI Springfields...about one in three... and it's not the gun's fault. The ejector is just wrong. Lowering the port won't help much. Replacing the ejector with a Brown extended part...and adjusting the length to allow live-round ejection is most of the cure. The other part of the fix is to radius the bottom corner of the extractor hook a little, and lightly breaking the corner on the backside to the hook so that the case will twist free without the front of the extractor getting into a bind in the case's extractor groove. There's also a possibility of the extractor hook being a little too deep from the tip to the bottom of the slot where the case rim contacts. Use calipers to measure from the tip to the backside...and then from the tip to the bottom of the slot, and subtract the difference. The difference should be .032 to .035 inch. If it's too long, drag the tip sideways across a medium stone, being careful to keep it level...until it's in spec. Swipe the bottom corner in a sort of "rocking" motion to radius it, and LIGHTY break the top corner. Use a smooth mill file to cut a light bevel on the backside of the end of the extractor...on the side opposite the hook to give it a little rollout clearance. The ejector should be filed straight across to shorten it until it will eject a live ball round without hanging up in the port. Careful...if it wiggles around just right, the primer can detonate on the end of the ejector. Test-fire the gun to see where the brass ejects. If it kicks out too high, file an angle on the bottom corner of the ejector to raise the point of impact with the brass. Easy...A little goes a long way. Take a few strokes and test-fire. Repeat until the ejection pattern changes. If it kicks out at a forward angle, lightly file an angle on the right side to cause the case twist free toward the rear. Angle the top right corner a little to fine-tune the pattern until it ejects at 2 O'Clock or thereabouts. You can bias it toward the front or the rear with the side angle on the front of the ejector. Personally, I lean toward having the brass exit at 15 degrees right rear, and land 3-5 feet from the gun...but the distance is of no consequence as long as it gets clear of the port and doesn't hit me in the face. Luck! Tuner and that website; http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/e...perfection.htm

November 7, 2007, 06:08 PM	#7
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	I fine tuned the ejector per the website, the cases don't come back into my face anymore. It's a learning experience, thirty years ago I would have gotten rid of the pistol, now I take pleasure in figuring the problems away.