Pre 86 , the good ole days ?

[boatmonkey82]

Ok Im a 82 so i was about 4 yrs old when the ban came in but what was it like before then . I dout you could stroll into kmart and buy a smg . what were the prices like and the laws surrounding the class 3 guns . tax stamps , forms , places to buy ect . who do I have to blame for my missed fun . fill me in here

[rantingredneck]

Tax stamps have been required since 1934.

'86 just closed the registry to new civilian use registrations of machine guns. Prices of full autos were not much more than their semiauto variants prior to the '86 registry closure, but the beaurocratic/regulatory brouhaha was in place well prior.

[David Hineline]

You have to blame the NRA who supported the Gun Control Act of 1986, which was to improve things, the Democrats who at the last minute added the machinegun ban, the NRA who felt that was a fine trade off to gain the rest of the bill's good features, and President Ronald Regan who signed it into law.

Mostly you have to blame your neighbors who put up with this type of liberal crap.

Since all other NFA items are current production if you are not building and buying Silencers, AOWs, sawed off rifles and shotguns and Destructive devices, then you are not getting in on the cheap good old days of other NFA before the future ban of those items.

So no since you are no longer ignorant it's your fault if you do not follow through with something you can do now legally.

[DiscoRacing]

When I got my first rifle.... I ordered it from Sears & Roebuck...and got it in the mail in two days...


... .Mail,,, as in the mailbox at our farm...

...no FFL... Dont know if they had them back then,,,no background checks,,, no waiting,,, no NICS.. nothing...notta...

[panhapp]

In 1984 I bought a new Rock Island M60 for 1995.00 . Those WERE the good old days. Pan

[boatmonkey82]

I know the deal with the sawed offs and f/a ect but what is so bad about a sbr ' short barrel rifle ' ? seems like it would have less velocity that a long barrel

[rantingredneck]

It's more concealable, which is the same rationale for short barreled shotguns.

[boatmonkey82]

does b.a.t.f.e have nothing better to do , id rather work for the irs

[gew98]

Dave ; As I recall at the time it was a repulican - Bob Dole whom shanked us in the back and of course the demoslobik party ran with it much to their delight. It was called the "DOLE amendment and the good old days sunset was May 1986.

[jimbob86]

does b.a.t.f.e have nothing better to do , id rather work for the irs

IRS? The IRS is proof that there is something lower than whale squeeze. So now there is something lower than even the IRS!

[David Hineline]

Machine Gun Ban: The Hughes Amendment

As debate for FOPA was in its final stages in the House before moving on to the Senate, Rep. William J. Hughes (D-N.J.) proposed several amendments including House Amendment 777 to H.R. 4332 [4] that would ban a civilian from ownership or transfer rights of any fully automatic weapon which was not registered as of May 19, 1986. The amendment also held that any such weapon manufactured and registered before the May 19 cutoff date could still be legally owned and transferred by civilians.
In the morning hours of April 10, 1986, the House held recorded votes on three amendments to FOPA in Record Vote No's 72, 73, and 74. Recorded Vote 72 was on H.AMDT. 776, an amendment to H.AMDT 770 involving the interstate sale of handguns; while Recorded Vote 74 was on H.AMDT 770, involving primarily the easing of interstate sales and the safe passage provision. Recorded Vote 73 was the controversial Hughes Amendment that called for the banning of machine guns. On page 18 of the Congressional Transcript cited to herein, Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.), at the time presiding as Chairman over the proceedings, claimed that the "ayes appeared to have it." Nevertheless, Congressman Sensenbrenner demanded a recorded vote. Record Vote 73 was taken by electronic device; the result was: ayes 124, noes 298, not voting 12.[5] The Hughes Amendment regarding the banning of machine guns was defeated in Record Vote 73. The bill, H.R. 4332, as a whole passed in Record Vote No: 75. Nevertheless, the Senate, in S.B. 49, adopted H.R. 4332 as an amendment to the final bill, which included the defeated Hughes Amendment. It was subsequently passed and signed on May 19, 1986 by President Ronald Reagan to become Public Law 99-308, the Firearms Owners' Protection Act.

[JohnKSa]

You have to blame the NRA who supported the Gun Control Act of 1986, which was to improve things...

In the interest of full disclosure, for those who weren't into guns before the FOPA was passed, please list ALL the effects of the 1986 FOPA.

[JohnKSa]

This is a fairly complete list of the provisions of the 1986 FOPA.

• Makes gun shows viable. The provisions of the FOPA allow Federal Firearms License holders to sell guns at gun shows located in their home state as opposed to only at their place of business.
• Allows individuals not federally licensed as gun dealers to sell their personal firearms as a hobby, not a business, without involving an FFL. Persons making occasional sales or selling all or part of a "personal collection" are expressly excluded from the FFL requirement.
• Clearly defines the criteria that would require a person to have an FFL, thus preventing the BATF from making their own rules. It states that a person who is required to have an FFL must devote time, attention and labor to such dealing as a regular course of trade or business, with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.
• Reduces the recordkeeping required of federally licensed firearms dealers, specifically eliminating recordkeeping of ammunition sales. Prior to the passage of FOPA dealers had to keep track of ammunition sales in much the same way that they are still required track of firearm sales. Ammunition purchasers had to fill out a form or sign a registry to purchase ammunition.
• Repeals the portion of the 1968 Gun Control act prohibiting the sale of ammunition via mail order.
• Allows non-FFL holders to sell ammunition by eliminating the FFL requirement for ammunition sales.
• Allows the importation of non-sporting military surplus type firearms once again.
• Re-Opened interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis.
• Prevents the creation of a registry by the federal government or any of its agencies linking non-NFA firearms to owners.
• Prevents the government from creating a list of gun owners or firearms transactions from dealer records.
• Allows a citizen to transport a firearm from one legal location to another even if the trip requires passing through a jurisdiction where the firearm was illegal. (Safe Passage Law.)
• Raises the burden of proof for violations of federal gun laws considerably, typically requiring proof of intent, not just the existence of a violation. One congressman noted at the time of FOPA passage that around 75% of federal firearms violations at the time were committed by persons “lacking the criminal intent” that FOPA required upon passage. That percentage of violations was also assessed as “constitutionally improper”.
• Restricts the ability of the BATF to conduct inspections of the business premises of federally licensed firearms dealers and prescribes the maximum frequency of inspections. Prior to this restriction BATF could inspect dealers as often as they wished and some dealers claimed they were driven out of business by repeated inspections which prevented them from doing business. After the FOPA was passed the BATF is limited to 1 inspection per year with a followup unless there is a clear pattern of violations.
• Places limits on when an FFL’s records may be seized by the BATF.
• Places limits on when firearms or ammunition from an FFL’s inventory may be seized and how long they can be held without commencement of judicial action.
• Downgrades recordkeeping errors made by FFLs from felonies to misdemeanors.
• Expands the rights of FFL holders during an appeal.
• Provides that an FFL holder’s license may not be revoked based on any criminal allegations where there was a criminal prosecution and the FFL holder was acquitted or the charges were dismissed.
• Requires that the government pay a defendant’s attorney’s fees under certain circumstances in federal firearm related cases.
• Clearly defines a “prohibited person” and adds serious drug offenses to the list of crimes receiving enhanced penalties.
• Provides a means for prohibited persons to get relief of their disability by applying to the Treasury Secretary. Unfortunately this has been largely hamstrung because the program is unfunded.
• Makes it illegal for anyone, not just an FFL to transfer a firearm to a prohibited person.
• Prohibits civilians from possessing full-auto firearms manufactured after May 19, 1986.
• Doubles the penalties for use of a machine gun or silencer in a violent federal felony.
• Expands the definition of 'machine gun' to include those sets of parts or parts that could be used to convert a semiautomatic firearm into a machine gun.

[LinuxHack3r]

Repeals the portion of the 1968 Gun Control act prohibiting the shipment and sale of ammunition through the U.S. Mail.

USPS?

I have always read and heard you cannot do this. Or is it making it ok specifically for private companies to do so, such as UPS, Fedex, etc?

Or, possibly, did it initially mean USPS but has been amended since? Such as a few of the others were in the AWB?

[JohnKSa]

Yup, I believe that's an error. I'll fix it.

[LinuxHack3r]

Wasn't sure. All I know is I'd be one very happy camper if one could use one of the medium "fat rate priority" boxes from USPS for the $10.70 it costs. You could stuff a lot of boxes in their.

[medalguy]

We're getting off track. The OP asked what it was like pre-86 re NFA items. Well I've been around a while so let me chime in. Way back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth you could order Thompsons from several companies, by mail, that had been "deactivated" by pouring lead into the chambers. Later they actually tack welded a rod in the chamber. but they could still be freely purchased. Dewats and deactivated machine guns were not registered at all.

I can recall openly buying machine guns at gun shows in the early 60's. No one really seemed to care, at least in my area. They may have been under the table but they were sure there, and cheap. I can recall buying a .50 M2HB for $350 at one show in 1965 and I registered this gun during the 68 amnesty. I subsequently sold it and now I sure wish I had held on to it.

Parts to convert M1 carbines to M2 were easily purchased and they were cheap. Most MG parts were very cheap and easily obtainable. There didn't seem to be a whole lot of interest in them at that time probably because most prople didn't have the disposable income to buy ammo for them even though the ammo was pretty cheap. I bought two pallet loads of .50 BMG ammo from Ed Agramonte in NYC for .10 a round, new in spam cans, a mix of AP, API, tracer, APIT, and ball. I remember buying .30-06 belted ammo for as little as 2 cents a round because it was in belts and no one wanted to unlink it. I happened to have a handy, speedy delinker.

Ah, those were the days. We'll never see the likes of them again.

After 68 up until 86, interest increased in NFA items. It was possible to locate an old war trophy that hadn't been registered, take it to a manufacturer, and get it papered. That put quite a lot of guns into the registry, and I suspect that if BATFE opened up the registry again for either another amnesty or simply allowed someone to register previously unregistered guns, a heck of a lot more guns would come out of closets. But again, I don't expect that to happen any time soon.

Thanks for the question which allowed me to wander down memory lane again. It was fun.

[JohnKSa]

We're getting off track.

I agree that it was off track, but since it was apparently important to bring up the subject of blame I felt that aspect of the response at least deserved a fair treatment so that perspective was not totally lost.

[egor20]

I always remember this old ad, from Auto Ordnance when people bring up pre-68 and 86

[boatmonkey82]

well ill tell you that pouring lead and a tack weld would in no way deter me from a.... buying one of those conversation guns . be suprised what a good welder and a dremel tool can do