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March 26, 2014, 11:21 PM | #1 |
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Why tumble finished cartridge?
I have been reloading off and on for about 20 years. For the first time tonight, on a mistake after spilling homemade lanolin/99% mixture on a batch of brass, I used case lube on my 9mm brass. The brass fit in so smoothly into the Dillon 1050 press that I thought there was no sizing going on. It was like butter!
With a Mr Bulletfeeder, the output is at least 25% faster because of the smooth operation of the press. I always thought case lube was only for rounds like .223, .308., 30-06, etc. now I'm lubing everything! It's especially easy and cheap because a homemade lanolin/99% alcohol mix is a fraction of the cost of the Dillon or store bought lube. I did some research on case lube and it says to tumble the rounds afterwards. But why? I would think that because the finished rounds were slippery, that they would feed even better. What are the consequences if I do not tumble or wipe the lube off a finished round? I plan on shooting a lot, and I already have about 10,000 total rounds loaded, so the extra work seems a bit tedious. Thanks
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March 26, 2014, 11:36 PM | #2 |
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The issue I'm aware of is as the fired case expands it is good to have it grip the chamber wall to keep it from slamming back against the bolt face.
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March 26, 2014, 11:43 PM | #3 |
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Well, the "why" is to remove the lube, as you no doubt surmised.
Other more knowledgeable experts will chime in. But as I see it, I think it's best if the outside of the case is clean. Lube buildup in the chamber and whatnot can cause problems. Especially if it's gas operated. If it were a good thing for feeding, people would have been doing it for decades now. Guns are designed to run "dry," basically (except slides and and the like). You don't necessarily have to tumble your finished rounds, but I'd give them a wipe with a clean towel if the residue is visible. (I don't progressive load, so I wet tumble with stainless steel pins and dishwash soap after lubing and resizing. This process really gets the brass clean - inside n out; and even the primer pockets.)
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March 27, 2014, 01:27 AM | #4 |
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Would it not gum up your dies more easily as well if you left the excess on? My first thought is that it would.
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March 27, 2014, 01:49 AM | #5 | |
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March 27, 2014, 06:06 AM | #6 |
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Refer to post #2.
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March 27, 2014, 06:44 AM | #7 |
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Refer to posts 2 and 5.
Then there's the issue of whether or not to tumble/vibrate live ammo. |
March 27, 2014, 08:07 AM | #8 |
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I went through the exact same thing about a year ago. The home made case lube made loading my pistol round a breeze to size. What I found out tho is that over time the lanolin gets very sticky. They would not fit into the cylinders on my revolvers and the semi's were constantly jamming up.
Now, after I load a 100 rounds I just throw them in the tumbler for about a half hour and all is well. |
March 27, 2014, 09:20 AM | #9 |
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There's a very good reason why ammo factories clean the lube off their brass cases after they're formed before putting primers, powder and bullets in them. Why would handloaders and reloaders want to do anything different?
If one ammo maker is though to tumble or vibrate their loaded ammo after making it, who is it? |
March 27, 2014, 10:23 AM | #10 |
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I suppose it might be that large tumblers, particularly rotary ones, could damage finished cartridges, causing bullet point dents in the brass, battering soft points flat, and clogging hollow points with media. That last thing may happen with a home tumbler, too.
There is a lengthy test (205 hours vibratory tumbling) reported at AR15.com showing it didn't damage the powder in an obvious way or change firing function of a .40 S&W. It makes some sense that powder can't be too sensitive to this, since it may have to travel long distances while subjected to vibration, particular military ammo. I don't think half an hour in a vibratory tumbler with plain corn cob media to absorb the lube will be likely to hurt a pistol round other than possible hollow point clogging. For precision rifle ammunition, I'd be less sanguine about introducing the additional variable. I'd want to test very carefully for change in accuracy or velocity SD. As to lubing cases for carbide sizing dies, its been mentioned many times in past threads how much easier that makes pulling the handle. Just be sure it doesn't get inside the cases if you are loading on a progressive press.
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March 27, 2014, 10:38 AM | #11 |
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Uh-oh, here we go again!
Tumbling loaded jacketed ammo does not hurt a thing. Forget about the myth that the tumbling degrades or "breaks down" the powder granules. Or the myth that one shell will detonate a primer of another shell. Many tests have been done that show the powder to be unharmed by tumbling inside a brass case. Subsequent testing of tumbled rounds against identical rounds that were not tested, show no loss of accuracy, and no higher velocities. Examination of powder from shells tumbled for 48 hours showed no break-down of the powder granules. AND no evidence of powder "dust!" http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=498890 Above is a test I took part in back in 2010. Two types of powder, flake and ball in my 40 S&W and walkalongs 45 ACP. Both showed no change in performance after 48 hours. Tumbling loaded ammo to get the lube off for 30 minutes is not a problem. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...ghlight=snuffy Another test I did back in 2003 with my 300 WSM.
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March 27, 2014, 10:43 AM | #12 |
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Note that the test I linked to ran a whopping 205 hours with most samples and 300 hours with one. Same apparent result. But it was done with lead bullets in the pistol calibers, and did not require jackets to afford immunity to the bullets. Again, this was vibratory and not rotary tumbling. Falling in a rotary tumbler may cause some bullet battering.
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March 27, 2014, 11:08 AM | #13 |
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Hmmm, tumbling empty brass cleans it. so tumbling loaded brass will clean it too...
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March 27, 2014, 11:38 AM | #14 |
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Tumbling will remove lube, both from the case and from the exposed part of the bullet, where it doesn't serve any useful function.
I don't known if ammo makers tumble brass, but I do know that their ammo with lead bullets that I have bought is completely clean. I wonder how they accomplish that. I am done using ground walnut for such purposes, because its dust sticks to the bullets. Corn cob media works nicely, but must be segregated as gummed up with lube. |
March 27, 2014, 11:46 AM | #15 |
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They could do a wash of some kind.
I tend to clean the brass coming and going. Coming I to get it clean so it does not leave good in the dies. After there is a bit of case lube and sometimes a bit of grit still on the case mouth area. I don't want any goo in the chamber and I like the pretty clean rounds and it gets that last bit of grit off if there. |
March 27, 2014, 01:02 PM | #16 |
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<<<<was thinking bullet lube....Duh!
Thinking no more late night post's?
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March 28, 2014, 08:56 PM | #17 |
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Sounds like a silly waste of time, as is lubing pistol brass (assuming carbide dies). Fine if you have nothing better to do.
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March 28, 2014, 09:06 PM | #18 | ||
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The lube on the cases can collect abrasives that you don't want, and it will cause powder residue to accumulate in the chamber. Both are bad things. If you don't want to tumble, you could always lay them on a towel and lay another towel on top. Rolling them under your hands would remove most of the lube much faster than hand wiping. But I would just tumble them.
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March 29, 2014, 05:29 AM | #19 | |
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March 29, 2014, 06:09 AM | #20 | |
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March 29, 2014, 06:53 AM | #21 | |
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Post 2&5 are correct as far as your question goes. I use case lube on my pistol shells in my progressives to ease the operation, it make my finished OAL much more consistent. I usually get within .002" variance when I use One Shot on my pistol rounds and a lot more variation without it. That's the only reason I use it. I tumble all my plated bullet loads after loading. If I'm using lead bullets with tumble lube, obviously I change my procedure. same with hollow points, unless you like digging media out of the hollow point after words. I only did that once. With rifle cases I lube, resize, tumble and finish loading because of the soft lead tips. |
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March 29, 2014, 07:41 AM | #22 | |
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March 29, 2014, 09:07 AM | #23 |
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Sure Shot, last week I would have agreed that there is no point in lubing pistol brass, but you should really try it. Its so smooth its amazing. Less stress on your wrist and faster output.
I timed my output with lubed cases. With a Mr. Bulletfeeder and a Dillon Auto primer, I finished an entire box of 1000 Berrys Plated bullets in a little over 30 minutes on a Dillon 1050. It's very very fast and so easy on the cranking hand (the Dillon site states a rate of about 1200 per hour, but thats, I'm guessing, without a bullet dropper or lube). After reading these posts, I went to Harbor Freight and bought the large 18 qt tumbler. Its on sale for $169, and they have a 25% off coupon, so thats how i am going to remove the lube. Btw, yesterday, Cheaper than Dirt had a really good deal. 1000 plated Berrys bullets for about $67. The same 115 grain bullets I've been using in my 9mm. Got me a large supply of those. You guys might wanna get over there.
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March 29, 2014, 10:52 AM | #24 |
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Machineguntony;
I don't shoot my pistol/s all that much anymore. In fact I'm not shooting much of anything anymore when it comes right down to it. It's a little early yet for me to get out and burn up some powder here. {2-3 weeks yet before this outside white stuff is gone.} Then I have a couple rifles I worked on having changed out their triggers over the winter I would like to try out first before anything else. Btw if your Dillon is cranking those bullets as fast you say it is. That would Sir would be worth observing. I know I couldn't do the same with my bullet lube. Its just too sticky in its original form. (rcbs case lube-2) I'll have to check around for some lanolin. I think Randyrat at Cast Boolits sells it. I know its not cheap. But. We'll see As far as bullets. Those are pretty good prices. Thanks for commenting the info. |
March 30, 2014, 11:29 AM | #25 | |
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