Guns burnt up in fire.....HELP !!!!!!!!!!!

Riss · November 12, 2000, 11:55 PM

Have two prized Ruger Red Labels and a S&W 645 go up in smoke. Not really sure if they will be replaced by the insurance co. Forearms burnt up in the fire but the butstocks remained, a little charred though. The 645 is still in holster, missing the alluminum backstrap. I assume that it melted. Otherwise they look like they could be fixable. Any idea at which the stainless in the actions of the Rugers or the Stainless 645 would become ruined. The fire does not appear to have melted the stainless or the barrels of the shotguns. I had heard before of 750 degree embrittlement of steel. It think that is the point it can go to . Any ideas if I could rebuild and re-heat treat the guns ???????

------------------
An X is still an X with a Quarter Inch group at 100 yards
With a Quarter Inch Group on the keyboard an X could be - Z,S,D, or C.
I am a quarter inch typist - Please excuse the errors!

Al Thompson · November 16, 2000, 07:24 AM

Riss I think you have a loss there. If I were you, I would contact Ruger and ask them. They have pretty good customer service. The S&W people are a mystery to me, but probably worth a call.

Giz

Art Eatman · November 16, 2000, 12:41 PM

I'd suggest making arrangements to send the guns to the factory. They can check the Rockwell C hardness against loss of temper. And of course replace parts and repair if such is possible.

Art

James K · November 16, 2000, 02:19 PM

I would write them off as scrap and take the insurance settlement. I have tried to restore burned guns and, heat treatment aside, it just is not worth it. The stocks alone will cost more than the usual loss in insurance settlement (which pays used value, not new). So I think you would end up in the hole. Aluminum has a melting point of 933 degrees, although alloys are higher. If aluminum melted, chances are the springs are shot, the heat treatment is gone or very iffy, and if water got to them, the guns are a mass of rust. Forget them.

Jim

Riss · November 18, 2000, 10:59 PM

The whole reason for asking is that I do lots of "light" gunsmithing work, and need to work on my familiarity with these guns. Much better to work on one that does not need to ever get put back together. HOWEVER, the insurance co will write them off as scrap and I can keep them to 'try' to restore if I wish. I figured I might as well try to restore them to working if it's possible. Thanks for the help.- Riss

Jesse168 · November 20, 2000, 12:50 AM

If you take your guns to your local machine shop they can do a rockwell test for you. Especially one of your larger shops. In all probability at no charge. It doesn't take but a minute or two for the test.

Jesse

Art Eatman · November 20, 2000, 11:06 PM

Just to add in a war story: Summer of '52 (That's 1952, Dennis!), my father and cronies were driving slowly, one night, mumbling about going rabbit hunting. A fella running about 85 or so rear-ended the '49 Mercury they were in. Rolled, endo-ed, burned.

In the trunk was my father's Model 70, .220 Swift. The barrel was bent in the crash, and the stock burned badly in the fire. The scope, of course, was plumb ruint.

Winchester put a new stock and barrel on the action; it still shoots...

Damfino, Art

November 18, 2000, 10:59 PM	#5
Riss Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Eastern, PA, USA Posts: 147	the reason I am asking............. The whole reason for asking is that I do lots of "light" gunsmithing work, and need to work on my familiarity with these guns. Much better to work on one that does not need to ever get put back together. HOWEVER, the insurance co will write them off as scrap and I can keep them to 'try' to restore if I wish. I figured I might as well try to restore them to working if it's possible. Thanks for the help.- Riss __________________ An X is still an X with a Quarter Inch group at 100 yards With a Quarter Inch Group on the keyboard an X could be - Z,S,D, or C. I am a quarter inch typist - Please excuse the errors!

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November 12, 2000, 11:55 PM	#1
Riss Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Eastern, PA, USA Posts: 147	Have two prized Ruger Red Labels and a S&W 645 go up in smoke. Not really sure if they will be replaced by the insurance co. Forearms burnt up in the fire but the butstocks remained, a little charred though. The 645 is still in holster, missing the alluminum backstrap. I assume that it melted. Otherwise they look like they could be fixable. Any idea at which the stainless in the actions of the Rugers or the Stainless 645 would become ruined. The fire does not appear to have melted the stainless or the barrels of the shotguns. I had heard before of 750 degree embrittlement of steel. It think that is the point it can go to . Any ideas if I could rebuild and re-heat treat the guns ??????? ------------------ An X is still an X with a Quarter Inch group at 100 yards With a Quarter Inch Group on the keyboard an X could be - Z,S,D, or C. I am a quarter inch typist - Please excuse the errors!

November 16, 2000, 07:24 AM	#2
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Riss I think you have a loss there. If I were you, I would contact Ruger and ask them. They have pretty good customer service. The S&W people are a mystery to me, but probably worth a call. Giz

November 16, 2000, 12:41 PM	#3
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I'd suggest making arrangements to send the guns to the factory. They can check the Rockwell C hardness against loss of temper. And of course replace parts and repair if such is possible. Art

November 16, 2000, 02:19 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I would write them off as scrap and take the insurance settlement. I have tried to restore burned guns and, heat treatment aside, it just is not worth it. The stocks alone will cost more than the usual loss in insurance settlement (which pays used value, not new). So I think you would end up in the hole. Aluminum has a melting point of 933 degrees, although alloys are higher. If aluminum melted, chances are the springs are shot, the heat treatment is gone or very iffy, and if water got to them, the guns are a mass of rust. Forget them. Jim

November 20, 2000, 12:50 AM	#6
Jesse168 Junior Member Join Date: May 22, 2000 Location: Memphis, Tenn. USA Posts: 11	If you take your guns to your local machine shop they can do a rockwell test for you. Especially one of your larger shops. In all probability at no charge. It doesn't take but a minute or two for the test. Jesse

November 20, 2000, 11:06 PM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Just to add in a war story: Summer of '52 (That's 1952, Dennis!), my father and cronies were driving slowly, one night, mumbling about going rabbit hunting. A fella running about 85 or so rear-ended the '49 Mercury they were in. Rolled, endo-ed, burned. In the trunk was my father's Model 70, .220 Swift. The barrel was bent in the crash, and the stock burned badly in the fire. The scope, of course, was plumb ruint. Winchester put a new stock and barrel on the action; it still shoots... Damfino, Art