1923 DWM COMMERCIAL LUGER $950 should i buy? - Page 2

**44 AMP** · February 22, 2015, 03:01 PM

from that list, I only skipped the PPK and M1934 (no real interest)

One thing I have learned about my "grail guns", MR Spock was right when he said "you may find the having is not as pleasurable a thing as the wanting".

I have learned a number of valuable things by having them, though.

and, Whoever said the Broomhandle was "not the most pleasant" shooter, must have been an Englishman!

No one else could get away with that kind of understatement!

RickB · February 25, 2015, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Straight case: Clean and load.

Assuming you have carbide dies, and you are including the flaring of the case mouth as part of "load".

I load a number of bottleneck cases. And several strait cases, and those called "strait" but that are actually tapered.

And while I don't load for .30 Luger, I don't see it being any different than any other bottlenecked case.

If you have to trim (and deburr) every time, you aren't doing something right. CHECK length every time, sure. Trim only when needed.

Yes, straight cases are so much easier, that's why the die sets have 3 (or 4) dies, instead of the 2 used for bottleneck cases.

Carbide dies in a progressive press. One pull of the handle equals one live round, when loading straight-walled cases.
Even if the bottleneck case doesn't have to be trimmed and deburred with every loading, there's still the additional step of lubing the cases, and that lube has to be removed at some point.
And, I still haven't found a source for .309"-.310" bullets, so there's lubing, sizing and cleaning the bullets. too. Apparently, plenty of people are happy loading .308" bullets for the .3095" barrel, but I'm a kill-joy in that respect.

James K · February 25, 2015, 10:17 PM

The C96 was a primitive pistol that happened, through the magic of the Mauser name, to continue in use for decades after its contemporaries had either been radically improved or tossed into that famous "dustbin of history."

It should be significant that the German military wanted nothing to do with it until they were forced by military necessity to buy some.

Jim

mapsjanhere · February 26, 2015, 12:02 PM

I think a lot of the German military's reluctance came from the fact that the pistol was an officer's weapon. And the peace time selection was made to go with your parade uniform, no officer would want to drag that heavy hunk of C96 in the stock around during normal duty. That attitude changed once you were in the trenches and actually needed firepower.

James K · February 26, 2015, 07:18 PM

I know of no indication that the German army's order for Mausers was motivated by any idea of its being superior in the trenches to the standard P.08. It was simply a matter of requirements exceeding supplies of handguns and the military falling back on a source of supply they would otherwise not have utilized.

The same thing happened in the US and Britain. The US bought many thousands of "Model 1917" revolvers, and Britain bought thousands of Spanish revolvers in .455. France, too, bought revolvers and pistols from Spain. Every nation needed handguns, lots of them, the bottom of the barrel was scraped clean.

In the WWI era, the handgun was not exclusively an officer's weapon. Pistols (in all armies) were issued to machinegunners, squad leaders, platoon leaders, messengers, military police, drivers, and many others, including the remaining cavalry units which hadn't "got the word" yet. In the US later, it was to give pistol carriers a more effective weapon that the M1 Carbine was adopted.

Jim

**44 AMP** · February 27, 2015, 03:37 AM

I think a lot of the German military's reluctance came from the fact that the Mauser Broomhandle is a painful piece of crap to shoot!

And they didn't call it Kuhfusspistole because it was graceful or well balanced.

With the stock on it, its another matter. It just about works its way back up to tolerable. If the stock were more rigidly attached, it would be even better, but I've never seen one that while secure, wasn't wobbly.

James K · February 27, 2015, 10:36 AM

As someone said yesterday, you learn something new every day on this site.

I hadn't known that the Germans called the Mauser broomhandle the "cow's foot pistol" but somehow it seems appropriate.

Jim

February 22, 2015, 03:01 PM	#26
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	from that list, I only skipped the PPK and M1934 (no real interest) One thing I have learned about my "grail guns", MR Spock was right when he said "you may find the having is not as pleasurable a thing as the wanting". I have learned a number of valuable things by having them, though. and, Whoever said the Broomhandle was "not the most pleasant" shooter, must have been an Englishman! No one else could get away with that kind of understatement! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 26, 2015, 12:02 PM	#29
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	I think a lot of the German military's reluctance came from the fact that the pistol was an officer's weapon. And the peace time selection was made to go with your parade uniform, no officer would want to drag that heavy hunk of C96 in the stock around during normal duty. That attitude changed once you were in the trenches and actually needed firepower. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

February 27, 2015, 03:37 AM	#31
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,839	I think a lot of the German military's reluctance came from the fact that the Mauser Broomhandle is a painful piece of crap to shoot! And they didn't call it Kuhfusspistole because it was graceful or well balanced. With the stock on it, its another matter. It just about works its way back up to tolerable. If the stock were more rigidly attached, it would be even better, but I've never seen one that while secure, wasn't wobbly. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 25, 2015, 10:17 PM	#28
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The C96 was a primitive pistol that happened, through the magic of the Mauser name, to continue in use for decades after its contemporaries had either been radically improved or tossed into that famous "dustbin of history." It should be significant that the German military wanted nothing to do with it until they were forced by military necessity to buy some. Jim

February 26, 2015, 07:18 PM	#30
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I know of no indication that the German army's order for Mausers was motivated by any idea of its being superior in the trenches to the standard P.08. It was simply a matter of requirements exceeding supplies of handguns and the military falling back on a source of supply they would otherwise not have utilized. The same thing happened in the US and Britain. The US bought many thousands of "Model 1917" revolvers, and Britain bought thousands of Spanish revolvers in .455. France, too, bought revolvers and pistols from Spain. Every nation needed handguns, lots of them, the bottom of the barrel was scraped clean. In the WWI era, the handgun was not exclusively an officer's weapon. Pistols (in all armies) were issued to machinegunners, squad leaders, platoon leaders, messengers, military police, drivers, and many others, including the remaining cavalry units which hadn't "got the word" yet. In the US later, it was to give pistol carriers a more effective weapon that the M1 Carbine was adopted. Jim

February 27, 2015, 10:36 AM	#32
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	As someone said yesterday, you learn something new every day on this site. I hadn't known that the Germans called the Mauser broomhandle the "cow's foot pistol" but somehow it seems appropriate. Jim