Do you know what this is?

thumbtack · August 8, 2004, 03:00 PM

I have this shotgun/ rifle combo. All I know is that it is a double barrel 16 Ga, with I believe to be an 8mm rifle barrel underneath. The only name I can find on it is "Kruppscher Stahl", there are a couple of stamp on it but that is it, the rest is just engravings.

Here are some pictures.

http://www.advantexcom.net/~johntay/...er%20Stahl.htm

chiz45 · August 10, 2004, 12:25 PM

get your translator out!

http://www.kolchuga.ru/st0003.htm

Harley Nolden · August 10, 2004, 01:59 PM

thumbtack:

Your rifle/combo appers to be German, the Kruppstahl is translated to Krupp steel, which is definetly German. The term for this piece is "Drilling" the German word for Tripple, meaning three bbls.

The Germans made these guns from very early on. It aforded them a rifle and a shotgun in one. Most are custom made pieces, as yours appears to be and with very ornate engraving and wood work. These guns are not just ordinary guns and are held at a very high value. I would take it to an established appriaser for value. It ain't cheep

Sometimes a gunmaker would put his mark or name on the gun. This is sometimes located on the water table of the reciever. (Remove the forearm, and open the bbls. They should come off once opened. The water table is the portion that extends from the receiver and is the locking device for the bbls) You should also find the proof marks etc there. Some of these Drillings were made in the U.S. By Baker arms. Yours does not look like a Baker to me.

I looked on the stock of your gun for an acorn, that is the only marking that I know of the Maker. Knew his great grand son. Didn't find it there.

HJN

ENC · August 10, 2004, 11:19 PM

You definetly need to fill us in when you find out more about it.

thumbtack · August 11, 2004, 06:17 AM

Harley,

Could you recommend an appriaser in the Dallas Fort Worth area? I took the forearm off and that were several differ marks and markings. The letters 'K.B." appear, and there are several symbol that has a crown over the letter "G" or over the letter "U". I tried to take a picture of the symbols but that did not work to well.

Enc,

Whatever I find out I will post it here.

Jim Watson · August 11, 2004, 07:58 AM

Those little concealed markings, "crown G", "crown U" and probably the K.B. are German proof marks. We might could use them to get a very general idea of when your Drilling was made, but no information on the maker.

That is an unusual design of Drilling, apparently striker fired with the heads of the strikers protruding out the back of the receiver. Don't think I have seen the like, and there are a LOT of odd design European guns from the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

There are several 8mm cartridges that were used in Drillings. It is certainly not an 8x57 Mauser and might not even be an 8x57R (rimmed.)

K80Geoff · August 11, 2004, 09:01 AM

Beautifull!!! Very interesting and unusual piece.

Try perusing this website, may give you a lead to info on your gun:http://www.gunshop.com/

My uneducated guess is that your gun is what is known as a "Guild" gun. Built in Germany prior to WW1. Guns were built by several small shops each shop specializing in a particular part of the gunmaking operation. One shop would make the action, another would strike and fit the Barrels and still another would fit the stock. But then what do I know

(Too many hours reading "Double Gun Journal", a little knowledge can be dangerous).

Be verry carefull with the rifle barrel, especially if it turns out to be 8X57. There are two different 8X57 rounds and older guns cannot handle the newer 8X57. If I can find the article I will post it.

Good luck, and it is a beautiful gun.

Johnny Guest · August 12, 2004, 12:45 PM

thumbtack, you might try - - -

Mike's Gun Room, in Richardson, just a few blocks off US 75/Central, near Belt Line 972-994-9298. Mike Brown handles a lot of estate dispositions and is very knowledgeable about a wide variety of firearms and militaria. Though not a specialist in drillings, he was interested when I called and asked for someone to help you.

Richard Neinast is a private individual, not a dealer/appraiser, but collects guns of this sort. His cell phone is 972-342-7769. Mike recommends him, and says y'all can meet at his shop if you wish.

Best,
Johnny

thumbtack · August 13, 2004, 04:41 PM

Thanks Johnny,

I will contact them next week. I have to go out of town this weekend, but I will contact them on Monday.

dfaugh · August 21, 2004, 09:46 AM

can't add anything as far as information...but just wanted to say that is truly a thing of beauty!

August 8, 2004, 03:00 PM	#1
thumbtack Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Garland, Texas Posts: 724	Do you know what this is? I have this shotgun/ rifle combo. All I know is that it is a double barrel 16 Ga, with I believe to be an 8mm rifle barrel underneath. The only name I can find on it is "Kruppscher Stahl", there are a couple of stamp on it but that is it, the rest is just engravings. Here are some pictures. http://www.advantexcom.net/~johntay/...er%20Stahl.htm __________________ Nothing to see here, move along.

August 11, 2004, 06:17 AM	#5
thumbtack Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Garland, Texas Posts: 724	Harley, Could you recommend an appriaser in the Dallas Fort Worth area? I took the forearm off and that were several differ marks and markings. The letters 'K.B." appear, and there are several symbol that has a crown over the letter "G" or over the letter "U". I tried to take a picture of the symbols but that did not work to well. Enc, Whatever I find out I will post it here. __________________ Nothing to see here, move along.

August 11, 2004, 09:01 AM	#7
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	Beautifull!!! Very interesting and unusual piece. Try perusing this website, may give you a lead to info on your gun:http://www.gunshop.com/ My uneducated guess is that your gun is what is known as a "Guild" gun. Built in Germany prior to WW1. Guns were built by several small shops each shop specializing in a particular part of the gunmaking operation. One shop would make the action, another would strike and fit the Barrels and still another would fit the stock. But then what do I know (Too many hours reading "Double Gun Journal", a little knowledge can be dangerous). Be verry carefull with the rifle barrel, especially if it turns out to be 8X57. There are two different 8X57 rounds and older guns cannot handle the newer 8X57. If I can find the article I will post it. Good luck, and it is a beautiful gun. __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

August 12, 2004, 12:45 PM	#8
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Try these - - thumbtack, you might try - - - Mike's Gun Room, in Richardson, just a few blocks off US 75/Central, near Belt Line 972-994-9298. Mike Brown handles a lot of estate dispositions and is very knowledgeable about a wide variety of firearms and militaria. Though not a specialist in drillings, he was interested when I called and asked for someone to help you. Richard Neinast is a private individual, not a dealer/appraiser, but collects guns of this sort. His cell phone is 972-342-7769. Mike recommends him, and says y'all can meet at his shop if you wish. Best, Johnny

August 13, 2004, 04:41 PM	#9
thumbtack Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Garland, Texas Posts: 724	Thanks Johnny, I will contact them next week. I have to go out of town this weekend, but I will contact them on Monday. __________________ Nothing to see here, move along.

August 10, 2004, 12:25 PM	#2
chiz45 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2000 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 197	get your translator out! http://www.kolchuga.ru/st0003.htm

August 10, 2004, 01:59 PM	#3
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	thumbtack: Your rifle/combo appers to be German, the Kruppstahl is translated to Krupp steel, which is definetly German. The term for this piece is "Drilling" the German word for Tripple, meaning three bbls. The Germans made these guns from very early on. It aforded them a rifle and a shotgun in one. Most are custom made pieces, as yours appears to be and with very ornate engraving and wood work. These guns are not just ordinary guns and are held at a very high value. I would take it to an established appriaser for value. It ain't cheep Sometimes a gunmaker would put his mark or name on the gun. This is sometimes located on the water table of the reciever. (Remove the forearm, and open the bbls. They should come off once opened. The water table is the portion that extends from the receiver and is the locking device for the bbls) You should also find the proof marks etc there. Some of these Drillings were made in the U.S. By Baker arms. Yours does not look like a Baker to me. I looked on the stock of your gun for an acorn, that is the only marking that I know of the Maker. Knew his great grand son. Didn't find it there. HJN

August 10, 2004, 11:19 PM	#4
ENC Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Location: Grand Lake, OK Posts: 658	You definetly need to fill us in when you find out more about it.

August 11, 2004, 07:58 AM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Those little concealed markings, "crown G", "crown U" and probably the K.B. are German proof marks. We might could use them to get a very general idea of when your Drilling was made, but no information on the maker. That is an unusual design of Drilling, apparently striker fired with the heads of the strikers protruding out the back of the receiver. Don't think I have seen the like, and there are a LOT of odd design European guns from the late 19th and early 20th centuries. There are several 8mm cartridges that were used in Drillings. It is certainly not an 8x57 Mauser and might not even be an 8x57R (rimmed.)

August 21, 2004, 09:46 AM	#10
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	Sorry.. can't add anything as far as information...but just wanted to say that is truly a thing of beauty! __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

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