The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 13, 2011, 04:38 PM   #1
mconfluence
Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2009
Posts: 63
shilo sharps 45-110

I am not sure were to post my question so here it is.I have a shilo sharps 45-110.I owned it new since around 1985-87 never fired YET.It was from the company in Big Timber montana.What powder can I use?Black powder,triple 7,or modern powder?Molding some bullets so they are lead no copper jacket.If anyone is usingcan you tell me your measurements of powder.I am not comp shooting only targets and deer.Any help would be greatly appreciated.Thank you in advanced.
mconfluence is offline  
Old March 13, 2011, 04:47 PM   #2
steveno
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Minden , Nebraska
Posts: 1,407
get a copy of Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" and I think all of your questions will be answered. it is a good read even if you don't have this kind of rifle
steveno is offline  
Old March 13, 2011, 05:15 PM   #3
4EVERM-14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2006
Location: Pennsy
Posts: 720
Quote:
get a copy of Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West"
+1
I shoot a 45-70 but a good friend shoots a 45-110. His load is a 500gr cast bullet and somewhere around 85 to 95 gr of "F" blackpowder. He also fills with corn meal.
__________________
David
NRA Benefactor Member
Distinguished Rifleman #731
Presidents 100
4EVERM-14 is offline  
Old March 13, 2011, 06:11 PM   #4
Slamfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 5,261
I have been using AA5744 a bulky smokeless powder in my 45/70's. According to Accurate Arms that powder was developed with the big blackpowder era cases in mind.

Blackpowder is a totally different game, none of the smokless rules apply apparently, and I have been told, that once you go black, you will never come back.

Beware....:
__________________
If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.
Slamfire is offline  
Old March 13, 2011, 06:30 PM   #5
mconfluence
Member
 
Join Date: November 7, 2009
Posts: 63
Thanks everyone.My main question is am I limited to nothing but black powder?
mconfluence is offline  
Old March 13, 2011, 08:33 PM   #6
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,492
The Shiloh is a good strong rifle.
Lyman 49th has smokeless load data for .45-2 7/8" (.45-110 by conventional notation.)
Black is demanding loading but rewarding. My .38-55 has not smelled smokeless in 15 years and my .40-65 has never been shot with anything but black. Fake powders like Pyrodex or 777 will not do what real black will.

You will get the best results by casting and closely inspecting your own bullets, once you learn how. But I have done good shooting with Montanna Bullet Works.
http://www.montanabulletworks.com/

Cleaning is not the Usual Internet Horror Story with a No 6 washtub of boiling water. I clean mine on the range while the fouling is still warm and soft using Windex and Ballistol. I reclean at home with M-Pro 7 and Ballistol. Might be 15 minutes each sesson.
You do have to wash your brass, though. I tumble it in wet ceramic media.

Mike Venturino's book is a good resource.

Shiloh has their own board and it is a wealth of information.
http://shilohrifle.com/forums/index.php
Jim Watson is offline  
Old March 17, 2011, 10:10 PM   #7
sharps4fun
Junior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2011
Posts: 1
I have been shooting a Shilo Sharps now for 4 years just for fun. I use 85 grs of Shockley Gold by volume with a milk carton wad I cut my self with a punch. I use a 500 grn lead cast bullet from a RCBS 45-500-BPS mold. I lube the bullet with a beewax and seat just in front of the first lube ring. You can shoot this all day and not get bruised. You will still want to clean after about 15 to 20 rounds as the group will open.
sharps4fun is offline  
Old March 18, 2011, 08:56 AM   #8
Roaddog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2010
Location: East central Minnesota
Posts: 202
Thanks Jim, that Shilo site is real good one. I just sined up.
Roaddog is offline  
Old March 18, 2011, 11:44 AM   #9
Gator Weiss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2007
Posts: 117
The 45-110 is one hell of a round. Easy to load.

You can use "F" or "FF" in those cases. You can use Pyrodex CTG. You might even find some smokeless loadings for good old Hercules Reloader 7. Personally, I would use the black or use the Pyrodex, with old fashioned leaden bullets with no jackets.

You dont want air space in the cases, nor do you want a "compressed" powder charge when you load black powder rounds.

In the grocery store, you can find a boxed hot serial called "cream of wheat" that works well in reloading black powder cartridges, as a non-explosive air-space filler. You may also use cornmeal. Many people seem to prefer the C of W. I have used both. I dont know why C of W is preferred many shooters. Maybe because it is in a box as opposed to a sack and it sits on a shelf next to your powders just fine.

You dont need a press, but certainly may use a press. You can get yourswelf a compact boxed LEE handloader kit in 45-110. Comes in a little red plastic box and some come in a black and red cardboard box. The kit comes with a charge table, measured powder dipper, decapper, sizer and seating jig. You load on a piece of scrap 2x4 wood block on your kitchen table top, using a cheap, small wooden or acrylic mallet to tap cases and primers. The kits are great for loading ten or twenty cartridges at a time, and the cost is usally under 30.00. They last a lifetime. You might find some smokeless powder loads for this cartridge, and that is fine to do. But dont use the C of W or cornmeal in the smokeless loadings. And, I would not use copper jacket bullets with black powder or pyrodex loads. Use only lead bullets, properly sized at .457 or .458 for the black powder or pyrodex loads. Save your jacketed bullets for the smokeless loadings.

You can buy lead bullets, sometimes with a brass gas-check on the bottom, and sometimes without. You can also put round-ball of .454 to .458 in dia in those cases if you want to. The gas-check lead bullets are OK for smokeless loadings if you want to do that. Traditionally, the cartridge was designed for black powder.

You might also get yourself a scale or a Lee Dipper Set. The dipper set is yellow or red plastic powder dippers of various sizes and it comes with a cardboard slide-rule / sliding-table to assist you in measuring out charges.

If you are using black powder substitute, like Pyrodex CTG (THE SINGLE "f" substitute) use the same BULK RATE as the black powder, but DO NOT USE THE SAME ACTUAL WEIGHT !!!! If you are using a dipper set, then you are measuring a bulk-rate charge. If you are using a gravity scale, then you are using actual weight. 70 GRAINS OF BLACK POWDER IN ACTUAL WEIGHT IS NOT THE SAME AMOUNT OF POWDER AS IN 70 GRAINS IN ACTUAL WEIGHT OF SUBSTITUTE BLACK POWDER ! ONLY BULK RATE IS THE SAME IN THAT WORLD.

Your rifle will fire very well with 60 grains of FF black powder and pinch of some C of W or corn meal on top of the powder o take up the air space, loaded underneath a 400 grain cast lead bullet. It will easily drop a deer or black bear. It will fire comfortably on the range. If you are going to shoot long-range competition, you have that wonderfully long 45-110 case to increase your loadings of powder to get more power and distance.

Load a 400 to 500 grain lead bullet over 110 grains of "F" or "FF" if you want to. That works very well. Recoil bites a little, and there is a nice big BOOM and a cloud of smoke. That bullet will really reach out there for a black powder round. There are also some 550 grain lead bullets out there you could use as well. Watch that you are not compressing your powder charge when you do this. Watch that you are not leaving an air-space between your powder and your bullet. Dont stuff oversized bullets into those cases. .457 or .458 is probably going to be the max diameter you would need to use.

If you use an airspace filler like cornmeal or cream of wheat, dont put it inside of the casing on top of the primer touch-hole. Your primer may not get your powder ignited or it may cause some delay or hang-fires. Your filler goes in on top of your powder, and just before your bullet goes in.

Dont crimp those cases if you are just firing on the range. Your brass will last longer. If you are making hunting loads that will get moved around and kicked around in your possible bag or pocket, then crimp those so the bullet doesnt get pushed in compressing the powder or so it doesnt fall out of the casing.

You have a very decent rifle. If I had one, I personally would never sell or trade it. That is definitely a KEEPER ! Probably one of the best rifles to own.

Last edited by Gator Weiss; March 18, 2011 at 11:57 AM.
Gator Weiss is offline  
Old October 23, 2011, 08:23 PM   #10
wsboxcar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2011
Posts: 2
45-110 crazy

I bought a 6 year wait -45-110,,, cost $3260.00 I bought brass, black powder, dies ect.--set up reloading house ( reloaded for 40 plus years) and got the biggest (let-down) from any gun that I ever bought. This 74 shot NO.1(dead on-six inches low) NO.2 (six inches low two FEET to the right) NO.3 (six inches low two FEET to the left)----that is a FOUR foot spread at 80 Yards...I bought every black powder made in the U.S. and Europe---All of the moulds from 300 thru 550 grains. Kick was just a word..This gun kicked harder than my 10 gague and I dont flinch on trigger pull..I kept the manufacturer informed and they were GREAT in Every conservation. This unit is guarenteed for my life. I shot the 74 over 900 times and all of a sudden It didnt kick...It grouped a 3/4 inch at 80 yards. I put in some LYMAN schmidtsers. This crazy 74 shot a one-holer at 50 yards--3 shot group, next was at 100 yards--shot under a 1 inch---still have the target...I told the story simply to say the following:::This 74 groups consistantly with whatever I feed it,--Black powder or Accurate arms 5744. I shoot 36.5 grains for copper or the gas-checked bullets. Manufacturer said that the FREE_BORE was not perfect. It*s now -no kick- and extremely fun to shoot
wsboxcar is offline  
Old October 23, 2011, 08:31 PM   #11
wsboxcar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: October 23, 2011
Posts: 2
45-110 crazy

I bought a 6 year wait -45-110,,, cost $3260.00 I bought brass, black powder, dies ect.--set up reloading house ( reloaded for 40 plus years) and got the biggest (let-down) from any gun that I ever bought. This 74 shot NO.1(dead on-six inches low) NO.2 (six inches low two FEET to the right) NO.3 (six inches low two FEET to the left)----that is a FOUR foot spread at 80 Yards...I bought every black powder made in the U.S. and Europe---All of the moulds from 300 thru 550 grains. Kick was just a word..This gun kicked harder than my 10 gague and I dont flinch on trigger pull..I kept the manufacturer informed and they were GREAT in Every conservation. This unit is guarenteed for my life. I shot the 74 over 900 times and all of a sudden It didnt kick...It grouped a 3/4 inch at 80 yards. I put in some LYMAN schmidtsers. This crazy 74 shot a one-holer at 50 yards--3 shot group, next was at 100 yards--shot under a 1 inch---still have the target...I told the story simply to say the following:::This 74 groups consistantly with whatever I feed it,--Black powder or Accurate arms 5744. I shoot 36.5 grains for copper or the gas-checked bullets. Manufacturer said that the FREE_BORE was not perfect. It*s now -no kick- and extremely fun to shoot
wsboxcar is offline  
Old October 23, 2011, 09:33 PM   #12
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 8,276
I can recomend a bit more to read:

First,I also recomend Mike Venturino's book.

There is another author who has written extensively on all aspects of black powder cartridge shooting.His name is Paul Matthews.IMO,there is a wealth of knowledge and experience in his books.....occasionally his style makes my eyes roll around in my head.There is a large quantity of rich ore.You must pan through his ore,swish it around some,and see what you find.Still,recomendable.

An old book,is by Ned Roberts,title resembles something like "The Breech Loading Black Powder Rifle" or? close.

SPG bullet lubricant sells a Great little booklet for a beginning black powder shooter.It helps explain the importance of the bullet lube to success,and offers a good chapter for many cartridges and load data.I would call this a must have.And,the right bullet lube is critical.There are those that argue SPG is expensive,or they may have a lube that works better,OK,but to get started,SPG is an excellent choice.

There is a online/catalogue outfit that supports BPCR shooting:Buffalo Arms.
Check them out.

There is a great magazine,with a lot of good vendor sources,"Black Powder Cartridge News"

You have a fine rifle!!I'm glad you are going to shoot it!
HiBC is offline  
Old October 26, 2011, 10:39 AM   #13
Jbar4Ranch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 1999
Location: Near Helena, Montana
Posts: 1,719
From Shiloh's Web site:

NOTE: We do not recommend that smokeless powder handloads be used in the large volume blackpowder cartridges of the 1870s. There have been reports of excessive pressures, even detonations, happening when too little smokeless powder is loaded in large-capacity cartridges. The big blackpowder rounds were meant to be loaded with blackpowder, and they perform better with blackpowder. Therefore if you desire to be a smokeless powder Sharps shooter, stay with those calibers for which smokeless powder ammunition is readily available.
__________________
Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced...

SASS 47015
Jbar4Ranch is offline  
Old November 1, 2011, 09:48 PM   #14
JacqueEagonSr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2011
Location: Dallas, conveniently located near Texas
Posts: 10
wsboxcar posted " Manufacturer said that the FREE_BORE was not perfect.".
What's FREE_BORE ????? and What changed that suddenly made the firearm accurate?? Did I miss something??
__________________
If you know how many guns you own, you don't own enough . . .
JacqueEagonSr is offline  
Old November 1, 2011, 10:26 PM   #15
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,166
Quote:
nor do you want a "compressed" powder charge when you load black powder rounds.
Why not?

I have the .45-110's slightly bigger brother--a C. Sharps 45-120.

Here it is...



And here is the ammunition...



500 grain bullet cast from pure lead, lubed with SPG. I load these on Goex 1F, 120 grains, compressed .50 inch. One .030 overpowder wad, and a light roll crimp on the finished product. I used to use a grease cookie as well, but I found that I don't need it when using groove-lubed bullets.
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.06215 seconds with 8 queries