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Old August 7, 2014, 10:04 PM   #26
Glenn E. Meyer
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Nice article! Interestingly or sadly one of the major instructors who taught a great snubby class is giving it up for lack of interest.

You see lots of snubbies at shows and stores but I think they are bought by folk who just drop them into pocket or purse and don't worry about training.

On the other hand, snubby competitions are springing up in some locales.
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Old August 13, 2014, 02:51 PM   #27
Mike_Fontenot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeager106

I often carry a Smith ProSeries M-60 3" in .357 and don't feel undergunned.
It's a reall hoot to shoot and quite accurate.
I've got that same model ... very nice gun. I've recently bought (after a close, eye-to-eye bear encounter) its big brother ... a S&W69 4-1/4" 5-shot L-Frame .44mag ... it looks pretty much like a scaled-up S&W60-15 Pro, although it's quite a bit bigger than I expected it to be. Surprisingly, I've found that I can conceal-carry it pretty well in a homemade under-the-shirt vertical shoulder holster (like I've used for several years with my 10mm 1911), although the longer grip bulges my shirt a bit more than my 1911, and requires a lot of junk in my shirt pocket to disguise the bulge (but I'd be carrying all that stuff anyway, so no real penalty for me).
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Old August 14, 2014, 05:49 AM   #28
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Ed Lovett wrote a thoughtful and well researched book on self defense titled The Snubby Revolver: The ECQ, Backup, and Concealed Carry Standard

have you not read it, I highly recommend you obtain a copy. It echos much of what is said in the article in the OP.

I obtained my first concealed weapons permit from Washington State 25 years ago and have carried a variety of handguns over the years, both revolvers and automatics.

Yet, my preference has been and remains the snubby .357, with the .340pd my every day carry for about the last decade.

Desk, Truck, Pocket:



1952 Centennial. 60 years perfecting personal defense.





Last edited by trigger643; August 14, 2014 at 06:25 AM.
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Old August 15, 2014, 09:07 PM   #29
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Have owned a lot of guns over the years and I still prefer a S&W J frame revolver for everyday carry.
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Old August 15, 2014, 09:40 PM   #30
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What about K-Frames?

I've been lurking this post for a bit. I'm a wheelgun guy.

The one thing that digs at me just a bit is whenever there's talk of carry revolvers, the discussion always fixates on 5-shot J-frames and the like (LCR, etc.). I don't care for them. I've owned a Smith Model 60 for 30 years and have never learned how to shoot it well. And I'm a pretty good shot, modesty aside. Further, although I don't see a lot of need for massive firepower for CCW, there's something about having only 5 shots that doesn't set well with me. A sixth round makes a big difference in my mind (I know, it's psychological).

Here in California, CCW holders may put three specific guns on their permit. One of mine is an L-frame 686 3" bbl. My other two are semi-autos, but I am most confident carrying my revolver. It is, however, large. I really wish Smith made a six-shot 357 just like my L-frame, except in a K-frame. Or to phrase it another way: a model 66 with a full underlug 3" bbl. That would be sweet. It'd be a little smaller than what I carry now, yet still still have just enough bulk to absorb some recoil. It would fill the void between the J-frame (which I can't shoot worth a darn) and the lumbering L-frame.

I feel better now
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Old August 15, 2014, 10:20 PM   #31
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I couldn't master the J Frame either

If six rounds in a snub is your wish, the Ruger SP101 in 327 Fed Mag is an interesting option. The recoil is snappy, but not unmanageable. 327 FM ammo is pretty hot, and even though there are detractors of the round, it would be hard to prove the Speer 115 gr. Gold Dot wouldn't be as effective as a 357 125 gr. hollow point.
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Old August 15, 2014, 11:58 PM   #32
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Revolvers work period

I have autos heck I even have a .44 Automag but one of the guns that I carry the most is my hundred year old Ivar Johnson in .38 S&W. I hand load so I have no worries about my SD ammo not working. I find it offensive that so many people think the techno crap will save their butt instead of plain ol practice.
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Old August 16, 2014, 08:47 AM   #33
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Nick,

I once owned a 66, round butt, 2.5". They are common. There are a number of them on GB at this moment, both NIB and used.
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Old August 16, 2014, 11:18 AM   #34
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There is also the fixed-sight Model 65, which was widely available with a 3" barrel. Prices are rising on these.

The LadySmith version of the 3" M65 has a full underlug and a light, smooth action. I'd take this girl anywhere, if I had one:

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Old August 16, 2014, 11:27 AM   #35
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Quote:
A big reason the military chose semi-autos is because they function more reliably when filthy or abused.
I'd say it's more like, they have more capacity and can be reloaded much more quickly (assuming you have a full mag waiting at the ready to swap in), despite the fact that they are much more complicated and less reliable. That's especially true when you have to take them apart to clean them, and can lose or damage small parts. Lugers are a good example, famously susceptible to dirt in the mechanisms and losing small parts, yet they were used by many military and police forces for 40+ years - can't be because they were reliable. And since the parts are numbered, you can tell when parts were replaced because the originals were lost - it's unusual to find one now with matching numbers.
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Old August 16, 2014, 11:45 AM   #36
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Quote:
The LadySmith version of the 3" M65 has a full underlug and a light, smooth action. I'd take this girl anywhere, if I had one.
I would too. That's a sweet piece.

The problem Obambulate (and trigger643), is that I live in California. So the only way I can legally purchase one these is if it's a private party, California resident seller. None are allowed to come in from out of the state.

I actually like carrying my L-frame. I don't mind the weight or bulkiness. It's just that I need an extra layer of clothing to conceal it, and here in sunny California, that means that I can realistically carry it only a few months a year.
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Old August 16, 2014, 01:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

I actually like carrying my L-frame. I don't mind the weight or bulkiness. It's just that I need an extra layer of clothing to conceal it, and here in sunny California, that means that I can realistically carry it only a few months a year.
I carry my L-Frame .44mag M69 full-time under a light, short-sleeve shirt this time of year (and the rest of the year also, under heavier flannel shirts) ... see my previous post. But concealment DOES require carrying some stuff in my left shirt pocket, to disguise the bulge from the butt of the grip ... that would probably be a show-stopper for many (most?) people. My 1911 creates less of a bulge, but still needs the pocket bulge for good concealment.

It IS remarkable, and somewhat surprising to me, that it is actually possible to conceal-carry a big, powerful .44mag (with good, not just legal concealment), under a light short-sleeve shirt ... I wasn't counting on being able to do that, when I bought it.
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Old August 16, 2014, 05:10 PM   #38
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Concealment

For summer carry, my usual attire is a t-shirt with a button up short sleeve over it. With two covering layers, my carry guns pretty much disappear. In this configuration, my L-frame is for the most part, hidden - but, there is some printing.

So it depends on where I'm going in the summer. I'll carry my L-frame if I'm going to my grocery store or my LGS; or any other places that seem a little more firearm friendly. This is California. Things are a little different here. If it's - say - a coffee shop, or a mall, I'm going to go for maximum concealment and carry my compact 9mm that day.

Two weeks ago, I was carrying my 9mm at Pismo Beach - completely hidden, mind you; yet I was still very nervy about it. I don't live there (I live 350 miles away), but the place reeks with a lack of appreciation for one's right to carry, shall I say. It's not difficult to find such an atmosphere here in the once-great Golden State.

The winter is different. I wear a Polo or color t-shirt, with a wind-breaker or coat over. Concealment is thorough at that point.
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Old August 16, 2014, 06:10 PM   #39
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I'm surprised that you can even get a permit in California at all ... It's been my impression that none of the sheriffs in counties that contain any cities will issue permits (except for the well connected) ... i.e., I thought only rural counties had 2nd-Amendment-respecting sheriffs. Glad to hear it's not as bad as I thought.
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Old August 16, 2014, 06:41 PM   #40
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(I'm not a lawyer. The proceeding is how I understand the law in California to the best of my knowledge, and is not necessarily accurate.)

In California, CCW permits are issued by the County Sheriff (and I believe, some city police departments have the power too). They must follow the state guidelines; and they also have the discretion to impose their own rules as well (for instance, my Sheriff doesn't allow rimfire guns). The County Sheriff also has the authority to pull any permit for any reason - or no reason at all.

There are - amazingly - a lot of County Sheriff's in Ca who believe in the right to self-protection; particularly here in northern Ca. Scott Brown, the Sacramento County Sheriff, is among them. Sacramento is the capitol city of nearly 500,000 (1.4M in the county). I know several Sac county residents with CCW's. I live in a neighboring county that is particularly conservative - with an excellent Sheriff.

Ironically, in a way, California law is more lax than Texas. If you live in a county of less than 200K residents, and you are in that county at the time, and hold a CCW, you may open carry. Now that's the law as I understand it. In practice, I seriously doubt there is any open carrying going on here in Ca. That's just the wording of the law (which I have read for myself). I understand that Texas is not an open carry state (but is far less restrictive overall, of course).
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Old August 16, 2014, 07:14 PM   #41
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So, IF your sheriff issues you a permit, is it good anywhere in the state, even in downtown LA? I'm guessing not. I think one of the most important parts of our (Colorado) CCW law is that sub-state authorities like cities, or counties, cannot make the CCW laws more restrictive than the state laws. In particular, even Denver can't prohibit concealed-carry by permit-holders (they tried at first, but were slapped down).

Colorado's CCW laws are better than most other states (but the current Democrat powers-that-be would VERY much like to change that (and they have already succeeded to some extent (mag limits, primarily)). In one respect your laws are better, though: we can't carry in K-12 schools. When I got my CCW (before our state shall-issue law was passed), there was no such restriction on me, but now there is ... that onerous provision was insisted upon by our state governor at the time ... he refused to sign the law unless that provision was added.
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Old August 16, 2014, 11:22 PM   #42
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I carry these two TaurusĀ® Mdl 85 Ultra-LiteĀ® 38 Specials every waking moment of every day.....


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Old August 17, 2014, 08:19 AM   #43
Nick_C_S
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Quote:
IF your sheriff issues you a permit, is it good anywhere in the state, even in downtown LA?
Once the permit is issued, it's good for the entire state (and many other states recognize CA's permit) - even downtown LA. But - there are firearm unfriendly areas and I suppose downtown LA would be one of them. I know San Francisco is; and probably my aforementioned Pismo Beach. I'm sure there's many others.

These are places - while not technically illegal to carry - are probably places where you want to make sure you are thoroughly concealed; or even, consider not carrying at all.
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Old August 17, 2014, 09:29 AM   #44
Mike_Fontenot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

Once the permit is issued, it's good for the entire state (and many other states recognize CA's permit) - even downtown LA.
Better than I thought ... thanks for the info.
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Old August 17, 2014, 10:59 AM   #45
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Quote:

The LadySmith version of the 3" M65 has a full underlug and a light, smooth action. I'd take this girl anywhere, if I had one:
Pretty much the same gun I carried for years. The only thing I did was to change the grips out since the smooth rosewood looked nice, but sucked for shooting. It was a sweet revolver.
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