The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > General Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 12, 2013, 09:58 PM   #1
RamItOne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2011
Posts: 990
Ammo quality going down?

Went to a new range, they don't allow steel cased ammo so I couldn't bring in my cheap Russian crap .223
I was forced to spend 16.99 on a box of American eagle. I've put 1,000s of rounds through my AR, almost exclusively Russian/soviet block steel - monarch, Tul and wolf. Never once a failure. Had 3 of 10 not fire. !!!!
Had real nice deep dents in the middle of the primer. Found a box of federal in my bag, perfect 20 for 20.
Just wondering if anyone has noticed a drop in QC during the shortage. I'm upset that now I can't say I've ever had a misfire in my AR.
__________________
M&P- the other dark meat

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rtant/DJyvnHz0
RamItOne is offline  
Old August 12, 2013, 10:40 PM   #2
ripnbst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 1,552
Ammo quality going down?

What is your firing pin in your AR made of? I think that Russian ammo typically has harder primers. If that is usually what you shoot in high volume the. Maybe you have worn your FP over time. They don't sell titanium firing pins for nothing.
ripnbst is offline  
Old August 12, 2013, 11:20 PM   #3
ljnowell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Posts: 274
Interesting that the AE didnt work and federal; did. AE is made by federal.
ljnowell is offline  
Old August 13, 2013, 10:26 AM   #4
Bullcamp82834
Member
 
Join Date: July 31, 2013
Location: Buffalo, WY
Posts: 94
Still scratching my head over your range banning steel case ammo.

AP rounds I understand, steel jacketed bullets I get, tracers definitely.

But steel case rounds with regular lead bullets ??????
Bullcamp82834 is offline  
Old August 13, 2013, 12:09 PM   #5
Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2012
Location: Oh, Jesus.
Posts: 226
Steel cased ammo

"Steel cased ammo typically has steel core bullets (and is therefore armor piercing"

Thats what my local range officers say anyways.
Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret is offline  
Old August 13, 2013, 12:44 PM   #6
ripnbst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 1,552
Ammo quality going down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Skrumpledonk Ret View Post
"Steel cased ammo typically has steel core bullets (and is therefore armor piercing"

Thats what my local range officers say anyways.
Couldn't be more wrong. The reason is because the way they test the ammo to see if it is safe (to make sure there is no steel in it) is with a magnet. If it picks up the round, you can't shoot it. With a steel cased round it doesn't work because the magnet will always pickup the case. Since they can't tell they play it safe and tell you that you can't shoot it.

To say steel cased ammo also usually means the rounds are AP is a crock.
ripnbst is offline  
Old August 13, 2013, 10:43 PM   #7
Yung.gunr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 11, 2010
Location: Phoenix area
Posts: 1,442
Yup, a lot of places require you to pass the magnet test... The steel case will always fail, therefore you can't use it...

Unfortunately I haven't gone shooting since Feb so I haven't seen any decrease in quality. My dad bought a bunch of remanufactured ammo that he hasn't had as good of luck with as I have with my Tulammo.
Yung.gunr is offline  
Old August 13, 2013, 11:00 PM   #8
gatorshark
Junior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2013
Posts: 14
Ammo quality going down?

Since Feb? You poor soul...
gatorshark is offline  
Old August 13, 2013, 11:34 PM   #9
jimbob86
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 8,722
It does stand to reason that if a manufacturer will not spend any extra money on brass cases, why would he spend any extra money on guilding metal jackets?

Steel cases and jackets = lowest bidder.
jimbob86 is offline  
Old August 14, 2013, 12:29 AM   #10
bamaranger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2009
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 8,273
.223

I've been working with my MK. X Mini-Mauser in .223 a bit lately and started having what I though was accuracy problems due to a stock bedding issue. The W-W "Ranger" 55 gr PSP's that normally did quite well, would barely break 3 MOA. And some W-W white box FMJ stuff was worse.

Fortunately I shot some groups w/ match grade factory (Rem 62 gr) and some carefully assembled handloads which produced about 1MOA and restored my faith in the little rifle.

My thought was that they are slapping most .223 together in an attempt to meet demand these days and some quality and component standards may have been relaxed.
bamaranger is offline  
Old August 14, 2013, 07:30 AM   #11
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
I was forced to spend 16.99 on a box of American eagle.
I'd like to know how they FORCED you to buy ammo for 16.99 - they hold your gun to your head?

I believe the door to their business works both ways..........

As to the functioning issue, the Federal stuff should have worked, it always has in mine (now my son's) AR

Take pics and call/send to Federal/ATK. With machinery running 24/7/365, OOPS is going to happen now and again
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old August 14, 2013, 08:06 AM   #12
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,461
I don't buy any centerfire ammo except the "cheap Russian crap" I use for my AK, so I can't say whether or not ammo quality is suffering, but the "cheap Russian crap" goes bang every time. I'd consider reloading 7.62x39, but bullets are expensive, brass is hard to find and my gun throws the steel about 50 feet northeast.

Quote:
Maybe you have worn your FP over time.
If that was the case, the problem would likely have shown up before now on the Russian ammo.
spacecoast is offline  
Old August 15, 2013, 07:59 PM   #13
RamItOne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2011
Posts: 990
BigD- Yeah they held me down at gunpoint while they yelled at me

Had driven 25 miles to try out the new range so was gonna give it a "shot" per se regardless.

Their reasoning on the steel case it they keep the brass and sell it, they get charged back quite a bit from the brass collector if he finds anything mixed.

As for A E and Federal, yeah thought the same thing, didnt know if the AE was a "value line".

Ill take a pic of the firing pin, but it worked fine on the russian stuff a few weeks ago, not a material science major, but I don't believe the metal would soften or wear down that quickly. As I said before, my rifle has fired several thousand rounds. When I can find a cool day (in FL that means high 80s) Ill go back to an outdoor range with the russian stuff and see if I have any issues.
I did save the box of AE in case I did decide to email them.
__________________
M&P- the other dark meat

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rtant/DJyvnHz0
RamItOne is offline  
Old August 16, 2013, 02:18 AM   #14
Venom1956
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2008
Location: WI
Posts: 3,656
Quote:
They don't sell titanium firing pins for nothing.
I believe titanium is usually weaker then steel in alloys it Ti has a higher strength to weight ratio. It isn't more durable then steel.
__________________
E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that.
I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug
Venom1956 is offline  
Old August 16, 2013, 09:58 AM   #15
BigD_in_FL
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
When I can find a cool day (in FL that means high 80s)
We had a few last year -I think it was in February..........

I know that feeling - was all set to go to a fairly new indoor range because it had AC, but they said no reloads allowed - of any kind - as a few idiots had some issues and did some damage, so everyone gets restricted
BigD_in_FL is offline  
Old November 6, 2013, 07:58 PM   #16
RamItOne
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2011
Posts: 990
Update

Went to the outdoor range last week, ran 120 rounds of Tulammo and monarch, no issues. One mag of federal and boom within the first 10 rounds a failure, clean centered dent on primer but no ignition.
Just got in my freedom munitions reload 62 grain, took it to an indoor range and fired 85 rounds, no issues, these were rather fast shots, no more than 1.5 seconds between shots, and several triple shots.

Will have to try some non federal new ammo.

Just don't understand, I've always been under the impression that cheap ammo has hard primers or at least sub par primers.
__________________
M&P- the other dark meat

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...rtant/DJyvnHz0
RamItOne is offline  
Old November 6, 2013, 10:21 PM   #17
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,706
Quote:
It does stand to reason that if a manufacturer will not spend any extra money on brass cases, why would he spend any extra money on guilding metal jackets?
I believe Hornady makes steel cased ammo loaded with premium bullets. Or at least they did up to just a couple years ago. Price was less then brass cased.
Mike38 is offline  
Old November 6, 2013, 10:40 PM   #18
Justice06RR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2010
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,360
Quote:
Went to the outdoor range last week, ran 120 rounds of Tulammo and monarch, no issues. One mag of federal and boom within the first 10 rounds a failure, clean centered dent on primer but no ignition.
Just got in my freedom munitions reload 62 grain, took it to an indoor range and fired 85 rounds, no issues, these were rather fast shots, no more than 1.5 seconds between shots, and several triple shots.

Will have to try some non federal new ammo.

Just don't understand, I've always been under the impression that cheap ammo has hard primers or at least sub par primers.
You probably got a bad batch of AE ammo. If all other ammo except the AE223 works fine, then its definitely just that box/batch of ammo that is bad.

Contact the ammo manufacturer (if you want to go through the hassle) and see if they can send you some free ammo
Justice06RR is offline  
Old November 7, 2013, 11:26 AM   #19
coldbeer
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2012
Location: Woodhaven MI
Posts: 477
A lot of these ranges sell the brass left behind to ammo manufacturers and steel cases can't be reloaded.
coldbeer is offline  
Reply

Tags
ammo , misfire , quality

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08978 seconds with 8 queries