Nuther novice question

Doc Hoy · April 20, 2009, 03:42 PM

Shooters,

As perhaps y'all remember I am starting up after a long time away from shooting BP. I am getting to the point where I think I am pretty consistent with my technique. I feel like am shooting the same way nearly every time.

I am getting good groups but in two out of three pistols yesterday I was shooting two to three inches to the right. The pistol which gave me well centered groups was the ROA (adjustable sights) which I may have adjusted to counteract a problem.

I think that I may be pulling my shots to the right because of something I am doing. I have carefully examined the pistols I used and there seems to be no alignment problems. To put it in the words of the "kid" in "Unforgiven", "It ain't bent!"

Any suggestions?

ar15chase · April 20, 2009, 03:51 PM

You are prabably pulling the gun off when you squeeze the trigger.

Doc Hoy · April 20, 2009, 04:52 PM

Ar15,

Yes....I am thinking you are correct. When I shot in the Navy, we overcame that tendency by only using the very tip of our finger. (At least toward the tip from the first knuckle) On the .45 it was a finger geometry versus pistol geometry thing. Trigger pull is straight back no matter where you put your finger. Not so on the BP revolvers. I got used to that and although, the last time I held a .45 was about 20 years ago, the habit has persisted. When we consistently shot to the right, the gunner's mate accused us of "hauling timber."

I shoot alone so I would not know, but I think this is pretty much standard. So I think my finger position is correct. Is there perhaps another tendency that results in pulling to the right? Something that every one of you knows about but that I have missed.

Tnx,

Barry

mykeal · April 20, 2009, 05:26 PM

ar15chase · April 20, 2009, 05:33 PM

The only other thing I know to tell you that you might try is, dry fire practice. While sqeezing the trigger keep a VERY close eye on your front sight, see if it moves at all. When I 1st got back into shooting hand-guns, I had a heak of a time, not pulling the gun over to my right. I still do it when I speed up my rate of fire, havent got that one down yet. The above diagram looks very help-ful. I have never seen that before.

Doc Hoy · April 20, 2009, 06:02 PM

Mykeal,

So now I am going to watch what I am doing with my thumb. Eeeeeexcellent!

Thanks,

51_60_colt · April 20, 2009, 08:42 PM

thats a really useful chart mykeal, I'll be using that chart too

madcratebuilder · April 21, 2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

I think that I may be pulling my shots to the right because of something I am doing. I have carefully examined the pistols I used and there seems to be no alignment problems. To put it in the words of the "kid" in "Unforgiven", "It ain't bent!"

If the groups are tight then I don't think you are pulling your shoots. Try shooting from a sand bag rest and see what happens. You may need to widen the hammer notch a little to get closer to center.

CaptainCrossman · April 21, 2009, 08:33 AM

I'm right handed and tend to pull the shots high and to the left, at a local gun shop there are a few mock up pistols with laser sights mounted on the counter, and a target behind the counter- you can pick them up, aim, and pull the trigger, and the laser shows you where you're pulling the shot. If you are left handed, then pulling hight and to the right would be normal- if I shoot very slowly and from a rest, the effect goes away- but shooting offhand with certain pistols (especially my Haskell 45 auto) I have to shoot low/right to hit the bull- but group excellent. Pistols move very easily due to their small weight/barrel length and what you are experiencing is normal. To really get the gun "dead on" you could vise hold it and fire it, and sight it in that way- then you know the gun is right and work on your technique. Just make sure you use a vise holder that is soft, so as not to damage the gun.

blackpowder groups typically do go all over, because of loading variations in the powder. It's easy to put in 1/2 to 1/4 of a grain more/less of powder, and that will affect your groups.

mykeal · April 21, 2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

It's easy to put in 1/2 to 1/4 of a grain more/less of powder, and that will affect your groups.

That is simply not correct.

madcratebuilder · April 21, 2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

It's easy to put in 1/2 to 1/4 of a grain more/less of powder, and that will affect your groups.

I haven't done a scientific study or logged any data, but I have to change loads by 4 or 5 grains before I see a change in POI. I tried some 2 gr changes and did not see a change at all.

Fingers McGee · April 21, 2009, 11:31 PM

Quote CC:

Quote:

blackpowder groups typically do go all over, because of loading variations in the powder.

That is simply not true.

Quote CC:

Quote:

It's easy to put in 1/2 to 1/4 of a grain more/less of powder, and that will affect your groups.

Using that heathen smokeless stuff and measuring by weight; maybe. BP measured by volume, never.

Quote MCB

Quote:

I haven't done a scientific study or logged any data, but I have to change loads by 4 or 5 grains before I see a change in POI. I tried some 2 gr changes and did not see a change at all.

My experience also MCB.

April 20, 2009, 03:42 PM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Nuther novice question Shooters, As perhaps y'all remember I am starting up after a long time away from shooting BP. I am getting to the point where I think I am pretty consistent with my technique. I feel like am shooting the same way nearly every time. I am getting good groups but in two out of three pistols yesterday I was shooting two to three inches to the right. The pistol which gave me well centered groups was the ROA (adjustable sights) which I may have adjusted to counteract a problem. I think that I may be pulling my shots to the right because of something I am doing. I have carefully examined the pistols I used and there seems to be no alignment problems. To put it in the words of the "kid" in "Unforgiven", "It ain't bent!" Any suggestions? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 20, 2009, 03:51 PM	#2
ar15chase Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: Shallowater, Texas Posts: 444	You are prabably pulling the gun off when you squeeze the trigger. __________________ A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

April 20, 2009, 04:52 PM	#3
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I'm thinkin thats it. Ar15, Yes....I am thinking you are correct. When I shot in the Navy, we overcame that tendency by only using the very tip of our finger. (At least toward the tip from the first knuckle) On the .45 it was a finger geometry versus pistol geometry thing. Trigger pull is straight back no matter where you put your finger. Not so on the BP revolvers. I got used to that and although, the last time I held a .45 was about 20 years ago, the habit has persisted. When we consistently shot to the right, the gunner's mate accused us of "hauling timber." I shoot alone so I would not know, but I think this is pretty much standard. So I think my finger position is correct. Is there perhaps another tendency that results in pulling to the right? Something that every one of you knows about but that I have missed. Tnx, Barry __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 20, 2009, 05:33 PM	#5
ar15chase Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: Shallowater, Texas Posts: 444	The only other thing I know to tell you that you might try is, dry fire practice. While sqeezing the trigger keep a VERY close eye on your front sight, see if it moves at all. When I 1st got back into shooting hand-guns, I had a heak of a time, not pulling the gun over to my right. I still do it when I speed up my rate of fire, havent got that one down yet. The above diagram looks very help-ful. I have never seen that before. __________________ A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

April 20, 2009, 06:02 PM	#6
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Ooooooo Yeah! Mykeal, So now I am going to watch what I am doing with my thumb. Eeeeeexcellent! Thanks, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 20, 2009, 05:26 PM	#4
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772

April 20, 2009, 08:42 PM	#7
51_60_colt Member Join Date: March 31, 2009 Location: Winston-Salem or Boone, NC Posts: 76	thats a really useful chart mykeal, I'll be using that chart too __________________ "I'm a big fan of gun control, if there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." NRA

April 21, 2009, 08:33 AM	#9
CaptainCrossman Junior member Join Date: April 2, 2009 Posts: 381	I'm right handed and tend to pull the shots high and to the left, at a local gun shop there are a few mock up pistols with laser sights mounted on the counter, and a target behind the counter- you can pick them up, aim, and pull the trigger, and the laser shows you where you're pulling the shot. If you are left handed, then pulling hight and to the right would be normal- if I shoot very slowly and from a rest, the effect goes away- but shooting offhand with certain pistols (especially my Haskell 45 auto) I have to shoot low/right to hit the bull- but group excellent. Pistols move very easily due to their small weight/barrel length and what you are experiencing is normal. To really get the gun "dead on" you could vise hold it and fire it, and sight it in that way- then you know the gun is right and work on your technique. Just make sure you use a vise holder that is soft, so as not to damage the gun. blackpowder groups typically do go all over, because of loading variations in the powder. It's easy to put in 1/2 to 1/4 of a grain more/less of powder, and that will affect your groups.