Old .17 Cal Rifle

Dave R · December 20, 2002, 04:10 PM

I lost one of my best friends on Thanksgiving day. To cancer. He had been fighting a long time, with some success, but went downhill fast and was gone before any of us was ready for it. I spoke at his funeral.

We were shooting buddies. I learned a lot from him. He did not own a rifle in a commercial caliber. He had seven children, and all are shooters to one extent or another.

To make a long story short, his widow just brought me over one of his pet rifles. I can't believe none of his kids wanted it. But the wife says they were unanimous that I should have it. I'm touched.

Now what is it? It shoots a .357mag (pistol) case necked down to .17. A REAL short & fat magnum. I know there's a name for that cartridge. Anyone know what it is?

It was re-barreled and re-chambered, obviously. The action is, I believe, a Martini-Henry or a clone thereof.

Markings are as follows.

Left side of receiver:
-Trade [illustration] Marks
-The illustration is 3 rifles arranges like a teepee.
-Below that, either B.S.A or P.S.A with bar above and below.

Right Side of receiver, by buttstock:
-W.A.Co. or W.4.Co
-Ri?? N.J. (Ridge, N.J.?)

Top of receiver:
-A tiny cartouche that looks lik a stylized W with a crown above it. By barrel on right side. Another identical one on top left by buttstock.

I could not find a serial number

Questions:

-Any idea who made the receiver and when? Blueing is good but metal is worn.

-Any idea where I could get a ballistics table and load data for the cartridge?

-If I can't locate dies in his reloading stuff, any idea where I could get a set? I assume the set that necks the .357mag brass goes through quite a few steps...

I'll have to get into reloading now. I guess that's part of the gift. Now if I can only shoot the thing without tearing up...

Jim Watson · December 20, 2002, 09:28 PM

You have a B.S.A. (Birmingham Small Arms) Martini; probably the Cadet, originally in .310 Cadet caliber; similar to .32-20. BSA made 80,000 between 1910 and 1913 and may have resumed after WW I. Certainly they made other small Martinis and there were other makers of the type in England and even Australia.

The .17 x .357 may, MAY be the round listed by Huntington and CH/4D as the .17 Super Jet or .17 Saunders, but it might be somebody else's design on the same brass. The best thing to do would be to make a chamber cast and send it to one of those outfits. Huntington is about the only source for custom RCBS dies now. CH/4D says they will make loading and forming dies for anything you can send them a chamber cast or fired case for. Redding might, I could not call up their caliber chart.

I found this site.
http://www.saubier.com/
and the section
http://www.saubier.com/smallcaliber/loadresources.html
lists Mr Saunders book and other information.

It's a start, hope I have been of some help in keeping an heirloom up and shooting.

Loading die companies
http://www.huntingtons.com/
http://www.ch4d.com/
http://www.redding-reloading.com/

Dave R · December 20, 2002, 10:59 PM

Wonderful. Thank you.

C.R.Sam · December 21, 2002, 11:42 AM

Dave, sorry you lost a friend.
Obvious he also considered you a special friend or his kids wouldn't have done that.

I have a suspicion there were dies with that gun. You might ask the widow or one of the sons.

Jim's post, above, also applicable.

Sam

Dave R · December 21, 2002, 11:47 PM

Yes, I will check with the widow and kids. Finding dies is half the problem. I also need to find load recipes! Looking for alternate sources in case one or 'tother is not to be found.

I posted at Saubier's forum. Will let you know what I get, if I get before the End of Time...

December 20, 2002, 04:10 PM	#1
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Old .17 Cal Rifle I lost one of my best friends on Thanksgiving day. To cancer. He had been fighting a long time, with some success, but went downhill fast and was gone before any of us was ready for it. I spoke at his funeral. We were shooting buddies. I learned a lot from him. He did not own a rifle in a commercial caliber. He had seven children, and all are shooters to one extent or another. To make a long story short, his widow just brought me over one of his pet rifles. I can't believe none of his kids wanted it. But the wife says they were unanimous that I should have it. I'm touched. Now what is it? It shoots a .357mag (pistol) case necked down to .17. A REAL short & fat magnum. I know there's a name for that cartridge. Anyone know what it is? It was re-barreled and re-chambered, obviously. The action is, I believe, a Martini-Henry or a clone thereof. Markings are as follows. Left side of receiver: -Trade [illustration] Marks -The illustration is 3 rifles arranges like a teepee. -Below that, either B.S.A or P.S.A with bar above and below. Right Side of receiver, by buttstock: -W.A.Co. or W.4.Co -Ri?? N.J. (Ridge, N.J.?) Top of receiver: -A tiny cartouche that looks lik a stylized W with a crown above it. By barrel on right side. Another identical one on top left by buttstock. I could not find a serial number Questions: -Any idea who made the receiver and when? Blueing is good but metal is worn. -Any idea where I could get a ballistics table and load data for the cartridge? -If I can't locate dies in his reloading stuff, any idea where I could get a set? I assume the set that necks the .357mag brass goes through quite a few steps... I'll have to get into reloading now. I guess that's part of the gift. Now if I can only shoot the thing without tearing up... __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

December 20, 2002, 10:59 PM	#3
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Wonderful. Thank you. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

December 21, 2002, 11:47 PM	#5
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Yes, I will check with the widow and kids. Finding dies is half the problem. I also need to find load recipes! Looking for alternate sources in case one or 'tother is not to be found. I posted at Saubier's forum. Will let you know what I get, if I get before the End of Time... __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

December 20, 2002, 09:28 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	You have a B.S.A. (Birmingham Small Arms) Martini; probably the Cadet, originally in .310 Cadet caliber; similar to .32-20. BSA made 80,000 between 1910 and 1913 and may have resumed after WW I. Certainly they made other small Martinis and there were other makers of the type in England and even Australia. The .17 x .357 may, MAY be the round listed by Huntington and CH/4D as the .17 Super Jet or .17 Saunders, but it might be somebody else's design on the same brass. The best thing to do would be to make a chamber cast and send it to one of those outfits. Huntington is about the only source for custom RCBS dies now. CH/4D says they will make loading and forming dies for anything you can send them a chamber cast or fired case for. Redding might, I could not call up their caliber chart. I found this site. http://www.saubier.com/ and the section http://www.saubier.com/smallcaliber/loadresources.html lists Mr Saunders book and other information. It's a start, hope I have been of some help in keeping an heirloom up and shooting. Loading die companies http://www.huntingtons.com/ http://www.ch4d.com/ http://www.redding-reloading.com/

December 21, 2002, 11:42 AM	#4
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Dave, sorry you lost a friend. Obvious he also considered you a special friend or his kids wouldn't have done that. I have a suspicion there were dies with that gun. You might ask the widow or one of the sons. Jim's post, above, also applicable. Sam