September 20, 2011, 10:27 PM | #1076 |
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Breaking news--Congressman Issa discards mainstream media for bloggers
Mike Vanerbough at Sipsy Street Katie Pavlich at Town Hall confirms the call. David Workman (Seattle Examiner) |
September 21, 2011, 02:04 AM | #1077 | |
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Now the U S Govt gets the brilliant idea to arm the Sinaola cartel to fight the Zetas whom we trained and more or less equipped. So after this bloodbath, which criminal element do you suggest we equip to take on the Sinaola cartel? I hope the FBI learned this lesson in regards to helping one mob supposedly fight another mob. You do not get less mob, you get one much bigger nastier mob. This is a failed strategy. If you want to play games like that you have to have more control of the situation (leverage) and it helps if one of the parties has some morals. The cartels are ruthless thugs who could care less about any agreements they make. There is a long history at every level of many governments in which politicians see an advantage TO THEMSELVES to make deals with organized crime. But the person on the street, the beat cop, the civilian, the low level crooks are the ones who pay the price.
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September 21, 2011, 02:51 AM | #1078 |
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The mainstream media really has sucked at investigating the story - some of it is how media has changed.
It used to be that these big news agencies had a large staff of talented and dedicated investigative reporters, but the Internet changed everything. Some of it is probably bias and complacency. They were content to broadcast the occasional blurb that Issa, Grassley or some blogger turned up. But I think this will mark a change in things. The large news agencies can't afford the loss of face. Some of them at least are going to to get serious about investigating and reporting the story and you'll start hearing reporters ask the hard questions on shows like "Meet the Press" and others. The questions about "who knew what and when?" This also is looking more and more to me like it's moving toward the apointing of a special procescutor. I think politicians are loath to do that now - it's like the political version of using a 300 megaton thermo-nuclear war head to swat a mosquitto. But the facts keep making things look worse and worse. A federal agent was murdered and it's completely unthinkable to me that an agency dedicated to investigating crime and uncovering the truth would tamper with a crime scene and obscond with evidence. What happened to the third gun? If you can't trust the FBI to investigate this - who can investigate it? it's like you have to create a new independent investigative task force. it seems like only a special prosecutor would be able to really investigate it properly. The more evidence that comes out - the more it looks to me like its heading that way. Last edited by C0untZer0; September 21, 2011 at 02:58 AM. |
September 21, 2011, 07:17 AM | #1079 | |
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Well, the El Paso Times reports allegations that several high-ranking political officials (federal and state) are working for the FBI. The source admits his own ranch was used to smuggle drugs but claims the FBI asked him to do it.
http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_18924755 It seems like a fair question in any of these controversies is who exactly is working for whom? Quote:
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September 21, 2011, 07:22 AM | #1080 | |
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More from the audio tapes obtained by CBS News:
ATF 'Fast and Furious' secret audio recordings reveal concerns about whistleblower Quote:
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September 21, 2011, 07:55 AM | #1081 | |
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No justification will ever surface, that is satisfactory, for what's been done. In fact, there's no reason to even look for one. Just establish the facts and prosecute.
http://news.yahoo.com/gunmen-dump-35...013656828.html
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September 21, 2011, 09:21 AM | #1082 | |
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Based on the recent history....
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September 21, 2011, 02:22 PM | #1083 | |
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From Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...unner-scandal/
Andre Howard's attorney contends that Howard was recording Hope MacAllister in order to get evidence from her that the agency was letting the guns walk across the border. That, according to the lawyer, is why Howard used the language that's on the tapes. Maybe so, maybe not - that's probably a debate for another time. But I think that it's been made clear that the gun sales to straw purchasers who would have been denied by the NICS were green-lit by the ATF. Because of that, this quote from the article is chilling to me: Quote:
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September 21, 2011, 07:34 PM | #1084 |
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Fox Ticker reporting that the Inspector General for the ATF improperly turned over evidence including tape recordings to ATF Agents who were under investigation. Checking for more info.
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September 21, 2011, 07:54 PM | #1085 | |
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September 21, 2011, 08:28 PM | #1086 |
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The prosecution doesn't have to turn over exculpatory information to the defense until there is a crime identified, a defendant arrested, charged, and indicted, and a trial pending. So far, nobody has been charged with any criminal act, so any talk about turning over exculpatory evidence to "the defense" is completely unrelated to the situation.
Basically, the IG gave the US Attorney's office the information so they could start building their cover story. |
September 21, 2011, 09:21 PM | #1087 | ||
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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September 21, 2011, 09:33 PM | #1088 |
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What KyJim wrote is true. Several defendants are awaiting trial in LA and San Diego. The information turned over was requested by the defense attorneys at discovery.
This was stated, by one of the defense attorneys, some months ago. These criminal trials may be the one way that the current administration is brought to its knees. Remember, these trials are for criminal conduct and virtually everything will be public. |
September 21, 2011, 10:22 PM | #1089 | |
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Why would Issa make this statement? It's actually irrelevant whether he wants to appoint a special prosecutor or not, since as a committee chairman he has exactly the same authority as you or I or the guy down the street to appoint one. |
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September 22, 2011, 04:23 AM | #1090 |
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The solution to the discovery problem should have been to remove the Phoenix office from the investigation much sooner, as in, as soon as it was apparent there was a conflict.
I'd say that would be about last March, a month or so before Eric Holder heard about gunwalking for the first time. |
September 22, 2011, 06:46 AM | #1091 | |
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September 22, 2011, 11:42 AM | #1092 |
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If it's true that F&F was to fan the flames of gun control, it is akin to an environmentalist poisoning groundwater in order to enact safe drinking water regulations.
The unfolding of this investigation seems very well timed. I'm hoping it reaches a peak around, say, early October, 2012. |
September 22, 2011, 06:09 PM | #1093 | |
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From the two bloggers that brought this whole sordid mess to everyone's attention. A new startling development has been uncovered. First David Codrea's take on it:
ATF Counsel email to Melson on Gunwalker-Terry murder link preceded intimidation Mike Vanderbough has his take on the story here. [note: they are pretty much the same. If you read one, you won't see much difference in the other] An explicit admission in this January 5, 2011 email is: Quote:
Wonder what Issa will do with this? |
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September 22, 2011, 07:36 PM | #1094 |
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Al, I think the larger question is...why is Issa being left on an island with all of this? Why has none of the House or Senate Republican leadership so much as taken a sniff at any of it? They seem thoroughly frightened of taking on the WH over this.
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September 22, 2011, 07:50 PM | #1095 | |
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September 22, 2011, 09:03 PM | #1096 |
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And that, zxcvbob, is the answer to the silent and unasked question. Wish it weren't so, but I guess it is what it is.
I just listened to Sen. Grassley on the release of the tapes. If what he says is to be believed, the release by the IG was not only before any trials were started, they still aren't into the discovery stage. So if the defense attorneys didn't do a discovery, then there can be only one reason for the release of the tapes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iMDufUMzl0 |
September 22, 2011, 09:56 PM | #1097 |
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Is it just me or are we seriously getting close to the definition of a RICO crime? Maybe Im wrong??? But I dont see any difference between this and a maifa boss scheme... other than tax payer money was used to provide the weapons used to kill our agents.
Ok, so its worse than a RICO crime but I think it may now be approaching the actual legal definition...
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September 22, 2011, 10:59 PM | #1098 |
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I can think of no response to the posts above that would not violate board rules, so I will just say this - may God (should there be one) help this nation, for we certainly need it. We have no leaders. None.
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September 22, 2011, 11:18 PM | #1099 |
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Race and Politics, or might it be described as Racial Politics? Interesting, but then is there any reason at all for the citizenry to have faith in either Democratic or Republican "leadership"?
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September 23, 2011, 06:39 AM | #1100 |
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atf , fast and furious |
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