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Old April 4, 2010, 11:02 PM   #101
Al Norris
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Yup!

I was merely trying to reinforce a point you made earlier, but it seems most everyone ignored.
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Old April 4, 2010, 11:45 PM   #102
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Make me Benevolent Omnipotent Deity and no one shall ignore you again. Ever. I will make sure.

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Old April 4, 2010, 11:54 PM   #103
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You people who think you are gods are very annoying to those of us who are...

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Old April 5, 2010, 05:57 AM   #104
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Maybe mayhem wouldn't ensue, maybe it would, we are all guessing
Not exactly. You're guessing, based on your personal prejudices. Others are making a prediction based on historical evidence, to wit the lack of mayhem that ensued following the passage of "shall issue" in states that contain Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix, Miami, Jacksonville... Large cities, not without crime problems, but almost wholly without crime problems related to the carry of firearms by the law-abiding.

And again, you have no moral right to decide who may defend themselves, and who must remain at the mercy of criminal attackers.
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Old April 5, 2010, 07:23 AM   #105
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I wonder if they catch an illegal alien with a gun, under the newer law....will he get one of Sheriff Joe's pink jumpsuits?

The sky will be falling in Arizona because legal cits can carry legally? Doubt it.
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Old April 5, 2010, 07:38 AM   #106
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I read alot here about imminent dangers(like National Park carry, Starbucks, or laws changing due to Heller and the like....and soon in VA restaurant carry, gun show or private unregistered sales....).

Do any of these things ever play out like the anti-gun crowd says they will, or can I assume that if they say something will happen....chances are that it definately won't happen on any large scale?
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Old April 5, 2010, 09:01 AM   #107
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I hope this isn't a dupe but if Arizona doesn't require training to conceal carry how will they conceal carry when out of state?

Will there be a separate process where someone can still get a conceal carry permit?
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Old April 5, 2010, 09:47 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by RDak
I hope this isn't a dupe but if Arizona doesn't require training to conceal carry how will they conceal carry when out of state?

Will there be a separate process where someone can still get a conceal carry permit?
It is my understanding, from the Arizonians posting here, that the bill simply does away with the requirement for a permit, but does not do away with the permit itself - like Alaska. However, if Arizona does not offer a permit any longer, than a person would have to get a non-resident license from a state like Utah or Florida to at least be able to carry in some states that honor their non-resident permits.

Personally, I think it is a smart move to keep the permit as an option - it will still bring revenue into the state, it will provide exemption to the 1000' Federal school zone rule, and, your point of allowing carry in some other states.
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Old April 5, 2010, 09:58 AM   #109
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Yes, the permit will still be an option, just not neccesary. It will be required if you want to legally carry in a resteraunt that serves open alcohol, by state law, (permitee cannot consume), to get reciprocity, ( we recognize all state permits now, IIRC), and to eliminate the Brady check during firearm pruchase from an FFL, which takes about 5-10 minutes, max.
azleg.gov doesn't show any floor calenders yet for the week...odd.
Thanks, antipitas, appreciate the backup.
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Old April 5, 2010, 09:59 AM   #110
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Current plan is to keep the CCW process, if one wants to go that route which allows carry in other states and faster firearms purchase.
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Old April 5, 2010, 02:51 PM   #111
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And again, you have no moral right to decide who may defend themselves, and who must remain at the mercy of criminal attackers.
Nor do I want to. I don't see it as removing a right by requiring training. Maybe you do, but I don't.

Can it be used to "weed out" people who can't afford the training? Yes, possible. Is it now? No. My wife took her NRA class for 75 bucks. Reasonable in my opinion. I don't see it as restricting a right to require training.

For example, here in CT. we require the NRA safety class in order to get a pistol permit. Have to have it. Today was pistol permit day at my barracks. We have 2 days a week where people can renew their permit at my barracks, and not have to drive to DPS headquarters. The lobby was standing room only and there was a sign in list of people renewing permits. Nobody seems to have been stripped of the right to defend themselves by requiring a one time training class, at least here in CT.
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Old April 5, 2010, 02:56 PM   #112
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I went and got my permit just to have another form of ID and also to be able to buy a long gun out of state without a hunting license. Wanted to buy a shotgun once in Maine and they would have let me walk out with it if I had a pistol permit or a hunting license, at the time I had neither.

I still dont have a hunting license, but I have bagged quite a few furry critters in my day. With my Ford.
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Old April 5, 2010, 07:17 PM   #113
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Aaaaand the Governor signed the Preemption bill, AND AZ made firearms, so we are now on the Montana level.
Schedule for tomorrow doesn't show SB1108 on the House Third Read docket yet...soon.


Edit to add, anything you require a government permission for, i.e., "permit", is no longer a right and subject to government whim. That's why I hate the idea of having to go ask the government, no matter how benevolent, for thier written permission for me to excercise a right. My opinion.
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Old April 5, 2010, 07:43 PM   #114
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Quote:
Do any of these things ever play out like the anti-gun crowd says they will
NOPE

I generally see exactly opposite

Quote:
I wonder if they catch an illegal alien with a gun, under the newer law....will he get one of Sheriff Joe's pink jumpsuits?
God I hope not...First of all I don't think ANY taxpayer should have to pay to incarcerate ANY illegal alien...deport their ass plain and simple...regardless of where they import from.

You want to come to the U.S. then do it right!!!

(side note: The pink jumpsuit/underwear/handcuff idea is the funniest thing I've seen in ages...KUDOS!!)

Last edited by ReNtaPiG; April 5, 2010 at 07:49 PM.
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Old April 5, 2010, 09:02 PM   #115
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This was posted on another forum:

Quote:
Aaaaand the Governor signed the Preemption bill, AND AZ made firearms, so we are now on the Montana level.
Schedule for tomorrow doesn't show SB1108 on the House Third Read docket yet...
Quote:
I called Russell Pearce's office today and his aid indicated that they have received a lot of push back on this, even from the NRA lobby and this vote may never take place (in so many words). Everyone call their rep!

email him at: [email protected]
It would not surprise me one bit to learn that the NRA does NOT support the Constitutional Carry Bill. After all, who gets paid most often to train CCW instructors....
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Old April 5, 2010, 09:27 PM   #116
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So, how do we go about telling the NRA to back off, and actually support this legislation? It's board election season, so that might help. Any other ideas on how to get them to do the right thing?
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Old April 6, 2010, 04:34 AM   #117
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Folks, we've just had an important offer that shouldn't be ignored. T-bones growing on indoor vines, pre-aged. Any Diety with that kind of foresight would surely get the NRA in line, so we should consider this whole Wild Alaska for God thing.
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Old April 6, 2010, 04:56 AM   #118
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nraila

Quote:
Arizona closer to Constitutional carry

Tuesday, March 30, 2010

By a 20-10 margin, the Senate voted Monday to remove the permit requirement for those who want to carry a concealed weapon. The House already has given preliminary approval to an identical measure and should have a final vote later this week, sending the measure to Gov. Jan Brewer.
I'm game for a good NRA bashing, but let's make sure they deserve it.
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Old April 6, 2010, 05:53 AM   #119
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Ok, thanks for the info everyone about Arizona keeping the CCW process as an option.
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Old April 6, 2010, 07:50 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by publius42
I'm game for a good NRA bashing, but let's make sure they deserve it.
I looked on the NRA-ILA website and could find nothing indicating their efforts to support the bill, only reporting what was happening...
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Old April 6, 2010, 08:45 AM   #121
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From the Arizona Republic this morning.

"Gov. Jan Brewer has signed into law two bills supported by gun-rights activists.

One of the bills signed Monday would broaden the state's current restrictions on local governments' ability to regulate or tax guns and ammunition. One specific provision bars local governments from prohibiting a person with a concealed weapons permit from possessing a gun in a park.

The other bill declares that guns manufactured entirely in Arizona are exempt from federal oversight and are not subject to federal laws restricting the sale of firearms or requiring them to be registered.

Brewer says that bill "should send a clear and convincing message that politicians in Washington should not attempt to get between Arizonans and their constitutional rights."
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Old April 6, 2010, 08:52 AM   #122
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Does anybody know when these bills go into effect?
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Old April 6, 2010, 09:24 AM   #123
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Looks like the concealed carry bill passed yesterday(4/5) in House.
Vote Detail For HB2615 - Third Reading Referral 2
37/20

Looks like it may be on to the Gov to sign.
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Old April 6, 2010, 01:26 PM   #124
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Quote:
Brewer says that bill "should send a clear and convincing message that politicians in Washington should not attempt to get between Arizonans and their constitutional rights."
If only every Governor had her cojones...oh wait she doesn't actually have those...LOL
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Old April 6, 2010, 01:45 PM   #125
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n7qvu, HB 2615 is "emergency communications; antennae; accommodation". The bill we are waiting for is SB 1108. But it's good to look at all the bills, as we also have one floating through to help Tucson Trap and Skeet club become the official Olympic Trap and Skeet team training area.

To answer the other question, generally AZ bills become law 90 days after adjournment, generally September.

Called/e-mailed reps again.
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