Bond aquires Boberg

skizzums · November 19, 2015, 02:57 PM

This sounds great. I was amazed to hear that Boberg had only produced 750 arms(according to 2012, unsure as to present), but I think we all know why. It's a great concept but the price tag keeps the Boberg out of most of our pockets. If Bond can get it to a realistic price, I think it'll be a hit. What do you think? News amounting to nothing, or significant? Who has a Boberg and have you found it to be a reliable piece? Either way, I think it will really boost Bond's name in the market.

Slimjim9 · November 19, 2015, 06:50 PM

That does sound like a really low number. I had been hoping for an XR45-L for a while. I wonder if Bond will make that happen. I do agree the Boberg's are mighty expensive for most of us and they would be a lot more popular if they were in the $500-600 range.

Rembrandt · November 19, 2015, 07:52 PM

First I've heard of this.....bought two XR9-S Bobergs. One of the finest precision built firearms I've ever seen. Hope Bond Arms standards are as high as Arne Bobergs. Found this on the Boberg website....

http://community.bobergarms.com/foru...age=3#comments

Bond Arms, Inc. is excited to announce it has purchased the assets and product lines of Boberg Arms Corporation located in St. Paul, Minnesota.

Boberg Arms is the pioneering developer of compact and concealable, full-power semi-auto handguns featuring a unique, patented rear-feed system.

Bond Arms, of Granbury, Texas, is the industry leader manufacturing the smallest, most powerful and best built personal protection handguns.

The Boberg-designed bullpup semi-auto pistol is a perfect fit in the Bond Arms product line of precision- engineered, quality-constructed compact personal firearms. This acquisition is effective immediately and includes a transition period that may temporarily affect the ability of current Boberg Arms owners to receive quick warranty service if needed.

Boberg Arms will be relocating its manufacturing from St. Paul, MN to Granbury, TX over the next several months. It can be expected that in early January 2016, Bond Arms will begin servicing and supporting all current Boberg firearms. Also, during the first quarter of 2016 Bond Arms is expected to begin refining and building the next generation of these bullpup pistols under the Bond Arms name, on a limited basis at its Texas facility.

Customers of both companies are encouraged to follow the transition process on their respective current Facebook pages, and post any questions you may have there as well. This is also where we will announce when pre-orders for these next- generation Bond Arms bullpup semi-auto pistols can be placed, so stay tuned! --

thanks for everything folks!
~md

barnbwt · November 19, 2015, 07:55 PM

I can see 2012 only moving about 1000 units. I thought at that time, it was still a pretty small operation (Arne still running the business more or less single-handedly, plus the machine shop he'd contracted doing serial runs of parts, with a long customer backlog, and advertising largely by word of mouth), and that year was essentially before the Sandy Hook sellers' golden age. I'm under the impression the production side has increased quite a bit, as well as the number of product lines, since then (they've got the 9mm short & long, as well as 45 version hitting Gunbroker at the same time, now).

Me? Personally? I'd be a lot more interested if it were a single action with a grip safety. 1000$ for a nice double action still feels like...a double action, at the end of the day. The guns are certainly well made, and I think fully worth the price. But the end package is less than I think some buyers would care for, from a use perspective. For me, the deal-breakers are double-action-only guns, and slide-mounted safeties (sorry Beretta)

More generally, there was also a lot of hype about bullet-pulling that really should have been controlled better than it was (probably not possible, given the size of his operation and the egos of magazine/forum writers), and of course a number of folks did experience function issues. And of course, there is the age old conundrum of selling someone a smaller object for a larger price, all other issues aside. Very few buyers with the money look down on a 1200$ 1911, which has neither the innovation nor the functional advantages of the Boberg, yet decry buyers of the small pistols as ostentatious show-offs.

This merger, I think, will end up being a good thing, because an idea as radically different as the Boberg really needs a certain scale to push back against a status quo as rigid as firearms. Tie-ins with ammo producers to certify "Boberg-rated" ammo (+P, yo!

) with proper crimp from among their product lines would do a lot to alleviate buyers' concerns, and a big enough operation would be able to get holsters/sights/grips mainstreamed more quickly. The design still has massive potential, even in non-mouse-sized packages, and getting a duty-sized variant (still shorter front to rear than the competition) out there and on the ranges/competitions could only help promotion. Heck, get that 460 Rowland prototype mousegun Arne worked up into limited production, and call it a 'Knuckle Buster' or something

"I think it will really boost Bond's name in the market."
Only if they go Full Heizer and make a version in 223. Look on the bright side; it'll be crimped enough that bullet pull won't be an issue.

Seriously, if Bond keeps up the quality and beats back some of the bad vibes from haters, it'll rapidly become their best selling item (since it's much more practical than their derringers, to be honest)

TCB

lifesizepotato · November 19, 2015, 09:47 PM

I've had an early XR9S since they first came out that I like a lot, but I have had some reliability issues, and not just with bullet pulling.

I think the gun has an uphill battle because of what it is: an unproven innovation in a defensive gun that necessarily needs to be 100% reliable. It's hard to sell people on giving a few extra FPS to their 9mm bullets using an expensive design that is unique and potentially unreliable when there are scores of affordable Browning-based guns out there that have been proven for a hundred years. Even at a lower price point, people want their CCWs to be utterly fail-proof. Jams in the Boberg are quite hard to clear, also.

I've been meaning to get a longer barreled version and I guess I should make a move on that before they move production. I'd just rather have a handmade Boberg original than one made by Bond Arms.

mkiker2089 · November 19, 2015, 10:34 PM

Even range shooters want a gun that won't ever jam. I tried to talk myself into a Boberg before buying a Ruger Revolver instead. I really like the ideas and the positive aspects had me ready to spend more than I planned on. Then I read warnings about which brands of ammo to use. A gun should be able to fire any reasonable ammo. That's when I started seeing reviews about what to do when it fails to feed and why not to use Remington White Box for example.

A cheap gun can fail a few times, very few.
A gun that never fails can be a bit expensive.
A gun that fails CAN NOT be expensive.

I hope the design can be tweaked and perhaps the larger pockets of Bond will help. A hand built gun isn't necessarily better than one made by a precision machine.

simonrichter · December 1, 2015, 03:45 PM

I'm already curious whether the next generation will even make it below the 5" mark and thus bring the first 9mm that is even smaller than Kahr's P380...

Skans · December 2, 2015, 09:04 AM

I'm sorry to hear this. I have an XR9-S. It is my one of my favorite pistols. The engineering on this gun is incredible. The craftsmanship is exceptional! Bond makes good guns, but I have doubts as to whether they will be able to crank these babies out and expect them to be the quality of the ones produced by Boberg. I also wanted the XR-45S, but I only want it if I can get one made by Boberg - well, I'll be happy with the original Boberg I have.

November 19, 2015, 02:57 PM	#1
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	Bond aquires Boberg This sounds great. I was amazed to hear that Boberg had only produced 750 arms(according to 2012, unsure as to present), but I think we all know why. It's a great concept but the price tag keeps the Boberg out of most of our pockets. If Bond can get it to a realistic price, I think it'll be a hit. What do you think? News amounting to nothing, or significant? Who has a Boberg and have you found it to be a reliable piece? Either way, I think it will really boost Bond's name in the market. __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

November 19, 2015, 06:50 PM	#2
Slimjim9 Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2015 Posts: 783	That does sound like a really low number. I had been hoping for an XR45-L for a while. I wonder if Bond will make that happen. I do agree the Boberg's are mighty expensive for most of us and they would be a lot more popular if they were in the $500-600 range. __________________ Who said anything about safe? ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good.

November 19, 2015, 07:55 PM	#4
barnbwt Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2012 Posts: 1,085	I can see 2012 only moving about 1000 units. I thought at that time, it was still a pretty small operation (Arne still running the business more or less single-handedly, plus the machine shop he'd contracted doing serial runs of parts, with a long customer backlog, and advertising largely by word of mouth), and that year was essentially before the Sandy Hook sellers' golden age. I'm under the impression the production side has increased quite a bit, as well as the number of product lines, since then (they've got the 9mm short & long, as well as 45 version hitting Gunbroker at the same time, now). Me? Personally? I'd be a lot more interested if it were a single action with a grip safety. 1000$ for a nice double action still feels like...a double action, at the end of the day. The guns are certainly well made, and I think fully worth the price. But the end package is less than I think some buyers would care for, from a use perspective. For me, the deal-breakers are double-action-only guns, and slide-mounted safeties (sorry Beretta) More generally, there was also a lot of hype about bullet-pulling that really should have been controlled better than it was (probably not possible, given the size of his operation and the egos of magazine/forum writers), and of course a number of folks did experience function issues. And of course, there is the age old conundrum of selling someone a smaller object for a larger price, all other issues aside. Very few buyers with the money look down on a 1200$ 1911, which has neither the innovation nor the functional advantages of the Boberg, yet decry buyers of the small pistols as ostentatious show-offs. This merger, I think, will end up being a good thing, because an idea as radically different as the Boberg really needs a certain scale to push back against a status quo as rigid as firearms. Tie-ins with ammo producers to certify "Boberg-rated" ammo (+P, yo! ) with proper crimp from among their product lines would do a lot to alleviate buyers' concerns, and a big enough operation would be able to get holsters/sights/grips mainstreamed more quickly. The design still has massive potential, even in non-mouse-sized packages, and getting a duty-sized variant (still shorter front to rear than the competition) out there and on the ranges/competitions could only help promotion. Heck, get that 460 Rowland prototype mousegun Arne worked up into limited production, and call it a 'Knuckle Buster' or something "I think it will really boost Bond's name in the market." Only if they go Full Heizer and make a version in 223. Look on the bright side; it'll be crimped enough that bullet pull won't be an issue. Seriously, if Bond keeps up the quality and beats back some of the bad vibes from haters, it'll rapidly become their best selling item (since it's much more practical than their derringers, to be honest) TCB __________________ "I don't believe that the men of the distant past were any wiser than we are today. But it does seem that their science and technology were able to accomplish much grander things." -- Alex Rosewater

December 1, 2015, 03:45 PM	#7
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 757	I'm already curious whether the next generation will even make it below the 5" mark and thus bring the first 9mm that is even smaller than Kahr's P380... __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

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November 19, 2015, 07:52 PM	#3
Rembrandt Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 2,108	First I've heard of this.....bought two XR9-S Bobergs. One of the finest precision built firearms I've ever seen. Hope Bond Arms standards are as high as Arne Bobergs. Found this on the Boberg website.... http://community.bobergarms.com/foru...age=3#comments Bond Arms, Inc. is excited to announce it has purchased the assets and product lines of Boberg Arms Corporation located in St. Paul, Minnesota. Boberg Arms is the pioneering developer of compact and concealable, full-power semi-auto handguns featuring a unique, patented rear-feed system. Bond Arms, of Granbury, Texas, is the industry leader manufacturing the smallest, most powerful and best built personal protection handguns. The Boberg-designed bullpup semi-auto pistol is a perfect fit in the Bond Arms product line of precision- engineered, quality-constructed compact personal firearms. This acquisition is effective immediately and includes a transition period that may temporarily affect the ability of current Boberg Arms owners to receive quick warranty service if needed. Boberg Arms will be relocating its manufacturing from St. Paul, MN to Granbury, TX over the next several months. It can be expected that in early January 2016, Bond Arms will begin servicing and supporting all current Boberg firearms. Also, during the first quarter of 2016 Bond Arms is expected to begin refining and building the next generation of these bullpup pistols under the Bond Arms name, on a limited basis at its Texas facility. Customers of both companies are encouraged to follow the transition process on their respective current Facebook pages, and post any questions you may have there as well. This is also where we will announce when pre-orders for these next- generation Bond Arms bullpup semi-auto pistols can be placed, so stay tuned! -- thanks for everything folks! ~md

November 19, 2015, 09:47 PM	#5
lifesizepotato Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Posts: 210	I've had an early XR9S since they first came out that I like a lot, but I have had some reliability issues, and not just with bullet pulling. I think the gun has an uphill battle because of what it is: an unproven innovation in a defensive gun that necessarily needs to be 100% reliable. It's hard to sell people on giving a few extra FPS to their 9mm bullets using an expensive design that is unique and potentially unreliable when there are scores of affordable Browning-based guns out there that have been proven for a hundred years. Even at a lower price point, people want their CCWs to be utterly fail-proof. Jams in the Boberg are quite hard to clear, also. I've been meaning to get a longer barreled version and I guess I should make a move on that before they move production. I'd just rather have a handmade Boberg original than one made by Bond Arms.

November 19, 2015, 10:34 PM	#6
mkiker2089 Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2015 Posts: 127	Even range shooters want a gun that won't ever jam. I tried to talk myself into a Boberg before buying a Ruger Revolver instead. I really like the ideas and the positive aspects had me ready to spend more than I planned on. Then I read warnings about which brands of ammo to use. A gun should be able to fire any reasonable ammo. That's when I started seeing reviews about what to do when it fails to feed and why not to use Remington White Box for example. A cheap gun can fail a few times, very few. A gun that never fails can be a bit expensive. A gun that fails CAN NOT be expensive. I hope the design can be tweaked and perhaps the larger pockets of Bond will help. A hand built gun isn't necessarily better than one made by a precision machine.

December 2, 2015, 09:04 AM	#8
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I'm sorry to hear this. I have an XR9-S. It is my one of my favorite pistols. The engineering on this gun is incredible. The craftsmanship is exceptional! Bond makes good guns, but I have doubts as to whether they will be able to crank these babies out and expect them to be the quality of the ones produced by Boberg. I also wanted the XR-45S, but I only want it if I can get one made by Boberg - well, I'll be happy with the original Boberg I have.