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Old January 18, 2017, 02:52 PM   #76
2ndsojourn
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How 'bout the .303 Savage? When eyeballing it next to a 30-30 it looks the same. I was able to grab a couple boxes of factory reload ammo at a couple gun shows and I always have my eye out for more.
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Old January 19, 2017, 11:22 AM   #77
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.303 Savage-chambered rifles enjoyed moderate popularity for 40 or so years, and the round was loaded commercially into the 1980s.

In my mind that qualifies it as an obsolete cartridge, but not a failed cartridge.
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Old January 19, 2017, 12:13 PM   #78
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.303 Savage is still available commercially...

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...-rds?a=1584035

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/cate.../303-savage.do
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Old January 19, 2017, 12:50 PM   #79
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But could we consider it failed when compared to it's direct competition, the 30-30 Winchester?
The 99 may have really been it's biggest problem concerning it's justification. This because Savage offered the much more powerful 300 Savage latter in the same gun.
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Old January 19, 2017, 02:00 PM   #80
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".303 Savage is still available commercially..."

Not still.

Again.

It was completely out of production for the better part of 15 to 20 years before Graff's brought it back.

The .303 is a perfect example of an obsolete cartridge that springs back to life long after it seemed to go the way of the dodo bird.



"But could we consider it failed when compared to it's direct competition, the 30-30 Winchester?"

No. Savage made probably 100,000 rifles chambered for .303 Savage.

Yes, that pales in comparison to the number of .30-30 Winchesters (Savage also chambered the Winchester round) made, but it still can't be qualified as a failure.

It wasn't as popular as the .30-30, but then again the Savage 99 wasn't as popular as the Model 94, but with nearly 3 million 99s made over a nearly 100 year production run, you can't qualify it was a failure, either.
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Old January 20, 2017, 07:30 AM   #81
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The .303 Savage was never 'dead' or obsolete in the way that other cartridges such as the .35 S&W Auto is...
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Old January 20, 2017, 10:19 AM   #82
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How about all the "New" offerings by Nosler? They have pretty well covered every popular caliber and are probably working on the unpopular ones now. I wonder when the release date is for the "New" .25 Nosler or the .22 Nosler. I predict a slow painful death for most of the Nosler cartridges. They're evidently trying to out-recoil Weatherby calibers.
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Old January 20, 2017, 01:07 PM   #83
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I ha e seen the .26 Nosler used to good effect, but I too am predicting they will go nowhere.

The truth is that we have reached the limits of the *commonly* available technology. There is only so much you can do using the same Low-explosive propellants, pushing the same bullets, through the same barrels. The shock wave of a smokeless powder explosion tops out at about 5500-6000 fps, and even with that we are running into chamber erosion and the limits of jacketed bullets. The ExTronex rounds failed, and caseless ties us forever to factory ammo. It leaves little room for true innovation in the way of accuracy, trajectory, and barrel life.

Barring the invention of a new barrel material which allows higher pressures to be employed without chamber erosion or flame cutting (high tensile strength ceramic barrel liners perhaps?), I think we have approached the limits of what is possible.
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Old January 20, 2017, 01:57 PM   #84
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I like Mike's list, but I thought the .351 WSL enjoyed a lot of popularity with the -1907 pattern rifles.
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Old January 20, 2017, 07:29 PM   #85
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".35 S&W"

Good example. That cartridge failed massively and quickly.


"but I thought the .351 WSL enjoyed a lot of popularity with the -1907 pattern rifles."

Look at my list again. I listed the .35 WSL, not the .351.

The .32 and .35 were chambered in the earlier 1905 Winchester. Both cartridges were widely seen as being underpowered and wholly useless.

To address that, Winchester introduced the .351 in the Model 1907 in a longer case holding more powder. It became quite popular as a police rifle, and some were even used by the French in World War I.

The .32 and .35 were both dropped from production pretty quickly and ammunition was discontinued in the run up to World War I.

The .32 WSL was re-engineered somewhat in the lead-up to World War II and became the .30 US Carbine cartridge.
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Old Today, 09:37 AM   #86
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If you look at the popular current caliber offerings it's almost impossible to argue in this day and age that there is a legitimate "gap" between calibers. We have weeded out the past odd calibers that are or were "an answer to a non-existent problem" Weather you hunt game or hunt X's there is a perfect caliber (or several) that will do it with precision, and current component availability.
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Old Today, 09:53 AM   #87
reynolds357
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I can go to the store today and buy:
17
20
22
24
25
26
27
28
30
32
33
35
37
40
41
45
50

There are even more that can be ordered.
There is no. Gap.
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Old Today, 10:42 AM   #88
RaySendero
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As a commercial sporting cartridge,
the .223 Remington was introduced in 1964.

Y'all spin this thread around a bit!

Since that 223 in 1964, Name/describe a newer cartridge
that has attained similar abundance and popularity?

Not restricted to US - World wide.
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Old Today, 02:10 PM   #89
FrankenMauser
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Reynolds357, you skipped 36, 43, and 47/48 calibers.

...Not to mention 51, 58, 60, 62, 66, 70, 73, and 78 calibers.

All of the above, plus your list, are available, on the shelf, within six miles of my home.


However...
Just looking at calibers isn't very useful. It would be very difficult to argue, for example, that there is no gap between 7mm Waters and .30-378 Weatherby; or between .22 LR and .243 Win; or between .480 Ruger and .50 BMG.
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