Best Lower

[Old Ugly]

Who would you say makes the better ar-15 lower, Rock River Arms, Stag Arms, or Smith and Wesson? And if I were to go with Stag Arms and not get a collapsible stock, do you think I should go with their A2 stock or their EFX-A1 stock?

[Tangentabacus]

I just want to say really quickly... Even though it doesn't answer your question directly.

Buy a lower receiver, get the parts off the internet, build it yourself. Only thing you NEED is roll pin punches which you can get off Amazon for about $30 that are really nice (get the Grace brand). Which you will need anyways if you plan on any future modifications to the rifle.

Advantages: You'll know you're gun about 9 million times better than "it just works". You'll like your gun more. You'll spend way less money (usually).

Something to note about receivers: Basically all receivers are created equal as there are only a few manufacturers (approximately 4) that make them here in the U.S. The big name brands that you know and love (S&W, Colt, Spikes, PSA, etc) use the forged lowers from these few manufacturers and then finish them by machining them to spec and painting them. The only exclusion to this rule is billet uppers and lowers which I personally do not feel are any better or any worse than forged lowers and therefore do not warrant their price. They are, however, "boutique" items whose value reflects the company that manufactures the billet lowers from a solid block of metal on the premises.

tl;dr... Build the lower yourself and invest in the time and materials needed to do it right if you plan on having ARs be a permanent fixture in your gun cabinet/safe.

In case everything I told you is useless and means nothing to you (or you may already know it) I advise you to look at Palmetto State Armory, Spikes, and Stag. Those three brands are really good for the money you pay. I've purchased a lot of stuff from PSA and despite the fact that the business is growing about eleven times faster than it can keep pace the products are always very good quality and the price is VERY good. I do not think in their case the price reflects the quality AT ALL as I've seen lowers for much more coin have a lot more problems.

[nate_g_2003]

When it comes time to buy a lower to build an AR, it will be between Stag, Aero Precision, and Palmetto. The first two because of looks (I like their logos), and Palmetto because of their price and customer service/availability. I'm personally not a fan of the Spikes logo, so I'm bypassing them.

But as Tangentabacus said, most will be pretty much the same aside from the name on the side.

[Ibmikey]

PSA all the way...stay with their premium line and avoid P-tac, rifle stocks require a different buffer, spring and extension (tube) than the carbine. The parts can easily be changed to rifle and back to carbine with the required parts or purchase only the items for your preferred stock choice.

[CTS]

Can you even buy a S&W lower? Or are you talking complete lower, not stripped? More than likely they are all Aero Precision anyway. They make a lot of the receivers that have different companies roll marks on them. I am pretty sure they make Spikes and I think they also make Palmetto State. Not sure about Stag.
I personally would prefer the A2 style stock but it is personal preference. If you decide to go with Stag, give me a shout. I am an authorized Stag dealer and may save you a few bucks.

[Tangentabacus]

I know I might be beating this to death but fun fact that you may or may not know.
There are only 4 companies that forge their own stuff and they are:

• LMT
• Colt
• ArmaLite
• F&N

Even then they often use lowers forged by someone else.

The most common forge is Cerro which is used by people like:

• Delton
• DPMS
• Spikes
• Stag: Also seen with Cardinal forge markings.
• KAC
• Remington
• Daniel Defense
• Smith & Wessom
• and more

You're buying basically the same thing if you go with Stag, Spikes, S&W. I could be wrong but I think that the PSA stuff is made by F&N... I know their barrels are.

[CTS]

Your confusing F&N manufacturing with FN (Fabrique National). That is the FN that PSA gets barrels from. They are neighbors. FN has the military contract for M4's and PSA buys barrels from them.
I posted a pretty comprehensive list of US forging companies and which manufacturers use which a few years ago but I don't have immediate access to it right now.

[Tangentabacus]

I knew it was different than FN but I just always thought it was maybe a subsidiary of the actual gun company. Good to know. Though I'd inform OP a little but you're a better source for sure.

[madmo44mag]

Watch this video and it will really help clear things up on who makes what.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPDtI_UZ0Do

[Old Ugly]

I should have specified that I was talking about complete lowers. And I do appreciate you guys making recommendations for other brands but from now on can we just stick to the 3 specified brands?

[CTS]

Watch this video and it will really help clear things up on who makes what.

I'm sorry but the guy in this video is totally clueless. All 7075-T6 receivers are not the same. Just because they are the same grade of aluminum does not mean that the holes are drilled in the right spots and everything is machined to the correct specificatons. Even if they were all bought from the same forge, which they are not, it is the company who does the machine work after that who makes the real difference in whether or not you get a quality receiver. In general terms, yes many of the receivers you buy all come from the same place but there are somewhere in the area of a dozen or more forges who make the raw forgings. There are fewer machining companies who turn out the finished products and they will put whoever's rollmark on them that is willing to pay for it. They will even put your own design on it if you send it to them and are willing to pay for what ever their minimum order is. To say that any 7075-T6 receiver is as good as the next is pure nonsense.

Here is that list I spoke of earlier and this in not even complete;

Offset Square is: Brass Aluminum Forging
LMT is: No Forge Marks, but marked LMT or L is: LMT
AF is: Alcoa Forge
C AF is: Colt Alco Forge
A (splintered) = Anchor Harvey Aluminum
C MB is: Colt / Mueller Brass
Cardinal’s head (stylized bird head) is: Cardinal Forge
CH is: Colt Harvey Aluminum
Crosshairs w/"AR" is: ArmaLite
CK is: Colt / Kaiser Aluminum
CM is: Colt / Martin Marietta
D (stylized) is: Diemaco
DK is: Diemaco / Kaiser Aluminum
E is: Emco
EK is: EMCO/Kaiser
E MB is: EMCO/Mueller Brass
FA is: FNMI / Anchor Harvey
FK is: FNMI / Kaiser Aluminum
FM is: FN/Martin Marietta
FMB is: FNMI / Mueller Brass
LK is: LAR / Kaiser Aluminum
LM is: LAR / Martin Marietta
M "diamond" is: Mueller Industries
PA is: Capco / Anchor Harvey
PM is: Capco / Martin Marietta
Square (symbol) is: Brass Aluminum

M-16 markings:

CAF Colt / Alcoa Forge
CH Colt / Harvey Aluminum (1st Colt Forgings)
CM Colt / Martin Marietta
DK Diemaco / Kaiser
FK, FS, BK, DK, EK, FK, AF, CW, AA, FS Bushmaster
LK FN / Kaiser
LM LAR / Martin Marietta (Army Spares Contract)
“Splintered A” F: FNMI Anchor Harvey“Splintered A” F: FNMI Anchor Harvey
“Splintered A” C: Colt Anchor Harvey
Splintered A Olympic Arms? (Anchor Harvey)


My list of verified upper receiver forge markings used by AR-15 upper manufactuers/sellers


DSA - Cardinal forge
Rock River - Cardinal forge
Delton - Cerro forge, square
DPMS - Cerro
Spikes Tactical - Cerro
Stag - Cardinal, Cerro
LWRC- splintered A
Para USA - ZM
Knight’s Armament - Cerro (keyhole)
Wilson Combat - splintered A
Double Star - Cerro
Smith &Wesson - Cerro
Daniel Defense - Cerro
Sabre Defense - Cerro?
Remington - Cerro
BCM - Cerro, square
Bushmaster - Cerro
Stag - splintered A, Cardinal
J&T Distributing (Doublestar) - Cerro, C
CMMG - Cerro
Colt M4 - Cerro (C keyhole), square, Cardinal (“C“ bird‘s head), C AF

[Fishbed77]

You're buying basically the same thing if you go with Stag, Spikes, S&W. I could be wrong but I think that the PSA stuff is made by F&N... I know their barrels are.

PSA's lowers are made by AeroPrecision or LW Schneider. I think they may vary in who does the original forging. The ones I have have Cerro and Anchor Harvey forge marks.

[CTS]

PSA's lowers are made by AeroPrecision or LW Schneider. I think they may vary in who does the original forging. The ones I have have Cerro and Anchor Harvey forge marks.

Yes! The Aero Precision are serial number prefixed AP and the Scneider are prefixed with LW. One is low shelf and one is high shelf. I don't remember right off which is which.

[Tangentabacus]

Interesting stuff.

And regarding OP's request: We have definetely gotten off track but that's because we've already answered your question pretty much. Get what's cheapest or whichever one you prefer. Besides roll marks the three brands you've listed are all gtg. Stag is the only one that no one has given negative remarks about yet though.

[Skans]

Forged or billet 7075-T6 Receivers - my opinion is that they are basically all the same. Show me just one example of an upper or lower receiver that failed because it was made from a billet rather than forged or forged rather than billet, and then maybe I'll listen.

As far as reliability goes, with an AR, its all about the barrel, barrel extension, bolt and maybe the hammer. You can diddle around with the trigger parts to lighten it to your taste.

So my advice is - buy the receiver set that you find most aesthetically pleasing, or most economical - whatever your fancy. Because the rest of the crap about what or how the receivers were made, or who made them (as long as they are somewhat reputable), doesn't make a hill-o-beans difference.

And, if you ever shoot enough ammo out of your AR to actually wear out an upper or lower receiver.......then swap it out for another for the cost of a couple handfuls of boxes of 5.56 ammo.

[kraigwy]

When push comes to shove, what lower doesn't matter, assuming you have a good trigger.

It's the upper that makes an AR.

[CTS]

Forged or billet 7075-T6 Receivers - my opinion is that they are basically all the same. Show me just one example of an upper or lower receiver that failed because it was made from a billet rather than forged or forged rather than billet, and then maybe I'll listen.

As far as reliability goes, with an AR, its all about the barrel, barrel extension, bolt and maybe the hammer. You can diddle around with the trigger parts to lighten it to your taste.

I don't think forged vs billet was ever the question. The fact is that many billet receivers were machined from a block of forged aluminum. Yes, it is all about the barrel, barrel extension, trigger etc but, if your upper and lower pivot or takedown pins don't line up to the point that the bolt will not slide into the receiver extension then you have a light weight club or a **** poor boat paddle. That is the point I was trying to make when I said that they are not all created equal just because they all use the same base metal. I have seen this happen on more than one occasion.

When push comes to shove, what lower doesn't matter, assuming you have a good trigger.

It's the upper that makes an AR.

Again, I agree fully as long as the upper and lower mate together properly and all the holes for said trigger and safety etc are drilled properly.

[Skans]

if your upper and lower pivot or takedown pins don't line up to the point that the bolt will not slide into the receiver extension then you have a light weight club or a **** poor boat paddle. That is the point I was trying to make when I said that they are not all created equal just because they all use the same base metal. I have seen this happen on more than one occasion.

Yes, the metal isn't everything. This is why I would only put an AR together with a matched receiver set made by the same (reputable, whichever one you pick) company.

[CTS]

This is why I would only put an AR together with a matched receiver set made by the same (reputable, whichever one you pick) company.

Not really even necessary to use a matched set, although that is what I prefer to do with my builds but, the key word is reputable or quality. As long as you have that, any lower should fit any upper. Color match is a different story. I have seen upper and lower from two different companies who are known for high quality products and have a slight difference in shades of finish.

[Tangentabacus]

My franken AR's PSA/Aero lower and Fortis upper fits together better than my matched Colt M4 receivers do... As a matter of fact my Colt is noticeably looser fitting than my franken AR that I just built.

Not sure why but an interesting fact to add to the conversation.

[droptrd]

Complete lowers? go with the best deal of the 3. I will say the RRA lower receiver has a larger bevel on the mag well. Its a nice touch IMO

[Fishbed77]

My franken AR's PSA/Aero lower and Fortis upper fits together better than my matched Colt M4 receivers do... As a matter of fact my Colt is noticeably looser fitting than my franken AR that I just built.

This is my experience as well. I have a PSA/Spikes combination that fits better (and looks better) than most any Colt 6920s I've seen.