First gun for young hunter.

[mikenbarb]

This is to answer a statement of a .410 being an "EXPERTS GUN" on another forum page. If you were looking to buy a first gun for your daughter, What would it be and in what gauge? Taking into consideration that my daughter is around 80 lbs and cant carry a large gun with alot of weight. I am also concerned about the flinch factor involved with larger gauges vs. smaller gauges. I would like to hear how many of you have started yourself or a child with a .410 gauge. I understand its half the range and pellet count of larger shells but in my eyes it teaches the responsibility to take your time and be sure of your shot.

[brockgl]

Not sure about the .410, but my dad bought me my first shotgun when I was 12 years old, and it was a single shot 12 guage. It had a lot of kick to it, but I was always able to handle it well enough. I wasn't a big kid, but I'm guessing I definitely weighed more than 80 pounds. I would say a .410 would probably be fine, you would probably be fine with anything though (.410, 20ga, even 12ga). I see very little women shooting 12s for trap and skeet ALL the time, and they don't even seem to be feeling any recoil. If you teach her how to stand and shoot it properly, she could probably handle any non-magnum load just fine. But yes, a .410 would definitely be a good way to start.

[DonR101395]

A .22 rifle and a .410 or 20ga shotgun single shot. They promote marksmanship without breaking the bank and aren't overly brutal.

[Scattergun Bob]

Glad to comment on this one. First, thanks for keeping the shooting sports going, to folks like you we all owe a great deal of respect.

Sure, my daddy started me on a Winchester single shot .410 bore. I would like to say that it taught me patients and one shot hits, that would be a lie. It taught me how to load the old girl FASTER! It is a great platform for a starting shooter, quail, rabbits, and dove dropped well, it was a little light for ringnecks an very problematical for waterfowl, understand that was mostly because I was in a REAL hurry to pull the trigger in those days.

Good Luck to yours & Be Safe

[lon371]

This is my daughter on her first deer hunt 2003. She is small framed and didnt like shooting the 12 or 20. She used a Mossberg .410 from a tree stand. Buck was taken at 15 yards. She also uses it for squirrel hunting. The Mossberg she used is now going on 5 years old with out issues. Good luck.

Dont tell her it wont work.

[2afreedom]

I would take a hard look at the New England single shots in either 12 or 20 guage. Unless your new shooter is really recoil shy the lighter loads won't be much different between the 20 and the .410 you mentioned and you will get more versatility and the abililty to use it for a wider variety of hunting purposes. I have fond memories of rabbits and squirrels I took with my little break open 20 guage as a youth. These guns are inexpensive but they are built like tanks and are very accurate for the price. You have to cock the hammer back to fire the gun so you will be able to easily tell if he or she is "locked and loaded" in the field. The single shot will teach the importance of accuracy and will make it safer to learn with. As a bonus you will not cry if you scratch the finish or drop the gun in the field due to the low price tag. Happy hunting.

[SilentHitz]

My 1st was with a .410...and a teenie tiny spike. Bet she's as proud of that one as her Dad is. You know you were smiling the whole time...admit it Like Scattergun Bob, my 1st dove hunt was rather comical though. I went through 2 boxes of shells, and since the doves felt so safe in my area...they were circling me like buzzards! That changed in short time, and my 410 Mossy bolt served me well. Thanx for a kewl pic Ion 371...nice to see parents taking the time to tech their kids about firearms safety and responsible hunting. Edit: before the grammar nazi's get me...Tech= teach...so shoot me, it's early LOL

[94bluerat]

I'll ditto 2afreedom. My boys have the NE arms 20 gauge single. Very safe and light enough for a 60lb kid to carry. They dropped doves this year, it works.

Good luck

[Boncrayon]

The first gun I received around that age for Christmas was a single shot 20guage with hammer cock. It was a Stevens that I passed along to my son. The 20 guage is a great first gun, and you can use "light loads" to reduce the kick. Also, adding a recoil butt pad will soften it even more. What fun I had with that shotgun!

[castnblast]

My first was a 20ga 1100 when I was 9. The gas auto really cut down on the recoil. I was 60lbs at the time...

[olddrum1]

I disagree with a fine platform for a young adult to start with for several different situations.

It is a good gun for a kid to shoot popcans with. Maybe slow clays, and stationary targets. If you are going to be doing any hunting I would go with a 20.

A twenty will have twice the shot, twice the powder, and twice the distance with pattern. If you pattern a twenty and 410 at a set distance, say 40 yards the twenty will put twice the shot in a given circle. If you have ever patterned a 410 at 30 yards you start to wonder how anyone ever hits anything with them. You will have holes in your pattern you can throw a dinner plate throuh with the 410. Please go out and try it. That is enough to sell anyone that is going to take their kids out hunting.

The twenty will shoot about twice as much as the 410 for the buck. The young adult will get twice the experience for the buck. The twenty is the better of the two for birds. If you do not think that a 410 is an experts gun, Take it out dove hunting on about the second week of season. Hunting rabbits, yes it has a place there, squirrels no not my favorite (22). Twenty gauge will cover all of the above.

I applaud any one that takes their kid out and shoots with them (B&M). I truthfully think that for the above reasons the Twenty is a much better gun to start a kid on.

I do not profess to be an expert on this, I do not have a PHD in it. About the only thing that might qualify me to even make any kind of statement is that I have been lucky enough to have been able to have the chance to own shotguns for a long, long, time. I do enjoy shooting 410s, they break you of all your bad habits, but I think that a kid would enjoy much more the shooting if they hit what they shoot which would happen with the twenty more than a 410.

[olddrum1]

I forgot to throw in that with my kids started with twenty two rifles. My son went to a twenty gauge shotgun and my daughter went to Volleyball and fastpitch softball. The shotgun was alot cheaper. Oh yeah, I am the one that said that the 410 was an experts gun.

[lon371]

" My son went to a twenty gauge shotgun "
My son also jumped from .22 to a 20, at the same time he is not my little girl. My daughter did not like the 20s kick(reguardless how light) I was given a .410 for her to try, she was ok with it.

We dont have the $ to put into Semi autos, so pumps or singles were the options.

Knowing it required more practice and effort, she still chose the .410. We do not do much wing shooting, so shot pattern is not a big issue. This would be a factor for some who do.

Since we ^^^^are talking about a 20 is so much better than a .410, why stop there. A 12 in a semi auto platform would put out a better pattern, much further. Wouldn't the 12 auto kick about the same as a 20?

[FL-Flinter]

I'll agree with the 20ga as well because with the proper loads it's going to do everything she needs. Ammo is lower cost and the 20ga is much more forgiving than 28ga, 32ga & .410"

What I disagree with is getting her a single bbl and especially a low-cost single. I've owned many of them over the years and they are not the slightest bit user-friendly. They have no balance. They're heavy compared to a high-quality single. The don't shoudler & swing well especially for a smaller size shooter and most produce more felt recoil than a lighter high-quality gun. For those reasons you are best to invest a little more money and get her a good quality gas operated repeater.

Be persistent in explaining the safety and operational charactoeristics of the semi-auto, afterall, if you trust her to handle a loaded gun, then obviously she is trustworthy enough to handle a repeater. The learning curve may be a little longer concerning the action and operation but not by much, we're talking minutes because all the other safety issues remain the same no matter what type of firearm it is.

Before you buy anything, be sure to inquire about how the action is made. Those guns with parts of the action extending into the stock will limit the amount you can have the stock shortened. Some companies offer youth-size stocks but may not advertise them - ask before sawing. Another thing to consider is the dead weight of the gun, like anything else, the weight varies considerably from brand to brand and sometimes from model to model within the same brand - get the lightest one you can because fatigue and getting the crap beat out of them from recoil will be the quickest turn-off for any young shooter. You give a kid a heavy single bbl that bites their cheek on every shot and I'll bet you they won't be the slightest bit interested in continuing to accompany you to the range. You give the kid a light gas auto with very little recoil that swings well and is comfortably light, you'll have a shootin' buddy for life.

Put yourself in the kids position. How would you feel if the only thing you could go shooting with was an old 10 pound Win. model 70 chambered in .375 H&H mag that beat the crap out of you with each shot....how often would you be willing to go shooting only to end-up feeling like some heavy-weight boxer took his anger out on you? If you've forgotten what how getting your face busted by a H&R/NEF single feels like, feel free to come over and put a few slugs through my 500moss just be sure to bring your own ice and pain killers. You may not think the cheek slap or recoil is bad from the cheap singles but consider the fact that someone smaller in size than you doesn't have the same amount of meat you do covering their cheek bone and their arms are lighter and there shoulder is not padded as well either. The extra 2-4 pounds of weight in your arms makes a considerable difference in the amount of force transfered to your face & shoulder.

[Holman]

My first gun was a .22 that I got for Christmas when I was 13. I think that the .410 would be OK

[olddrum1]

To a person, all the female trap shooters that I know shoot 12s. One girl is about the same weight as the above girl. She shoots a modified BT-99 Micro. I think that might be a little out of the price range were talking here though. Some of the autos have the weight down quite a bit. I think Benneli and the old Franchis offered some very light 12s and 20s. Again we are talking price range but both guns would last quite some time.

[ssilicon]

Perhaps something along the lines of .243 Winchester fired out of a bolt action? Should be good for game up to and including deer. Very flat shooting round, so slap a scope on zeroed at 100 and voila!

[BigJimP]

Upper body strength, length of arms - is a big factor on young kids ( boys and girls ). For my granddaughters - the first gun they shoot - I try to keep around 7 lbs - and make it very comfortable for them on recoil.

A 28ga is much better than a .410 - Remington makes some semi-autos, etc that are a good fit for a young kid and nice and light. Keep the velocity of the loads light too - under 1200 fps if at all possible / maybe 1150 fps.

The other thing I would consider is a 20ga semi-auto but get some reloads or some light loads down at 3/4 oz and 1150 fps but not over 1200 fps. Again go with a shorter gun - something light - Remington semi-auto fits the bill again. I also like the Benelli super sport - its carbon fibre, looks flashy - and the kids like to shoot it. It is a soft shooting gun as well - but it won't cycle loads under 1200 fps - but I usually drop them down to 3/40z vs the traditional 7/8oz of a 20ga. I think a single shot is a waste of time - and the kids don't feel like they're really part of the "club" so to speak. Most of all make sure they have fun / nothing else matters.

The first place I take them is to a skeet field - on a nice warm day - and let them really get used to it. Make sure they have a vest that fits, etc.

[mikenbarb]

As stated in other thread. She will only be using this for squirrels and rabbit. and every now and then I will toss her a few clays. We dont have alot of species of small game in New Jersey unless you pay a fortune to join a bird club. And the State stocked areas are a war zone and I wouldnt even think of bringing her till she was a little older and was able to handle the idiots shooting all around you.(sometimes at you) Im not concerned about the price of shells due to the fact that she might shoot 2 boxes at the most during the season. I think for these reasons along with the lighter recoil it would be a perfect gun for her. And I have talked to alot of hunters and clay shooters(experts) and they all laughed when I told them that someone had stated that a .410 is an experts gun.

[olddrum1]

You really have not shot many 410 rounds in competition have you.

[mikenbarb]

Olddrum1, I was at the skeet range 2 days ago and ran a 48/50 with a .410 that I borrow from a friend quite often. I also shot 21/25, 25 straight, 18/25. The worst I did that day was the 18/25 so I guess you could say I shoot quite often. I average about 6 days a month with clays and 4-6 days a month with the rifle. And just an fyi, I have never heard anyone consider the .410 an "experts gun" and most shooters I know just consider it less forgiving. And I have seen many novice shooters pick one up and shoot quite well with it. If a youngster never shot a 12ga then they wouldnt know the difference. This is why I tend to lean towards a small gauge shotgun for their first. Mainly because it teaches them patience and to be sure they have a good clean shot before just blasting away. And then when they finally get a 12 or 20ga. its a piece of cake to hit something when they shoot at it. And if the .410 was for "experts" then almost every gun maker wouldnt make them in youth models. They would make them with special little warning tags that state "Warning, EXPERT GUN ONLY. If not an expert shooter you should not shoot,handle, or touch in any way that could effect the thoughts of some that a .410 is for experts only." And I think their wouldnt be alot of memories of when Johny or sally killed his or her first rabbit with grandpas old .410. And one thing I forgot, There will be a alot less pellets to chew on to break my teeth

[bobn]

a 410 single shot gun is almost certain to send a new shooter packing. you want all young shooters to achieve some sucess right away. a 20 guage in a remington 870 youth is both decent looking and will enable hits sooner.
....i am 54 and like all kids back when we were glad to shoot a worn out bb gun. youth of today will want sucess and good looks/pride of ownership in any thing they try. stack the deck so she can suceed.
....ps i still own a 410 but it is a wingmaster lol. bobn

[hoot619]

I bought 2 identical 20 ga singles in the early 60's for my brothers. One kicked like a mule and the other was ok. Please shoot it yourself first to see how the recoil is. A good soft pad that is flexible, Some of the pads are too damn stiff.
You want them to enjoy there first shots with it. Not to be scared of it. Hold it tight to the shoulder not loose. My wife shot one of them it was the kicker and it knocked her on her butt. She had it tight at first but a dog was in the way and when she reshouldered I didn't see it I didn't help I was rolling on the ground LOL. It took me a long time before I got her to shoot again. By putting stock on my chin and shooting a little m-1 carbine. That told and showed her it don't kick. We want the young ones or first timers to enjoy themselves. I am in the process of getting my sx-1 ready for my grandson. Youth stocks and it may even have to be cut more so a darn good recoil pad will fit. Remember we want them to enjoy the occasion and it may bring others into our shooting world.
Ken

[45Dave]

Mikenbarb, sounds like you are a pretty good shooter and picked up a pretty good .410. I am one of the get a 28 gauge or 20 gauge crew. At our local range a group of us were having the discussion, .410 or something else to start people with. When one of the more experience shooters pointed out a big part of the problem is many .410 guns have terrible patterns and have to be tweeked in. One of the fellas had his off the shelf .410 (will not say brand) and the experience fella brough out his competion .410 gun. We walked to the pattern board and what a difference. The off the shelf was terrible full of holes very irregular. The old timer with the tricked out .410 stated over many years he has found most 410's to have pattern problems like we found. The comp gun was a good pattern you would like to see. So one of the big factors is many .410s have terrible patterns unless you do some work, the 28 gauge guns we have patterned over the years have been outstanding even better than 20 gauges however the 20 gauge is cheap to buy and many choises.
What ever, you are lucky to have a daughter who is interested in shooting. congrads bud.

[olddrum1]

Mikeandbarb, I apolobize if I have upset you. If you had taken the time to read the subsequent post you would realize that the quote came from a Mossburg Rep at an NRA convention and I find it to be quite accurate. I have looked up as you suggested two of the three major gunmakes and provided the web address for their junior and micro guns. I think that Winchester at this time is not making a 410. I would add Mossburg but the measurements on their 410s have only a fraction of an inch difference between the fullsize and the youth.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...express_jr.asp

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...12&type_id=225

I apoligize for not finding any websites that offered any 410 youth guns though. I thought that Remington made the express in a 410 youth but they have changed that to a twenty. Browning did the same with their micro bps. Its in twenty now. I wonder why they did that?